Thoughts on Gen 5 Vintage Air Install

[pjmoreland]

I installed a Gen 5 Vintage Air Sure Fit system on my truck over the last couple weeks, so I figured I'd give a report on how it went.

I bought it from Speed Shop Store. They had the best price I could find. I had to order over the phone because their website doesn't let you select all of the necessary details. I was expecting a long wait, but I ended up receiving it in four weeks.

I used a center piece cut from an original A/C dash as the template for the center vent. I noticed that the template they provide for the center vent opening puts it maybe 1/4" higher than stock. Later I figured out that they probably did that because the duct adapter piece that sits behind the dash interferes with a stock radio. I spent a bunch of time shaving down that piece to get it to fit, but it is still sort of munched against the top front edge of the radio body. If I had known this was going to be the case, I would have gone with an OE vent with the following Vintage Air pieces they include in kits for trucks that had OE A/C: 49163-LCI and 49170-LCI

I went with the side vents that were included with the kit. The templates place them so close to the edge of the dash that a structural piece of metal on the inner edge of the dash gets in the way of the vents. I used a Dremel with a disc to shave down that section.

I have a 1997 l31 Vortec SBC with the dipstick on the passenger side. I was concerned about the dipstick interfering with the compressor, so I searched and searched for a shorter dipstick and tube, but I could not find one. Initially I thought about orienting the compressor with the fittings facing sideways, but the lines didn't like that because of the way the fittings are clocked. I ended up bending the dipstick tube so that it runs to the inside of the compressor. I used a Gates 7570 belt, which was intentionally longer than a shorter 7565 belt I was planning on using. This provided enough room to attach the A/C charging hose.

The A/C belt rubbed on the lower radiator hose. Installing a Gates 20694 solved that problem.

[pjmoreland]

The installation instructions recommended putting a layer of insulation on the inside of the firewall, but the kit did not include the insulation. I ended up buying a $30 roll of insulation just so I'd have one little piece. It would be nice if they included the insulation with the kit. It would probably cost them $2.

It was very difficult to get the main assembly up underneath the dash by following the instructions. It was simply too big to fit past the bottom edge of the dash by a little more than an inch even with the controller removed. I ended up removing the lower two screws from the firewall attachment bracket and had to forcefully shove it past the bottom edge of the dash.

The two lines that pass through the core support would be much easier to install with the grille removed. I bent a gentle curve in the long straight section of each one and fed them through the hole from the front to the back. I straightened out the bends afterward.

I didn't like the idea of having two Walmart-style crimped on connectors on the trinary switch right in the front of the engine compartment, so I went to a wrecking yard and looked around for something stock that would fit. I ended up finding one on an '80s S-10.

Vintage Air was very stingy with the amount of ducting they included in this kit. There was absolutely no extra. I had to really stretch one of the pieces to make it fit.

It was quite difficult to attach the ducting to the center vent. I removed the radio and vent after struggling with it for a while. I recommend attaching the ducting to the center vent before installing the center vent.

[pjmoreland]

The blanking plate that attaches to the outside of the firewall is held on with 10 screws (only four lined up with existing holes). Only 9 screws were included in the kit, and that's how it was marked on the materials list. This is just a mistake on their part. It is a flange-head 1/4-20 x 3/4 screw with serrations on the flange. I wanted all 10 screws to match. I ended up visiting several stores before I found an exact match at Home Depot of all places.

I thought the kit was missing o-rings for the heater core connections, but I found them later in a separate part of the kit. That was after I had gone to the auto parts store and dug through their selection to find a match.

Both heater core connections are 5/8", but the return connection on my radiator is 3/4". I ended up buying a Vintage Air 099010 molded hose that is different sizes on both ends. After I received it, I discovered that it is just a Dayco 87616 hose with a Vintage Air sticker placed over the top of the Dayco sticker. For that, I got to pay $13 extra.

The center vent included in the kit doesn't match the curvature of the dash very well. I will be looking for a NOS unit to take its place.

These are all minor issues, but collectively they ate up a lot of my time. This was an ordinary install with no custom features, and it still took me many hours to complete it. Hopefully I will save others some time.

By the way, I installed the round cover backwards on my firewall. I made the assumption that the larger bulge was there to align it with the hole, and I painted just the one side. I ran out of paint, so I just went with it. I had to bend the bar that holds it in to make it work.

One other thing I'll mention is that Vortec heads are missing a coolant hole that would normally allow circulation before the thermostat opens on older SBC heads. Because of this, the usual solution is to add a thermostat bypass hose between the front of the intake manifold and the water pump. I didn't want to do that for aesthetic reasons, so I drilled the missing hole in my passenger side head when I was building my engine in preparation for A/C install. Non-A/C trucks use the heater core for thermostat bypass.

I will say I'm loving having A/C in my truck in the middle of the summer!

[Accelo]

Any issues installing the drip hose from the bottom of the cab air unit?

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by Accelo

Any issues installing the drip hose from the bottom of the cab air unit?

It took me a while to figure out how that thing was supposed to pass through the floor. The elbow gets inserted through the hole from underneath, and then the interior hose gets pushed on. The barbs on the elbow make the hose too fat to fit through the hole, so this arrangement holds the hose in place.

[SRU1436]

Originally Posted by pjmoreland

It took me a while to figure out how that thing was supposed to pass through the floor. The elbow gets inserted through the hole from underneath, and then the interior hose gets pushed on. The barbs on the elbow make the hose too fat to fit through the hole, so this arrangement holds the hose in place.

Good job on the installation. I put one in my chevelle last summer, I removed the entire dash. As for the drip hose. I used a bulk head fitting, which I thought was a better option than what vintage air gave.

AC is awesome.

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by SRU1436

Good job on the installation. I put one in my chevelle last summer, I removed the entire dash. As for the drip hose. I used a bulk head fitting, which I thought was a better option than what vintage air gave.

AC is awesome.

That's a cleaner solution. Also, I plan to install a longer hose so that the water isn't running down the back of the inner fender.

[weasel29gm]

Great info, I'm looking at the underdash vents instead of stock location.My reason don't want to cut the dash, so after your stock install do you think some of the issues you had would be involved with this setup? I've researched this and noticed most goes with the in dash vents, but I want to be different lol. Thanks for the good job and info!!

[cjoenny89]

so in this kit you remove the outside heater core box and fan? This gets relocated inside the truck?

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by weasel29gm

Great info, I'm looking at the underdash vents instead of stock location.My reason don't want to cut the dash, so after your stock install do you think some of the issues you had would be involved with this setup? I've researched this and noticed most goes with the in dash vents, but I want to be different lol. Thanks for the good job and info!!

Under dash vents sound like an interesting option. I doubt they would make the installation easier or harder

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by cjoenny89

so in this kit you remove the outside heater core box and fan? This gets relocated inside the truck?

That is correct. Both the heater core and the A/C evaporator are located in a single box under the dash.

[MikeB]

A little off-topic here but want to add my experiences with V/A.

I've had a V/A system in my 69 C10 since 1998. Wow, that's 25 years ago this month! It was initially cable-actuated using my non-factory A/C control panel. I actually cut holes holes in the dash for all three factory vents, without making a scratch. It was good to be young and fearless!

My biggest issue with my older unit is the design of the inside "box" that contains the evaporator and heater core. The blower moves the air from right to left, which causes 75% of the volume out through the left ball vent and the left side of the center vent. In other words, the air doesn't like going around corners, and the passenger doesn't get nearly as much cold air as the driver. Also, the air valves (doors) don't close snugly.

My system also has all four hoses running into the passenger compartment. But I see V/A has taken a hint from Old Air, and their latest systems use hard lines that poke though the firewall, meaning hose connections are in the engine compartment and easy to reach.

The summer after my initial installation, I had some cooling issues so I drove the truck down to San Antonio. The owner, Jack Chisenhall, gave me a shop tour and then handed me off to an R&D engineer. They actually installed a heavier duty fan clutch and evacuated and re-charged the system, using 1-2 oz. more than the instructions called for. They also they gave me a factory A/C control panel, which made for a much better setup. And the only thing they charged me for was the fan clutch.

It's been a reliable unit other than having a couple leaky Schrader valves, leaky heater valve, and a leaky hose end (after 20+ years). And it usually needs a couple ounces of R134a every other spring.

All that said, Old Air is 45 minutes away from me, and I really like their servo control panel that's designed specifically for our trucks. So one of these days I may buy an in-cab kit from them.

BTW, no issues with my passenger side dipstick:

[pjmoreland]

That sure is encouraging to hear that your kit has been going strong for 25 years now.

The heater hoses were quite difficult to push onto the firewall connections because the lines are not supported at the firewall. They just flex inward if you push on them. A second set of hands are needed to support the lines from inside the cab. I didn't have a helper available, so I used various pieces of wood jammed in there to support the lines.

I am definitely noticing the same thing about the center vent. The air comes out of it at about a 45 degree angle to the driver side. seems like GM should have designed the vent to adjust left/right instead of up/down.

Vintage Air does make a control panel for our trucks. I declined to go that route due to the $275 price tag. I kind of like having the original control panel in my truck. The levers are super easy to move now that they are only moving the sensors that are attached in place of the original mechanical cables.

https://www.vintageair.com/custom/pr....php?pn=473080

[54blackhornet]

Boy you must have been smiling the first time you drove with A/C ! Beautiful work I must say !

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by pjmoreland

The heater hoses were quite difficult to push onto the firewall connections because the lines are not supported at the firewall. They just flex inward if you push on them. A second set of hands are needed to support the lines from inside the cab. I didn't have a helper available, so I used various pieces of wood jammed in there to support the lines.

Reminds me that I need to replace the heater hoses on my truck because they're as old as dirt. It's really nasty up under the dash where the hoses attach to the copper tubes. Lots of green corrosion. Have to make sure the hoses and heater core are totally cleared of coolant, because the last thing I need is coolant on the carpet and foam pad.

Vintage Air does make a control panel for our trucks. I declined to go that route due to the $275 price tag. I kind of like having the original control panel in my truck. The levers are super easy to move now that they are only moving the sensors that are attached in place of the original mechanical cables.

That deal where the levers control rheostats looks kind of cheesy to me. But, yes, the OE panel looks nicer. Lots nicer considering the price of the electronic panel!

Hey PJ, I'm liking those stainless headers you recommended. They still look like the day I installed them, and the ball & socket flanges are really cool. Had a shop run 2-1/2" pipes for another 2-3 ft before connecting to the 2-1/4" pipes that were already in place. Hey, every little bit helps!

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by 54blackhornet

Boy you must have been smiling the first time you drove with A/C ! Beautiful work I must say !

Thank you, and I sure was!

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by MikeB

Hey PJ, I'm liking those stainless headers you recommended. They still look like the day I installed them, and the ball & socket flanges are really cool. Had a shop run 2-1/2" pipes for another 2-3 ft before connecting to the 2-1/4" pipes that were already in place. Hey, every little bit helps!

I'm glad to hear it!

I agree that the rheostats look cheesy, but I think I'll put up with them for $275, at least for a while.

[MikeB]

What does the V/A glove box look like, and can you install and remove it from the front side?

[pjmoreland]

Originally Posted by MikeB

What does the V/A glove box look like, and can you install and remove it from the front side?

It's made of thick plastic. It is significantly shallower than the stock glovebox, so now most of the stuff that was in my glovebox is in the storage compartment under my buddy bucket center seat. It did install from the front.

[pjmoreland]

Here's a photo of the glovebox from underneath. You can see why it has to be so shallow.

[MikeB]

Here's mine from the 1998 V/A kit. I'm almost certain it installed from the front, but I can't get it out. Wanted to remove it for better access to the control panel.

[pjmoreland]

I had to slide it in on the left side first, then it pushed in and slid to the right. This was mainly because the glovebox door light mounting tab gets in the way if you try to slide it in on the right first.

[pjmoreland]

Also, I had to remove the glovebox striker plate from the top of the opening.

[Extended Power]

Could anyone tell me, or show me with a picture, where the studs are used?
I’m assuming they are to mount the unit to the plate/firewall, but I’m not sure what bolts or studs, are used where.
Every drawing in their instructions show different bolts/screws.

Thank you.

[pjmoreland]

If I remember correctly, there are three studs. Two are longer and one is shorter. The shorter one goes in the evaporator bracket that attaches to the firewall. This stud is just temporary though. You use it to hold the firewall plate in place while you align the hardlines to the four holes in the firewall plate. Then, when installing the evaporator under the dash, the stud helps to guide the evaporator into position by inserting the stud through the correct hole in the firewall plate. Later, that stud gets removed, and it's replaced with a bolt that threads in from the engine compartment side.

The other two studs are for attaching the center vent to the dash.