Tbi swap build thread

[cjracing15]

Thanks .

[rfmaster]

Any further updates on your conversion (all done I suppose) ???

//RF

[cjracing15]

Originally Posted by rfmaster

Any further updates on your conversion (all done I suppose) ???

//RF

Not done yet I have run into a little problem with it. I have had it running and it ran great but for some reason It has stopped gitting fuel to the injectors and since I have went backed to work I have not had any time to get back and check anything. It has a brand new pump in the tank so I don't know why it has quit but I HOPE to get back to it Sat. If I can stop having to running calls long enuff. I am a hvac thec for a rather large contractor for this area and we have been swamped with calls since I got back. (Globlal Warming my A**.) This is the coldest it has been around here in at least five years.

Anyway I will have an update when I get time to work on it. Thanks for asking. ,Jamie

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by cjracing15

Not done yet I have run into a little problem with it. I have had it running and it ran great but for some reason It has stopped gitting fuel to the injectors and since I have went backed to work I have not had any time to get back and check anything. It has a brand new pump in the tank so I don't know why it has quit but I HOPE to get back to it Sat. If I can stop having to running calls long enuff. I am a hvac thec for a rather large contractor for this area and we have been swamped with calls since I got back. (Globlal Warming my A**.) This is the coldest it has been around here in at least five years.

Anyway I will have an update when I get time to work on it. Thanks for asking. ,Jamie

You can verify that FP is functioning couple of ways.

1) When you cycle ignition key from off to run ECM goes through a POST routine during which FP relay is energized for about 2-3 seconds (you shouls be able to hear it run) and subsequently turn off. If all other test check out SES goes from solid - blinks off and turns back on solid until engine starts (after cranking). During cranking FP should be energized.

It is rare, but 7747 ECM have been know to loose FP relay circuit driver transistor (2N2907 ) when FP relay is shorted to ground.

2)To verify if FP is functional you can force FP relay into a test operation via bypass, fuel system prime pig tail at the FP relay socket.

[cjracing15]

Originally Posted by rfmaster

You can verify that FP is functioning couple of ways.

1) When you cycle ignition key from off to run ECM goes through a POST routine during which FP relay is energized for about 2-3 seconds (you shouls be able to hear it run) and subsequently turn off. If all other test check out SES goes from solid - blinks off and turns back on solid until engine starts (after cranking). During cranking FP should be energized.

It is rare, but 7747 ECM have been know to loose FP relay circuit driver transistor (2N2907 ) when FP relay is shorted to ground.

2)To verify if FP is functional you can force FP relay into a test operation via bypass, fuel system prime pig tail at the FP relay socket.

Well the Fuel pump is running. I get gas up to the throtle body on the supply line but it just spits gas out the injector. I can pour gas in the tb and it will run untill it runs out of gas???

[DirtyLarry]

Jamie, I was wondering about your project as well. Keep us posted. I bet whatever is wrong turns out to be something simple.

You're right it is cold here! I am in Nashville this week and I was surprised how cold it is here. I didn’t know TN got this damn cold. Good business for a HVAC tech though!

[cjracing15]

I will keep you guys posted I promise. Worked 13 &1/2 hours Friday, 9 on monday, 14 Tuesday, 9 Today. I didn't work this much last summer . It shoud slow down starting tomarow. It is going to be up in the high 50's.

I hope it is, I need a break. My hair is turning more gray by the hour at this rate .

[cjracing15]

That is a great diagram RF. Thanks for the time.

[gchemist]

Here a good website source for TBI swaps: http://users.sfo.com/~eagle/howell.html

[408cuda]

Hey Guys, been working late and haven't had time to post anything. I wired it up as shown here, not sure if I forgot something but this should about cover it. Forgive the grade school artwork. All of the other ECM and sensor wires are untouched if not noted, everything is hooked up as it was other than the o2 sensor, plan to wire a 3 or 4 wire but probably not until after we fire it (will use the 1 wire temporarily)

The truck has an electric speedo and no VSS buffer that I can find and I traced the wiring under the donor dash to the cluster. We are trying to make the 88 speedo work in the 59 so that would help put that fire out. Will I need to do anything with the VSS wires to get it to run? We hope to test fire it soon. I ran new plug wires last night and buttoned up the under dash wiring. Just need to move the knock sensor and slide the donor tank under temporarily and plumb it up and she should be about ready. I can't move the KS to the other side because the headers are block huggers and dump right into the center on both sides. I might see if I can mod the KS wire/connector to clear the header as it isn't hitting by much.

If something looks off I'm all ears.

Thanks again,
Chad

[rfmaster]

1) ECM B1 & C16 to battery - must be always hot (see chart and diagram).
2) You do not need VSS to get the engine fired, but you'll need it once you get it into driving condition.
3) Many other circuits must be wired-up before you can really drive it.... (Brake, turn, back up, etc)

//RF

[D13]

Depending on which 88 (NBS = pickup) you got it from the trans may supply pulses to the ECM which then filters it to run the speedo. The other version (OBS = burb/blazer) uses cable drive speedo with a VSS output box hung on it. Either way you need the appropriate input. Old style uses 4000 pulse per mile and the new one uses like a 132,000 signal divided and dropped down for various systems. There were a couple years of crossovers where Burbs has cable drive trans rather than electronic outputs. Need to make sure your trans/dash/ecm all play together.

[408cuda]

Just a quick update. It lives! Had it running 3 or 4 times today. Sounds decent but did trip the SES light for the o2 sensor which was no surprise as it's jb welded into ~2' of ex pipe and the other side is open header. This was just to see if would even run. Lots of odds and ends to do now but we're on our way. Pretty uneventful test fire overall. We hooked the donor tank up under it and once it had fuel psi to the TB she took right off.

Checked the alt and only showed about 12.5v, need to look into that still.

rf, the diagrams are amazing. The ignition one will really be a great help to those thinking of doing this. I plan to study the headlights and will put to use when we get to that. Thanks again!

Hope I didn't steal your thread cj, but another tbi swap running and you guys were a big help. More questions to follow I'm sure.

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by 408cuda

Just a quick update. It lives! Had it running 3 or 4 times today. Sounds decent but did trip the SES light for the o2 sensor which was no surprise as it's jb welded into ~2' of ex pipe and the other side is open header. This was just to see if would even run. Lots of odds and ends to do now but we're on our way. Pretty uneventful test fire overall. We hooked the donor tank up under it and once it had fuel psi to the TB she took right off.

Checked the alt and only showed about 12.5v, need to look into that still.

rf, the diagrams are amazing. The ignition one will really be a great help to those thinking of doing this. I plan to study the headlights and will put to use when we get to that. Thanks again!

Hope I didn't steal your thread cj, but another tbi swap running and you guys were a big help. More questions to follow I'm sure.

Cuda

No worries about the thread - we are here to help (especially now). Do you know which alternator you have mounted on your motor??? I am guessing (based on a posted photo) that it is CS130 - should have four terminal connector with pins labeled S F L P and a stud labeled "Bat". Please confirm which alternator you have.

//RF

[pancake]

195/202@.050,.390/.410" lift stock?

[pancake]

That is a graet deal.

I have a surburban 08/1989 for parts. My friend said it has a blown head gasket. For $300.00 I can have anyuthing off it I want including all the TBI stuff. I will be pulling it tomarrow morning. I can get LOTS of parts off it. I will pull the heads and see how they look. If they are ok I will have the valves done and use them. I will keep you updated and thanks for looking for those deals.

[cjracing15]

Originally Posted by pancake

That is a graet deal.

I have a surburban 08/1989 for parts. My friend said it has a blown head gasket. For $300.00 I can have anyuthing off it I want including all the TBI stuff. I will be pulling it tomarrow morning. I can get LOTS of parts off it. I will pull the heads and see how they look. If they are ok I will have the valves done and use them. I will keep you updated and thanks for looking for those deals.

Now THATS a great deal. Make sure you pull all of the tbi stuff harness and all. It will take a little while but I would get every inch of wire that I can inculding the fuse box. Evreything unplugs and comes out intack. So good luck and keep us posted.

[pancake]

So I pulled the TBI stuff from my friends 90 Suburban. I checked the numbers and it is a 350 c.i. set up (ECM 1227747 BCC ASDU). I was not able to get the K.S., it was "stuck". I took the intake to the machine shop Thursday so they could hot tank it and he gave me the 4 shims/spacers I would need to put the intake on my heads (the four ceneter bolts will not line up). I sorted out the wiring and cleaned most of the other parts.


When I was doing the wiring I came up with a few more questions:

On the Oil Preasure sensor there are three wires...The light brown one went to the fuse block...Where does it go? Gauge?

I think I have the rest of the wires figured out except the ADAL connector:

Can you please guide me as to where these wires go?
A-BLK/WHT
B-WHT/BLK
C-DRK BRN
E-ORNG
F-LT BRN/BLK
H-White

Also, I belive it is the neutral switch (one PURPLE/WHT and one Wht wire) has a jumper across the wires at the connector under the dash. What do I do with this?

I can/will post pictures soon.

Thanks again for all the help.

[pancake]

Thanks RF.

I know where the vacuum for the power booster screws in, it is under the driver side front of the TBI. The vacuum I am talking about is between the dizzy and the tbi, just over the #8 cylinder intake. It looks like a smaller vacuum hose pushes onto it. There is a tall hex shaped adapter screwed into the intake with a nipple coming off it for a vacuum hose, I think.

I will try to get a picture.

The truck did have cruise controll..could it have been attached to that?


Thanks again.

[rfmaster]

The only way to answer is to take a look at (if possible ) undisturbed donor or take a look in FSM. Over the years that cyl 8 tap was used for everything but a kitchen sink. For conversion sake you should make sure that there are no vacuum leaks in induction system - the number one headache in speed density (SD) systems since it relies on MAP to provide engine load information to ECM. Quality gaskets, clean, straight matting surfaces are paramount, as well as taking time to put it all together.

//RF

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by pancake

Thanks RF.

I know where the vacuum for the power booster screws in, it is under the driver side front of the TBI. The vacuum I am talking about is between the dizzy and the tbi, just over the #8 cylinder intake. It looks like a smaller vacuum hose pushes onto it. There is a tall hex shaped adapter screwed into the intake with a nipple coming off it for a vacuum hose, I think.

I will try to get a picture.

The truck did have cruise controll..could it have been attached to that?


Thanks again.

Typically that is used for transmission vacuum but it also gets used for power brakes too.

On a high performance engine that pulls minimal vacuum you can actually lean out the #8 cylinder by plumbing power brakes to it.

Run the power brakes from the port on the throttle body.

[pancake]

I finally got around to doing the conversion.

After getting the intake on I am having trouble installing the Dizzy.

I lined up the dizzy to TDC on the #1 cylinder when I took the old one out. I have the TBI dizzy installed so the rotor is pointing in the same spot as the old dizzy.

The question I have is how does the Dizzy cap go on? Where on the cap should the #1 cylinder wire hook to? does it matter? Is it marke on the cap itself?

Thanks again for the help and I will be posting pictures soon.

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by pancake

I finally got around to doing the conversion.

After getting the intake on I am having trouble installing the Dizzy.

I lined up the dizzy to TDC on the #1 cylinder when I took the old one out. I have the TBI dizzy installed so the rotor is pointing in the same spot as the old dizzy.

The question I have is how does the Dizzy cap go on? Where on the cap should the #1 cylinder wire hook to? does it matter? Is it marke on the cap itself?

Thanks again for the help and I will be posting pictures soon.

I like the 5 o'clock position as well like it is pointed towards the #1 cylinder.

I always mark the #1 location on the cap and the distributor base with a sharpie so it is easy to see where the rotor needs to point and where the #1 plug wire belongs.

[pancake]

Hi guys, Almost done with the TBI insatll.

I have a few more questions:

1) B2 gray wire...goes to oil pressure, and fuel pump relay....does it also power the fuel pump?

2) D6 Ground wire...also connects to A12...Book says 02 ground?..Putting in a 4 wire 02 sensor..do I use D6 for the ground?

3) A6 book says "hot in start OR run" where do I run this wire? Fuse? what size fuse?

4) B1 and C16 same orange wire...12 volts? where do I run this wire? Fuse? Size fuse?

5)Where do I run the large pink wire from the top of the coil? Fuse? What size fuse? Do I hook it to the wire that came off the old Dizzy?

6) The instructions with the VSS say to ground it to the ECM....where should I ground it ( what number wire)?

7) C9 puirple wire to small starter terminal...I belive my starter has two small terminals (could be wrong) are they labled? if so which on do I connect C9 to?
What size wire? Fuse? What size fuse?

8) 4 wire 02 sensor (AFS75 AC/Delco)

Wire code on 02 sensor=
A=White
B=Blue
C=Black
D=black

Where on the relay do these wire connect?

My eletrical knowledge is VERY liminted...so please keep all answers as SIMPLE as possible.


Thank you all for keeping this post going

[pancake]

I think code 42 was set when I set the timing! It has not come back since then.

I did buy a TBI rebuild kit and installed it tonight...still no difference in performance. I though it could be the fuel regulator from what I have read on the net.

I forgot to mention : the first time I ever started it one of the injectors was not squirting fuel. I tapped on it with a wrench and it started to work.

Could a bad/dirty injector be the problem? I did replace the small screen filter and o-ring on the base of the injector when I did the rebuild.

I did buy a new fuel pump and sending unit along with new feed and return line.

I will buy a pressure gauge to test the fuel pressure...but I don't think that is the issue...could be wrong. Can anyone recomond a fuel pressure tester?

I will keep you posted on the results and please keep the ideas coming