Do I need a bigger radiator for 450 HP Stroker with Vintage Air?

[derotoreut]

I am putting in a new 383 stroker engine and also installing a Vintage Air system at the same time. Currently I have a 3-row radiator. I want to be sure I have adequate cooling for this engine. I have read that the condenser for the Vintage Air system causes some strain on the cooling system, and some guys have had to change out the radiators because its mounted in front of their radiators.

Here's the deal... currently my 3-row radiator does NOT have cooling provisions for my TH350, so the PO installed a tube/fin cooler in front of the current radiator. That's fine without the Vintage Air installed. Vintage Air says that only their condenser should be mounted in front of the radiator. So, if my current 3-row (with Vintage Air) is adequate enough, I still have to get an auxiliary trans oil cooler. What to do?

I also spoke with a guy at Derale Performance about the trans cooler. I explained exactly what I was doing and he suggested using a PN 13950 cooler.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13950/
He also said it would be best if I could run it through the radiator first, and then this trans cooler. Thats great and all, but I am also concerned about the overall radiator cooling for a new engine. So...

1. Do I need to replace my current 3-row radiator with a 4-row radiator?
2. If I need to replace my radiator, is a stock 4-row adequate or should I go with an aluminum racing type? I've heard that they're over rated.
3. Should it have provisions in the rad for AT cooling? Or use the aux trans cooler?
4. Should I replace my current 4-blade (non-clutch) stock fan?
5. Should I install an electric fan?

Thanks for your help.

[Lee H]

I have roughly the same set up. I have a stock 4 row for an automatic. Has never run hot, either with a stock clutch fan or with the elec fans I have on it now. An aux trans cooler could never hurt.

[derotoreut]

Originally Posted by Lee H

I have roughly the same set up. I have a stock 4 row for an automatic. Has never run hot, either with a stock clutch fan or with the elec fans I have on it now. An aux trans cooler could never hurt.

Lee, What engine do you have? do you have an aux trans cooler, or just the one built into the rad? What elec fan set up do you have?

[Lee H]

I have a home built 383, dynoed at 387 HP and 452 torque at the rear wheels. THM350, no aux cooler. LT1 Fans with Jeg's Dual electric relay kit. Runs at 180-190 all day every day, even with temps in the low 100's running the air in traffic.

[davepl]

You can get an OEM 4-core with trans cooler for $214. Seems cheap and its a direct fit.

[AusTx68]

Why not just go with a frame mounted dual pass tranny cooler like this one and install the condenser as stated: http://www.summitracing.com/search/?...20cooler&dds=1

If you were down here in Texas I would recommend an aluminum radiator and electric fans. I went aluminum and I assure you they are not overrated. I also run dual fans. I just installed my Vintage Air and plan to get it charged next week. Even without the A/C I have trouble staying below 200 in stop & go traffic during a Texas summer. My motor is a 383 dynoed at just over 400 hp. I'm running a frame rail tranny cooler.

[67ChevyRedneck]

I had to put a 4 row in my truck. My 3 row was fine with my 350 and 700R but it could not keep the truck cool in traffic after I added my VA kit.

I also added one of those tube style coolers as well with a stock 4 row and clutch fan and it's been fine ever since.

[68crum]

Originally Posted by davepl

You can get an OEM 4-core with trans cooler for $214. Seems cheap and its a direct fit.

Where can said radiator be found?

[derotoreut]

Originally Posted by AusTx68

Why not just go with a frame mounted dual pass tranny cooler like this one and install the condenser as stated: http://www.summitracing.com/search/?...20cooler&dds=1

If you were down here in Texas I would recommend an aluminum radiator and electric fans. I went aluminum and I assure you they are not overrated. I also run dual fans. I just installed my Vintage Air and plan to get it charged next week. Even without the A/C I have trouble staying below 200 in stop & go traffic during a Texas summer. My motor is a 383 dynoed at just over 400 hp. I'm running a frame rail tranny cooler.

FYI I talked to a guy at Derale Performance today who said he would never use one of these coolers.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13261/
He said, yes they manufacture these coolers, but they just don't cut it, even if you use it in conjunction with your rad trans cooler. He said definitely DO NOT use it as a stand alone trans cooler. He did however, recommend other options like the plate style coolers.

[AusTx68]

Originally Posted by derotoreut

FYI I talked to a guy at Derale Performance today who said he would never use one of these coolers.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13261/
He said, yes they manufacture these coolers, but they just don't cut it, even if you use it in conjunction with your rad trans cooler. He said definitely DO NOT use it as a stand alone trans cooler. He did however, recommend other options like the plate style coolers.

That doesn't make sense to me. There are lots of people that only use the radiator cooler and do just fine. Add a frame cooler to a stock setup and it can only get better. Maybe he's talking about heavy duty hauling or towing where a high performance external cooler is mandatory. I'll bet if you added an aluminum radiator with built in tranny cooler you'd be just fine.

[derotoreut]

Originally Posted by AusTx68

That doesn't make sense to me. There are lots of people that only use the radiator cooler and do just fine. Add a frame cooler to a stock setup and it can only get better. Maybe he's talking about heavy duty hauling or towing where a high performance external cooler is mandatory. I'll bet if you added an aluminum radiator with built in tranny cooler you'd be just fine.

I agree... Doesn't make sense to me either. If you use the stock rad trans cooler and add a frame cooler it would just seem to help. I def know he wasn't talking about towing or hauling. He wanted to know exactly what my set up was. He wanted to know year, model, engine size, HP, transmission, rear end ratio, tire size, mode of driving (street, strip, racing, DD), etc. He suggested a couple of trans coolers if using along with stock rad cooler or as stand alone. It was just strange that he had nothing good to say about the heat sink type cooler. He said he would never recommend them, or ever use them on his own cars.

I think I saw pictures of your cooling set up in a thread somewhere and I thought it was pretty good. If you have these, I would love to see them again. I believe you had a SS over flow on passenger side and frame mounted heat sink cooler on driver side.

[PanelDeland]

I would go to a 4 core rad,make sure I had a good fan(or run electrics) and an aftermarket tranny cooler either in the gril area or with it's own fanss.Keep in mind that running electric fans may require an alternator rated higher that stock.

[derotoreut]

Originally Posted by PanelDeland

I would go to a 4 core rad,make sure I had a good fan(or run electrics) and an aftermarket tranny cooler either in the gril area or with it's own fanss.Keep in mind that running electric fans may require an alternator rated higher that stock.

Do I go with a stock 4-row radiator, or go with an aluminum radiator? I was thinking about using a stock 4-row radiator that comes with transmission cooler, and then also possibly adding aftermarket trans cooler. Tech support at Derale Performance suggested running through rad trans cooler and then through aftermarket cooler like this.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13402/

[PanelDeland]

I think that would work,I don't really know if the aluminum is any better but I do know it's more expensive.If you're concerned about the airflow you might consider one like this that can be mounted where you want

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...60346/10002/-1

You would need to check alternator output though.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by derotoreut

I am putting in a new 383 stroker engine and also installing a Vintage Air system at the same time. Currently I have a 3-row radiator. I want to be sure I have adequate cooling for this engine. I have read that the condenser for the Vintage Air system causes some strain on the cooling system, and some guys have had to change out the radiators because its mounted in front of their radiators.

Here's the deal... currently my 3-row radiator does NOT have cooling provisions for my TH350, so the PO installed a tube/fin cooler in front of the current radiator. That's fine without the Vintage Air installed. Vintage Air says that only their condenser should be mounted in front of the radiator. So, if my current 3-row (with Vintage Air) is adequate enough, I still have to get an auxiliary trans oil cooler. What to do?

I also spoke with a guy at Derale Performance about the trans cooler. I explained exactly what I was doing and he suggested using a PN 13950 cooler.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13950/
He also said it would be best if I could run it through the radiator first, and then this trans cooler. Thats great and all, but I am also concerned about the overall radiator cooling for a new engine. So...

1. Do I need to replace my current 3-row radiator with a 4-row radiator?
2. If I need to replace my radiator, is a stock 4-row adequate or should I go with an aluminum racing type? I've heard that they're over rated.
3. Should it have provisions in the rad for AT cooling? Or use the aux trans cooler?
4. Should I replace my current 4-blade (non-clutch) stock fan?
5. Should I install an electric fan?

Thanks for your help.

Install a full width electric fan and a four row Rad. This setup runs here in Tucson in the Summer when temps hit 115 and it does not overheat.

[derotoreut]

Originally Posted by Fitz

Install a full width electric fan and a four row Rad. This setup runs here in Tucson in the Summer when temps hit 115 and it does not overheat.

That looks good. Who's set up is that? Where did you get it?

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by derotoreut

That looks good. Who's set up is that? Where did you get it?

Summit Racing BeCool 4 row with built in trans cooler & Be Cool dual electric fan.

They have a Griffin unit that's a bit lower in price and both are a direct fit.

[into69z]

I will be replacing my radiators with one of these units when needed. This is USA made, has a true 3000cfm fan set-up and a nice shroud. I have seen these in person and the quality is awesome. I have seen them at work on the "48 hour Camaro project"-drag raced all day with the a/c on in the heat in Atlanta and in Nashville and never had a problem. Little pricey but add up all you need to build this set up and I think your money ahead. You pay for what you get.