Crown Vic IFS for 55-59?

[GMCGoat]

Has anyone done a 2005 Crown Victoria front aluminium cradle for their front IFS on a 55-59?

I have a 1957 GMC 1/2 ton and want to know if this is a good donor.

I can pick one up relatively cheap. I'm still waiting on some measurements from the seller and then I can see if it fits. But of course I'd rather do this if someone else has already attempted it....

I've seen this done on a Dodge Truck on the tv show Fast and Loud .

[mr48chev]

I wouldn't go by anything that was done on loud and fast. If it is one of those box shape Dodges from the 60's/70's/80's I think they are quite a bit wider than a Task force truck.
CarCrafter over on the Ford Truck board did the swap on his 66 F100 and his thread is one that is constantly referred to as the go to thread much the same as the thread about swapping a Firebird subframe on a TaskForce panel on the HAMB is on those swaps. http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/71...o-67-f100.html

The one thing he states is that they are WIDE even for his 66 and he was very limited to what wheels he could fit under the fenders.

There is no free lunch with any swap on front end pieces. I would look at the Jag XJ6 swaps that a couple of guys on here have done on both AD and Taskforce trucks. The initial cost is comparative with the Crown Vic front end but everything is in one piece when it drops out and you don't have to hack up the front end sheet metal like you do with the Subframe swaps. Also since the wheelbase is quite a bit closer to the short bed wheelbase than a MII is you get better steering feel from the get go. I've got an aftermarket MII crossmember and tube A frames and I am thinking real hard about getting a Jag Front and rear suspension for my 48 and use the MII on a project that I am slowly collecting parts and pieces for where it will work pretty well.

[fabguy]

I thought about a lot of front end options for my wife's 55.2 suburban and finally desided on C4 corvette IFS and IRS. I am going this route due to the availability of off the shelf parts in case I need them later, and the ride quality. Lastely was the price. Flat out engineering makes the crossmembers/ bracketry that will adapt this suspension to the TF trucks. In my opinion it is one of the lowest priced options out there for both IFS & IRS. C4 parts can be found relatively cheap if you shop around enough. Good luck in your hunt for suspension.
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[semn49]

If your frame is nice and flat, and your frame rails are parallel with each other, AND the track width is right, then it shouldn't be too bad.

BUT, If one or all of those things are wrong be prepared for ALOT of fabrication.

BTW I'm using a CV front on my '49 project, and mostly because of the fabrication time it's been pushed aside many times.

[Dan in Pasadena]

All I've read about them is that they're too wide.

All you've saved by their simplicity you lose by the hassle you have to deal with on the width.

[yossarian19]

I'd thought it was the correct width..?
Match it with the Ford Explorer 8.8 rear axle to keep the bolt patterns matching, get 3.73 gears with a limited slip & rear discs... Width will need work on both ends, but it's cheap & quality.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by yossarian19

I'd thought it was the correct width..?
Match it with the Ford Explorer 8.8 rear axle to keep the bolt patterns matching, get 3.73 gears with a limited slip & rear discs... Width will need work on both ends, but it's cheap & quality.

The track width for the Ford is about 3" narrower than a TF you can make that up with wheels, but the frame rails are both 34". It does just about bolt on but you do need to do some fab work. Its doesn't work so well on a AD with the narrowed frame. 2003 to 2007 police P71 has the heavy duty front suspension.

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by yossarian19

I'd thought it was the correct width..?
Match it with the Ford Explorer 8.8 rear axle to keep the bolt patterns matching, get 3.73 gears with a limited slip & rear discs... Width will need work on both ends, but it's cheap & quality.

If you took time to read the Ford trucks link I posted above you would see that it is actually quite a bit wider than the Explorer tread wise. If you look at the Crown Vics they run wheels quite similar to front wheel drive wheels with no negative offset at all and still are way out in the wheel openings.

It's a shame too as they are fairly easy to set up on the Ford trucks and might be just as easy on Task Force trucks. They are all cast aluminum so there isn't much in the way of making changes to them.

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by yossarian19

I'd thought it was the correct width..?
Match it with the Ford Explorer 8.8 rear axle to keep the bolt patterns matching, get 3.73 gears with a limited slip & rear discs... Width will need work on both ends, but it's cheap & quality.

If you took time to read the Ford trucks link I posted above you would see that it is actually quite a bit wider than the Explorer tread wise. If you look at the Crown Vics they run wheels quite similar to front wheel drive wheels with no negative offset at all and still are way out in the wheel openings.

It's a shame too as they are fairly easy to set up on the Ford trucks and might be just as easy on Task Force trucks. They are all cast aluminum so there isn't much in the way of making changes to them.

Here is one post from the Ford truck thread that explains it rather well:

.
Using the stock Crown Vic rims, the track width is 63.4". Which is a little bit wide.

That is the only drawback to this system.

The '65-79 F100's had a track width of around 60.5" but they can swallow the extra width quite easily.
I'm not certain but I believe F350's had a track width of 63.5".

The stock rims also have 5.72" of back space on a 7" wide rim so it is very difficult to "narrow" the track width by using a different offset.(the stock rims have about as much offset as you can get!)

The good news on the rims is that it is the same bolt pattern/offset/back space that is used by the '05 and newer Mustangs.
So you can use take off wheels from a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis, Marauder, Mustang, or after market wheels designed for the newer Mustang.

Carcrafter, your spring rate spec's seem a little off, Can I ask where you got them? I've looked everywhere and can't find them. Thanks.

These Crown Vic's (police or otherwise)weigh in at 4100 lbs with about 2200 lbs on the front ends.
Most of our old trucks weigh in at 3500 lbs with around 1800-2000 on the front end.
They are nice solid pieces, they are not Pinto's/Mustang II's or Pacer's.

As Carcrafter mentioned they have 12" rotors with dual piston calipers.
(Have you seen how inexpensive cross drilled and slotted rotors are for these?)

Most of the aftermarket IFS kits have been "upgraded" to utilize an 11" rotor and a single piston caliper, you can also upgarde from those as well.($$$)Untill you end up with brakes as good as the ones found stock on these cars.

[dwcsr]

I'm not sure why we are talking about track widths on larger Ford trucks when it’s a 1/2 ton task force but the track for the Vic suspension is 67.5. The front track on a TF is 60.5 and 61.5 on the rear but this doesn’t matter in a suspension swap. The width of 74.5 across the front fenders on a 57 is important. The outside of tire to outside of tire on a Vic is 71-1/2" +/- with stock rims, looks like it fits to me. The mount points on a Vic are 34 inches, the frame on a TF is 34 inches. This also fits.

I can't speak for anyone else but I see a nice fit. I don't care what the old width was, its going on the heap. Don't care what the old rear is , its going on the pile to. The new rear can be anything as long as it fits in the wheel wells I’d use it. I just care will it fit the frame, YES, will it fit under the fenders, YES. Will an 8.8 ford rear work? It’s a very popular swap for TF trucks. So that gets another YES. The explorer 8.8 is 59-1/2 inches hub to hub, it will fit nicely.

There are several write ups of this install here on this site that worked out well for the owners. I don’t see any red flags on this one at all, i'd do this one in a heartbeat.

As a note I'm measuring track width from the centerline of the tire not outside to outside as some rock crawlers do.

[andrewmp6]

I'm kinda a ford guy never done this swap but i know a lot about the crown vics.You can get wilwood brakes for it air bags if you want but have to relocate the shocks even 17 inch steel rims off the 06+ cop cars.

[mr48chev]

DW I was just using that to point out what you said quite well in post 10, The Crown Vic front ends are WIDE Even on the wider later model Ford pickups they are WIDE and wheel choices are limited.

I posted the link to Carcrafter's thread originally to help answer the OP"s question on installing the front end on his Task force truck so he could see some of the trials and tribulations of it. It's a slick setup but just like most all slick setups it has it's minuses along with it's pluses and sometimes the minuses win out when it's all said and done.

Every suspension swap has it's goods and bads. The Camaro subframe swaps take cutting the frame off an fitting the front end sheet metal to the subframe which is a pain. The better MII aftermarket setups are often out of a guy's reasonable truck budget. The Jag XJ6 setup might be hard to come up with in areas where there aren't a lot of those Jags around. The Crown Vic although rather inexpensive is super wide.

Any used setup will probably have to be rebuilt and sometimes rebuild parts can get pretty spendy so that is always a consideration. One doesn't usually rebuild a suspension too often but if you buy a used suspension from a wrecking yard and then need 400 worth of ball joints to make it right that over doubles the cost and starts getting close to aftermarket setups.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

DW I was just using that to point out what you said quite well in post 10, The Crown Vic front ends are WIDE Even on the wider later model Ford pickups they are WIDE and wheel choices are limited.

I posted the link to Carcrafter's thread originally to help answer the OP"s question on installing the front end on his Task force truck so he could see some of the trials and tribulations of it. It's a slick setup but just like most all slick setups it has it's minuses along with it's pluses and sometimes the minuses win out when it's all said and done.

Every suspension swap has it's goods and bads. The Camaro subframe swaps take cutting the frame off an fitting the front end sheet metal to the subframe which is a pain. The better MII aftermarket setups are often out of a guy's reasonable truck budget. The Jag XJ6 setup might be hard to come up with in areas where there aren't a lot of those Jags around. The Crown Vic although rather inexpensive is super wide.

Any used setup will probably have to be rebuilt and sometimes rebuild parts can get pretty spendy so that is always a consideration. One doesn't usually rebuild a suspension too often but if you buy a used suspension from a wrecking yard and then need 400 worth of ball joints to make it right that over doubles the cost and starts getting close to aftermarket setups.

But thats what hot rodding is all about and always has been , using what you have on hand to improve your ride. Its not supposed to be easy but in this day of bolt on everything everyone wants perfect. Gassers are the best example, they maybe were a 54 belair with a olds rear, ford truck front axle and a chrysler engine with an automatic mated to a clutch and looked goofy as hell. Nothing looked like it fit and looked like a body fell on a pile of parts but its hot rodding at its best.

The crown vic is wide but it fits under the fenders on a 57 nicely thats what counts.

[mr48chev]

I don't know DW as I have never seen one done yet and all I see is speculation on if they will or won't fit a 55/59 Chevy pickup. I don't know if they will fit up to the frame like the Crown Vic does on the F100 frames either. This is where the good old tape measure comes into play.

As far as your comments on the pieced together gassers. I saw plenty of those when I was thrown together by the "older" guys in the area. Most were so cobbled together that they weren't safe to do a burnout in front of the shop with and no way would they ever pass tech at a real drag strip. A couple in the town I grew up in and still live in would make a lot of today's rat rods look well built in comparison.

I'm still going on the concept that the majority of guys driving Taskforce trucks who are interested in a suspension swap want to run wheels with a bit of negative offset or reverse to them to look right and not run wheels that look like they belong on a front wheel drive car.

[55dude]

The guys over on the FTE site seen to feel they are too wide. They are a slick setup. I have a jag for my panel,,front and rear.
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[mr48chev]

I'm thinking Jag real seriously for my 48 and using the "universal" MII setup I have on another project that Is in the works for the future. I'll probably have to go over to the Seattle-Tacoma area to get one though as they are hard to find over here.

[Mac the Yankee]

I've seen threads where folks have narrowed the Vic crossmember a bit to better fit the TF chassis.

Also been wondering about grafting a Toyota 4Runner/Tacoma front crossmember... been driving a 2000 4Runner for years and NEVER thought about it until now

[G&R's57GMC]

One could use the front fenders from a 5500 conventional they are wider.

The rear could be 3" wider fiberglass fenders.

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by Mac the Yankee

I've seen threads where folks have narrowed the Vic crossmember a bit to better fit the TF chassis.

Also been wondering about grafting a Toyota 4Runner/Tacoma front crossmember... been driving a 2000 4Runner for years and NEVER thought about it until now

I'd think that most guys wouldn't be narrowing a Crown Vic crossmember as they are aluminum and are going to take some skilled welding along with having to deal with a too wide rack and starting over there. Unless someone slipped a steel one in the mix in earlier years. The one in the Ford Trucks thread that i posted the link to is cast aluminum and has two pretty tall towers right in the big middle of where most guys what to put their oil pan.

Can you pm me a link to the site that has those narrowed setups on it? Or post it here?

Via a bit of a search, I did find one "narrowed" Crown Vic crossmember in a Chevy pickup.. The guy used a cut down Crown Vic trans crossmember to hold the 7ooR4 he put in his 60 Chevy pickup.

The big problem with any of these crossmember, subframe or frame swaps is that one guy does a lot of homework and puts a lot of effort into his swap and posts photos and a writeup and pretty soon there are guys all over the place who glance at the photos and read the first couple of posts who run out and buy the same setup to stick under their trucks and half of them end up with something fairly decent and half of them end up with a cobbled up mess that will never get driven or won't be safe when it does get driven.

[mr48chev]

Take a look at these videos by Mike Lane. He swapped an 04 Crown Vic front suspension into a 54/55 F100 which is about the same width as a Task Force truck. His work is a bit rough and you have to live through the music with no verbal explanations but by looking at his videos and a couple of others on similar trucks you can get a pretty good idea of what you are up against. It will work outside of not having a lot of choices on wheel depth as any reverse wheel is going to stick outside of the opening. crown victoria 2003 swap 35-56 f100 IFS is finished - YouTube It's Ford so you have to put on your Imagination cap to watch it and figure out if it will work on a Task force.

He has at least three videos on it with one showing a good look at a stock Crown Vic Front end sitting out on the ground. The Ford motor mount towers aren't as tall as I thought they were and shouldn't be much of a bother.

[Russell Ashley]

Thunderbirds from about 87 through 95(?) had independent rear suspension that I think can be removed as a unit. I don't know if the front suspension can be removed as a unit like the Vic though. They look smaller than a Crown Vic so this might be a better fit for an AD or TF.

[hard3]

[IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]I have the rear end from a 99 town car in my truck it measures 64.5 inch wheel mount to wheel mount. With the wheels I have 9.25 x 20 (255/35 r20 ) it fills the wheel wells good