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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Seattle Wa
Posts: 7
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Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
I'm in the process of swapping an LS into my 71 c10. I have heard that its best if you convert to hydraulic brakes when upping the power. Does anyone have an idea of at what point the vacuum brake booster becomes not enough? Maybe at a certain horse power The truck doesn't have power brakes to begin with so I am trying to decide between the 2 and the cost/labor difference is pretty huge.
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#2 |
Who Changed This?
![]() Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 10,396
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
Power brakes that are assisted by vacuum will become problematic at a low enough vacuum level. This is usually associated with a wild camshaft. How wild do you expect to go? If you have non-power disc brakes already, you're done. You do have front disc brakes, right, as they came out in '71?
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~Steven '70 Chevy 3/4T Longhorn CST 402/400/3.56 Custom Camper Simi Valley, CA |
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Seattle Wa
Posts: 7
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
I do currently have disc up front and drum in the back. Just the stock set up. It would be nice to have some form of power brakes when all said and done. I am going to go with a cam that is as aggressive as I can get away with without loosing streetability. I'm building a turbo for the truck as well. Trying to end up somewhere around 400-600 hp.
Last edited by heffe608; 04-08-2018 at 01:18 PM. |
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#4 |
Who Changed This?
![]() Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 10,396
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
How do the current brakes work? Can they haul you down from speed in a respectable distance, without standing on the pedal? Hydraboost has been available for a long time. Maybe you want to do that? Someone will chime in eventually with a minimum vacuum requirement for whatever your setup will be. My truck is bone stock, and I'm not really looking to go too wild with it, since I tow a travel trailer and HP takes away low end torque...unless the engine is big enough. I already only get 7 MPG towing; I'm not looking to reduce that!
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~Steven '70 Chevy 3/4T Longhorn CST 402/400/3.56 Custom Camper Simi Valley, CA |
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#5 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Independence Mo
Posts: 4,119
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
Quote:
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My '72 short bed build. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...6-0-4l80e.html 5.3 swap into my RUSTY '71 C10 http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...71-c-10-a.html |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Seattle Wa
Posts: 7
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
They work just like you expect non power brakes to work... I live in Seattle so having good brakes is high on the priority list with in city driving.
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#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 3,090
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
A stock vacuum assist setup with a suitable vacuum reservoir if necessary would be far less expensive than hydraulic ( 150+37+20shipping=207bucks ).
Worry about it later, after you've got your swap done! -klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi 07 335 sport turbo 6sp 94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs 99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold 73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend 68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold |
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#8 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Independence Mo
Posts: 4,119
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
Quote:
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My '72 short bed build. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...6-0-4l80e.html 5.3 swap into my RUSTY '71 C10 http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...71-c-10-a.html Last edited by ls1nova71; 04-08-2018 at 12:22 PM. |
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#9 |
Special Order
![]() ![]() Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mt Airy, MD
Posts: 85,859
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
You must be talking about forms of power assist because all vehicles have had hydraulic brakes since they stopped using mechanical in the '30s. I only know low vacuum to cause vacuum assist power brakes to be inadequate. If you need more braking power you should deal with that at the wheel end with upgraded calipers.
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ |
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Seattle Wa
Posts: 7
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
Ive been using the wrong term. I am thinking of converting to hydroboost. So using the power steering pump for pressure rather then vacuum pressure.
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#11 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Seattle Wa
Posts: 7
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
Hydroboost conversions are either very expensive or very labor intensive.
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#12 |
All about them K’s
![]() Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Entrapment
Posts: 6,374
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
Not true at all. Captain fab on the parts board makes the plates to bolt the hydraboost to the fire wall. All you need is a hydraboost from the junkyard and a little plumbing and your in business. There’s plenty of threads on here on exactly how to convert over. I’m converting my K20 to hydraboost with a hydraulic clutch as we speak. It can definitely be done for pretty cheap.
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Tyler '57 3100 http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=813888 '72 K20 Cheyenne http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=662879 ‘69 K10 SWB http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=805206 '98 Silverado LT K2500HD ECLB Vortec 454/4l80E: 6" lift 315/75/16's ‘87 IROC-Z all original 50K mile survivor TPI 305 IROC Blue ‘10 Camaro 2SS/RS Aqua Blue Metallic #93 -version 2.0 ![]() |
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#13 |
At the body shop.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land of fruits and nuts.
Posts: 5,212
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
My 400 makes 9'' vacuum and stopped fine with a booster.
Since deleted and went back to a manual master cylinder. Less bs under the hood
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" That didnt make it any newer " " Dont antique the equipment " |
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#14 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,332
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
Quote:
I wouldn't worry about a hydraboost unless you've got an enormous camshaft with no vacuum. If you do you'll hate your truck so much you won't drive it anyway, so it solves the braking problem on its own. Normal cam and normal vacuum booster would be my suggestion.
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1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible |
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#15 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: san bernardino ca
Posts: 1,611
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
If you have a big can you will not have vacuum.
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#16 | |
At the body shop.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land of fruits and nuts.
Posts: 5,212
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
Quote:
Truest statement here.
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" That didnt make it any newer " " Dont antique the equipment " |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bowser
Posts: 13,608
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
Generally you need at least 14hg of vacuum for a booster.
You can use a vacuum can to help or use a vacuum pump to boost the vacuum if needed. |
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#18 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Klein Texas
Posts: 3,852
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
Since the OP is starting with manual brakes I would suggest hydraboost. Easily found in the junk yard (mine was a fresh rebuilt off a Astro van for $35)and easily adapted. I spent perhaps another $100 in hose, AN fittings and adapters.
Finding an OE style booster and bracket will probably set you back at least the same.
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My Classics: '72 K20 Suburban + '65 Dodge Town Wagon '72 Corvette Roadster +'67 Corvette Roadster '73 Z-28 Camaro '63 Ford SWB Uni Pickup '50 Ford Coupe |
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,332
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
That's true, if you're coming from manual and have to buy it all anyway, why not!
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1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible |
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#20 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 3,090
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Re: Vacuum vs. Hydraulic Brakes
I think OP is being quoted vacuum vs. hydraulic from a shop. This probably means bargain salvage yard parts are off the table in favor of high end new systems and a hefty premium over the cost plus whatever install pricing they choose.
In this case, I recommend OP leave it as-is for now and deal with it later, perhaps with the advise from the board regarding these less expensive options. -klb
__________________
67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi 07 335 sport turbo 6sp 94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs 99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold 73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend 68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold |
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#21 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Seattle Wa
Posts: 7
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I spoke to captain fab about his brackets and ordered from him. That takes the labor side out. The hydroboost itself is cheap from the junk yard. When I said labor intensive or expensive that was speaking from a place where your either paying wilwood $1000 for the set up ready to go or going to the junk yard then doing a bunch of fab work to get all the parts to come together. The brackets captain fab is making takes this from Id say about a level 6 difficulty down to about a 3 from what I ca tell.
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brakes, hydraulic, hydraulic brakes, power brakes |
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