Firewall-to-Fender Brace Rods

[MiraclePieCo]

I've noticed that lots of owners delete these rods from their trucks, especially those with V8s, apparently with no ill effects. How necessary are they? Will fenders sag without them? Is there another way to compensate for their absence - say an additional brace across the core support?

The reason I'm asking is because it appears that my firewall-mounted brake booster may interfere with installing the brace rods. Can I omit them?

Here's a pic of some:

[_Ogre]

none of my 3100 trucks have had them or the holes for the rods, there are dimples where the brackets go, just no holes
my 3800 had them, might have something to do with intended use/loading

[MiraclePieCo]

That's interesting. Does that mean that some 1/2-ton trucks never had them from the factory?

[Matt_50]

I'd like to see what others say. I've got them and I've wondered if I needed to keep them, or like you said maybe do something across the support instead.

[mr48chev]

I don't know about that as I have never seen an original truck without them. I left them off the second time I redid my truck when I had the firewall mount brakes on it and looking back created a lot of squeaks and rattles for my self along with possibly not being able to keep the hood latched because the front end would move around a bit.

Those braces and the other braces were put there for a reason and when we leave them off we sometimes create problems that we end up pounding our heads against the walls while fighting. That's my take on it with 40+ years of experience with these trucks.

[GreasyLikeaBurger]

They are/were on my 3100, but I purchased a *****in' (i guess the bad word filter doesnt like that, b i t c h i n')Products radiator core support and they said it helps eliminate the support rods. So i Guess it all depends on who you talk to.

[Clay54]

Originally Posted by MiraclePieCo

That's interesting. Does that mean that some 1/2-ton trucks never had them from the factory?

My 3100 has them and I assume they came from the factory.

[evilokc]

I drove mine for a few months without them and I felt like I had a little shake when I hit a good bump. I put them back on and its never felt that way again. also cut down on the rattles.

[PDW HOTRODS]

All of the trucks got them factory. Look under the front where the core support mounts. The mounts are in center. The later trucks have the mounts farther apart. Without the bars the front can twist. You don't have to use them but they do a job. You could make some mounts at the outer edges of the core support to the frame and that should help. I did that with a 53 and it worked well.

[joedoh]

I can see the benefit when the original core support to frame mount is used, its centered, all the force is within the ~6" the mounts are apart, and the front would want to tilt left or right without the braces. when I set up the front on a frame swap I use a bushing on a mount on the outside of the frame/core support and omit the rods.

[Desert1957]

So what is the bottom line opinion? Should I keep mine after the build?

[mobileortho]

For those who didn't install them, I'm curious to know how you were able to line up your fenders with the hood?

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by mobileortho

For those who didn't install them, I'm curious to know how you were able to line up your fenders with the hood?

the fender bolts to the inner fender which bolts to both the cab and to the grille/air director. there isnt a lot of wiggle room (pun intended) for lining things up incorrectly. looking at what the rods support, it doenst look like something added to align sheetmetal but more something added to keep the front end from rocking back and forth on the center mount.

for a theoretical representation of this, imagine a rectangle made of 2x4's with its bottom center bolted to a 6" long piece of 2x4 that is also bolted to the ground. push on one side.


without them my hood still lined up, like I said I changed the center mount to an outboard mount, it was very strong.

[MiraclePieCo]

Originally Posted by joedoh

without them my hood still lined up, like I said I changed the center mount to an outboard mount, it was very strong.

Got pics? Photobucket obliterated most of your build thread photos.

BTW, I love your "Ship of Theseus Paradox" reference applied to auto restoration. When a '32 Ford has had virtually every part replaced with new reproduction, is it still a '32 Ford?

[joedoh]

all of my old pictures are on the backup desktop, but I will be doing it again in a week or so on my latest 49. picture an outrigger that goes to the top of the frame, it mounts at about 2/3 down on the outside of the core support

actually the pictures of the core mount are still there.




http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...623199&page=11

[joedoh]

I was looking for something else and found this on the GM Heritage site.

1949_Chevrolet_Truck_Engineering

it goes into detail on a couple things relevant to this thread, including the switch to shackle mounts in the rear, but mostly the change of the lower core support mount from center mount to 8" apart and the addition of the x brace in the rad core to stiffen the front clip shake on rough roads. it doesnt say it specifically, but logically that has to be what the underhood braces were for.

interestingly enough, it talks about the flipped door regulator rods too, which was a discussion on here a while ago.

[mr48chev]

They do work without the firewall to fender braces and thousands of trucks have been run without them over the past 65 years ever since guys started swapping engines or just didn't bother to run them.

As I said earlier I have run both ways. Results was far more squeaks, rattles and hood/fenders not lining up or staying aligned when i ran the truck without them. That included the hood blowing up when I passed a truck somewhere in the middle of Wyoming on a two lane road and the hood would have been destroyed except it has 120 louvers and the louvers took the presser off and let me see somewhat until I got the struck stopped. The nose moved around enough that the hood could pop loose and the safety didn't catch or hold.

When I put the truck back together on the 54 frame in a 3 week bash to get it together to take to an event from bare frame to driving I put the braces back in along with the correct braces in front of the radiator. It just works to stiffen up the front end and keep things in place.

It will work without them but may not work as well as it could or should, that is the bottom line.

[mobileortho]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

It will work without them but may not work as well as it could or should, that is the bottom line.

Agreed.

[Scott2]

I put my firewall to fender supports in as well. I’m still looking for the braces that go from the radiator support down to the lower grill support panel - anyone know where I can get a set?

Thanks!

[MiraclePieCo]

Originally Posted by Scott2

I’m still looking for the braces that go from the radiator support down to the lower grill support panel - anyone know where I can get a set?
Thanks!

If I can't find any I plan to fabricate some. Should be really easy.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

They do work without the firewall to fender braces and thousands of trucks have been run without them over the past 65 years ever since guys started swapping engines or just didn't bother to run them.

As I said earlier I have run both ways. Results was far more squeaks, rattles and hood/fenders not lining up or staying aligned when i ran the truck without them. That included the hood blowing up when I passed a truck somewhere in the middle of Wyoming on a two lane road and the hood would have been destroyed except it has 120 louvers and the louvers took the presser off and let me see somewhat until I got the struck stopped. The nose moved around enough that the hood could pop loose and the safety didn't catch or hold.

When I put the truck back together on the 54 frame in a 3 week bash to get it together to take to an event from bare frame to driving I put the braces back in along with the correct braces in front of the radiator. It just works to stiffen up the front end and keep things in place.

It will work without them but may not work as well as it could or should, that is the bottom line.

I have no idea if my old braces are going to work with my sectioned cab and 235 Corvette motor, I hope so, they have been hanging in the shed with "new" Chrome on them waiting for 25 years!

I sure hope they can be used! I personally like the looks of them. And I have found they DO play a part in the alignment. That is why they have the nuts on both sides of the bracket, so you can move that in or out on either side, THAT is the reason they are there.

Brian

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by joedoh

I was looking for something else and found this on the GM Heritage site.

1949_Chevrolet_Truck_Engineering

it goes into detail on a couple things relevant to this thread, including the switch to shackle mounts in the rear, but mostly the change of the lower core support mount from center mount to 8" apart and the addition of the x brace in the rad core to stiffen the front clip shake on rough roads. it doesnt say it specifically, but logically that has to be what the underhood braces were for.

interestingly enough, it talks about the flipped door regulator rods too, which was a discussion on here a while ago.

I am a BIG fan of marketing and have studied the subject. Marketing goes from honestly providing something to help someone to slight of hand magic so they see what you want them to see. LOL

Those sales pitches from that time are so friggin hilarious!

Referring to the new "Grooved retainer spot welded to pillar" to hold the wind lace:

"The old design, the attaching screws pinched the weatherstrip making it wavy and uneven. The new weatherstrip however, is held smoothly and firmly in place and has a much neater appearance."

LOLOLOL funny stuff. I do have to make up my mind if I want to use my old 48 weatherstrip and retainer or weld in the newer "Grooved retainer" to the pillar and go with the new design.
I haven't decided yet.

Brian

[paulspickupparts]

Originally Posted by Scott2

I put my firewall to fender supports in as well. I’m still looking for the braces that go from the radiator support down to the lower grill support panel - anyone know where I can get a set?

Thanks!

I have a pair for $35 plus actual shipping. Should not be bad due to location. Paypal or Money Order

[Scott2]

Originally Posted by paulspickupparts

I have a pair for $35 plus actual shipping. Should not be bad due to location. Paypal or Money Order

Sounds fine. Shoot me the Paypal info. I’m in 80104.

Thanks!

[MiraclePieCo]

Originally Posted by paulspickupparts

I have a pair for $35 plus actual shipping. Should not be bad due to location. Paypal or Money Order

Looks like mine are missing too. Got another pair?