C10 front end under an AD Chevy truck

[DINK]

Can't remember if it was here, but I saw pics of a C10 front end that a guy narrowed and put up under an Advanced Designs truck. Does any one know if or where it is on this site?

[winchster]

I have one, I didn't narrow it though.

[DINK]

Got pics?

[winchster]

If you need better or more specific, let me know.

[Steve@OldSub.com]

I have a C-20 IFS under the front of my 1-ton. However its not finished.

A couple years ago I went on a mission to find finished and driving trucks with this swap, and discovered pretty quickly that very few of these conversions have been completed and are under trucks that get driven.

Yes there are some out there, but a lot more people start the swap than finish it.

[winchster]

Originally Posted by Steve@OldSub.com

I have a C-20 IFS under the front of my 1-ton. However its not finished.

A couple years ago I went on a mission to find finished and driving trucks with this swap, and discovered pretty quickly that very few of these conversions have been completed and are under trucks that get driven.

Yes there are some out there, but a lot more people start the swap than finish it.

I have driven mine. My son drove it to school his senior year. I did this swap in '99 Back when S10's were a new thing and I couldn't afford a Heidt's, Fatman, or MII

[Steve@OldSub.com]

Originally Posted by winchster

I have driven mine.

I am aware of yours but was not when I started my search for completed and driving examples.

In asking questions I had discovered that the guy most often quoted on the Stovebolt as the expert on how it is done had never finished his conversion, and in fact was going back to a straight axle on his. That scared me some because at the time I didn't know anyone who had done this swap and was driving it.

He lives only a few hundred miles from me and I managed to meet him and get a tour of his shop and projects. He has since updated his web page explaining what problems he encountered and why he had abandoned the approach on his own truck.

This is his suspension when I saw the truck.



One time on a road trip I passed a '50 GMC 1-ton with a camper body running down the freeway at about 60 where its posted at 70 and so I didn't look it over very hard. The next day I spotted that same truck in a parking lot in Oregon so I looked it over. It was Cummins powered and had a pickup IFS. No owner around so I didn't get to talk to anyone.

A couple years later I found the same truck at a truck show with a name card in the window. Still couldn't find the owner but managed to take quite a few photos including one of that name card. It took six months more to get from having the owners name to finding him and arranging to meet him only about 100 miles from where I live.

Turns out he is (was) 78 years old and had built the truck 9 years earlier and had driven it tens of thousands of miles since. I liked hearing that he had drive it many miles and figured I'd found my expert.



He had not kept much record of the build and what little he had was old photographs. This was the only one that really showed any of the IFS swap part of his build.



Fortunately he remembered details of the build and I crawled under it with my camera and was able to take pictures and ask questions.

Then I saw him again at another truck show six months later and we've become friends.

Based on his truck and his experience with the finished truck I decided to go ahead with a similar swap on my own project.

Insisting on seeing at least one finished swap that was on the road and working well means I also got to ask a lot of questions about how it was done successfully. Those answers better prepared me to think through how to do my own.

Just a month or so after seeing this truck I met a guy who lives only a couple miles from me who had also done the same swap, but who has not ever quite finished it. Last time I talked to him he had driven it about 20 miles and was still working out bugs.

This is mine back in August.



It hasn't advanced very much because shortly after this picture was taken I was diagnosed with cancer. Beating that has become my priority project and this one has moved pretty slow as a result.

[DINK]

That's why I ask . It seems from sitting in my office here (HA HA) that once narrowed it would be a bolt in affair. Saw pics of a really good one just don't remember where. I've only thrown away half a dozen or so of those front ends. What are the complications of this swap?

[DINK]

Pictures just showed up! I have not even measured the track width difference between the stock axle VS the C10 front. Do you know the difference?

[winchster]

Originally Posted by DINK

Pictures just showed up! I have not even measured the track width difference between the stock axle VS the C10 front. Do you know the difference?

This is the information I find.
Wheelbase/Front Track/Rear Track

106.5, 65.75, 62.75--73-87 Chevy Blazer 4WD

131.5, 65.8, 62.7 -- 73-87 Chevy C-10, K-10 LWB

116.0, 59.5, NA,, -- 47-54 Chevy AD 1/2 ton

[mobileortho]

If you are concerned about the front wheels sticking out you can remedy this by choosing wheels with the right offset. Here's a closeup of mine.

[winchster]

I never spent the time to find the wheels with the right backspacing. Yours looks really good Robert.

[izonme13]

mobileortho, what size wheels are they and what kind of offset are you using. So also how much of a drop did you do. Im thnking 2" spindles, but how much spring drop? My dad & I are talking about trying this. But we also heard the track width was too wide. He has a 51 5 window and we have a 78 chevy front suspension sitting ready to use. Thanks Robert

[mr48chev]

Any photos of it with the fenders on it? I've always understood that those setups were pretty wide for AD trucks.

[DINK]

To clarify, the one I saw had a section of metal took out right in the middle of the cross member and was welded back together to fit the AD frame.

[mobileortho]

I have one on my 3600. I took the IFS from a '79 and narrowed it about an inch & a half and bolted it right in. Also added a set of dropped spindles and cut off 1 1/2 coils. Pictured are 16x7 Torq Thrust II's but I've purchased a set of 17x7 for the front & 17x11 for the rear. I also recently acquired some lower tubular A arms that I'll get around to when I recoup( prostate cancer). Hope that helps.

[winchster]

I had spacers machined out of incaloy *sp by a buddy of mine to make up the difference. So this is a bolt on affair.

Yes, with these particular wheels the tires do stick outside the fenders slightly. However, it matches the rearend that I used, and I think it looks better than the S10 conversions that tuck the tire too far under the fender in my opinion. Don't flame me, it's just my opinion.

This is the only pic I can find right now. Understand that in this picture the wheels are turned slightly left.

[winchster]

Here is a link to another shot of how far it sticks out.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...t/DSC_0011.jpg

[wyomech]

I helped my brother put a75 frontend under a 50 chevy about 15 years ago we didnt narrow it just put spacers on the frame.he drove it from wyo to arizona and back and I drove it from wyo to newyork and later to south dakota, rode great and handled good ,he sold it in rapid city and I dont know where it ended up at but was a fun truck

[Steve@OldSub.com]

Where were all you guys who have done this swap and driven the finished truck when I was looking for examples of it done and working? I must have posted the question on the wrong boards...

[winchster]

Originally Posted by Steve@OldSub.com

Where were all you guys who have done this swap and driven the finished truck when I was looking for examples of it done and working? I must have posted the question on the wrong boards...

Steve, I was unaware of this forum when I did my swap. I have not been an active member on here until recently. Sorry. If you need anything, let me know, and I am more than willing to share.

[nightmare_56]

anyone know the width of the c10 front form tire mount to tire mount?

also what is the width of the AD frame

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Great write-up Steve. And, good luck with the "priority project."
I hadn't thought too much about this kind of mod, mainly I guess because the front clip mod almost seems to make more sense. But, maybe not. Looking at these pics and giving it more thought, this just makes good sense.
But, what are the problems that the stovebolt guy encountered? It looks like it would be a pretty straight forward swap.

[Steve@OldSub.com]

Originally Posted by 63 & 64 Bowties

But, what are the problems that the stovebolt guy encountered? It looks like it would be a pretty straight forward swap.

I don't think he would call himself a Stovebolt'r since he is hardly ever there. However a number of people there reference his build and his published instructions when discussing this swap.

His problem was his placement of the steering box, which was based on the CPP type power steering conversion that uses a Chevy pickup box. He had converted to power steering before deciding on the IFS and didn't change the location of the box when he converted.

Since part of that kit is some weld on brackets I can easily see why someone might not want to change.

Because the box, or more accurately, the pitman arm and its pivot point, were not in the same relationship to the spindles as was originally designed by the GM engineers he ended up with a bad bump steer problem.

His write-up is here. His 1/31/2009 update is just a week or so after I toured his shop and told him how often I'd seen people on Stovebolt refer to his description of the process.

Andereggen figured out his problem and chose to go back to a straight axle as his solution because some of his thinking about what he wanted to do had changed. I believe he still very much believes in this swap.

I was aware of Robert's project when I was considering my own, but knew Robert was not finished yet with the project, and I believe still isn't really finished. I could not find the authors of any of the other IFS swap articles I could find on the web and like I said before, no one on Stovebolt, the HAMB or OldGMCTrucks responded that they had done the swap and had it on the road.

And that statement is not quite true. One guy on Stovebolt responded that we had done the swap for a customer about 20 years ago, and it was successful and still in use as far as he knew. Unfortunately he had no real pictures of what he had done, his memory of the details contradicted details in the one picture, and he no longer had access to the truck.

His example didn't seem helpful to me, and since he is located half way across the country from me it wasn't practical to go see it.

Last summer I discovered a guy in Northern California that had done the swap and loved driving the finished truck. By that time I'd already made my decision to go ahead and had just weeks before driven through Northern California collecting my daughter as she graduated from college. Her graduation ended my twice annual trips to California so I don't know when I'll be there again, but will try to see him and his truck when it does happen.

Today I pulled the IFS off my mostly bare frame and cleared all the junk stacked on and around it. I had already removed the rear axle and springs. Tomorrow I plan to tip it up on its side to allow thoroughly cleaning the bottom and to make enough room to store my Suburban in my shop.

Starting next week my butt belongs to the cancer docs and I won't have any shop time until July or August at best, so my project is on hold. I know I'm not the first to hit this kind of delay and probably not the last.

My primary thought this afternoon as I was working was will I be able to find this part when I need it in the summer or fall?

[winchster]

Steve, I am giving away my front saddle to a board member this weekend. I doubt he will want the spacers I had machined. If you want them, they are yours, I will ship them to you for free.