Dana 60 5 lug conversion

[PLYONS11]

Hey guys, I still have not been able to get my new truck back to my garage to start my project, but I have been making a kits of parts and ideas of what I want to do.

I have a 63 long bed 2wd 3/4ton with Dana 60. I have a few sets of 5 lug wheels that I'd really like to use, but I'd like to keep the D60. Has anyone been able to find a way to convert to 5 lug? The front is easy enough, but I'm having trouble finding a solution for the rear.

I've checked sites like moser for a new axel, but I'm coming up with nothing.


Thanks

[bama63]

maybe this...http://www.moserengineering.com/othe...d-dana-60.html and these axles...http://www.moserengineering.com/cust...ine-axles.html

[BigSix]

Any of the axle shaft companies will be able to get you 5 lug shafts. Just gonna have to work with them to get the right drums/disks and associated brackets for brakes.

[Captainfab]

I don't know if they are still available, but there was a company making billet aluminum 5 and 6 lug hubs for full floater differentials. I do know they were $$$. Otherwise there is no easy way to convert a full floating Dana ro to a 5 x 5 wheel stud pattern. The only way to do it is to cut off the spindles and weld on new aftermarket ends that will accept semi-floating aftermarket axles.

http://www.moserengineering.com/othe...lip-axles.html

Another option for a Dana 60 is a differential from a '80's model F250. Some of those had semi-floating Dana 60's. But they were 8 lug and too wide for the '60-'66 trucks. So one of those would have to be narrowed also.

I found a couple souces for the 5 and 6 lug aluminum hubs.

For the price of a pair of those hubs, you could have your Dana 60 narrowed, and buy new axles.

http://www.overtimecnc.com/parts.htm

http://www.bluetorchfab.com/Product/...r-Dana-60.aspx

[PLYONS11]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

I don't know if they are still available, but there was a company making billet aluminum 5 and 6 lug hubs for full floater differentials. I do know they were $$$. Otherwise there is no easy way to convert a full floating Dana ro to a 5 x 5 wheel stud pattern. The only way to do it is to cut off the spindles and weld on new aftermarket ends that will accept semi-floating aftermarket axles.

http://www.moserengineering.com/othe...lip-axles.html

Another option for a Dana 60 is a differential from a '80's model F250. Some of those had semi-floating Dana 60's. But they were 8 lug and too wide for the '60-'66 trucks. So one of those would have to be narrowed also.

I found a couple souces for the 5 and 6 lug aluminum hubs.

For the price of a pair of those hubs, you could have your Dana 60 narrowed, and buy new axles.

http://www.overtimecnc.com/parts.htm

http://www.bluetorchfab.com/Product/...r-Dana-60.aspx

Captainfab, I checked out these options and did some more research on the Dana 60 and I think I want to go a different direction. My objective is obviously to use existing 5 lug wheels that I already own, but also to do away with the large dia. hub that is on the Dana 60. My wheels are for a car. Based on my understanding of the Dana 60 this is not possible.

My next thought/question is would the frame of the 3/4ton LB GMC have provisions already in place for swapping in a 1/2ton axel from the same year. My truck is a leaf spring rear, but if I was able to bolt in a coil spring set up that would be great. The rear cross member appears to have holes already drilled in it for the control arm brackets, but I'm guessing they never made a long bed coil spring set up.

I have just recently gotten the truck back to my house to start working on it and I am finding it increasingly harder to find things for the 3/4 ton. Thanks again for answering all my questions.

I guess my ultimate question would be what would you guys all recommend as the best and cheapest option for a rear end that will accept a 5 lug small dia. wheel? I'm looking for the easiest option as well. Hopefully something I can complete myself without fabrication or welding. Maybe this isn't possible?

I didn't seek out a 3/4ton for my project. I realize it would have been much easier to start with a 1/2 ton short bed, but is was my grandfathers truck and I want to make it safe and comfortable to drive for years to come with parts that I will easily be able to find in the future.

Thanks again!!!

[bmur66]

I decided that Cragar Soft 8's in 8 lug was the best option for me in the same situation. Center caps cover the big hub.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crr-3987880/overview/

[PGSigns]

The car pattern wheels present a problem the 5 lug truck is still going to be 5X5. Tell us about this set of wheels. It looks to me that you will be spending a lot of money to be able to use them.
Jimmy

[PLYONS11]

Originally Posted by PGSigns

The car pattern wheels present a problem the 5 lug truck is still going to be 5X5. Tell us about this set of wheels. It looks to me that you will be spending a lot of money to be able to use them.
Jimmy

The wheels are the KMC Rockstar Car. 20x8 and 20x10. Really love the wheels and really want to use them.

So no go on swapping out a 1/2 ton rear end? I don't want to break the bank but I do have a "vision" that I want my truck to be. We all do! Problem is every vision I have involves a "car" style sporty wheel. I have found no 8 lug truck rims that fit into my vision. Although the cragar option is a nice and affordable one.

[PGSigns]

Trouble with fitting a truck to a wheel is bolt pattern and back spacing. Wheels for a lot of the modern cars have a bunch of back spacing and you may run into issues with fitment. Ecspecially on the rear. What you will have to do is pull the rear end out and put the wheels with the tires on them up under the truck and build a rear end to fit between them. You may find the springs are in the way and you need wider wheel tubs. We have done this in the past when doing rears in drag cars. In the front swap over to the 73 to 87 1/2 ton front and then see what you will need for spacers and have some made to the correct thickness to get the wheels where they need to be. The other option is to convert the truck to 1/2 ton with trailing arms and sell the wheels you have. The buy a new set of wheels with the correct bolt pattern and back spacing with the money you saved from not going with the other wheels.
Jimmy

[PLYONS11]

Originally Posted by PGSigns

Trouble with fitting a truck to a wheel is bolt pattern and back spacing. Wheels for a lot of the modern cars have a bunch of back spacing and you may run into issues with fitment. Ecspecially on the rear. What you will have to do is pull the rear end out and put the wheels with the tires on them up under the truck and build a rear end to fit between them. You may find the springs are in the way and you need wider wheel tubs. We have done this in the past when doing rears in drag cars. In the front swap over to the 73 to 87 1/2 ton front and then see what you will need for spacers and have some made to the correct thickness to get the wheels where they need to be. The other option is to convert the truck to 1/2 ton with trailing arms and sell the wheels you have. The buy a new set of wheels with the correct bolt pattern and back spacing with the money you saved from not going with the other wheels.
Jimmy

This all makes sense to me. I didn’t really think of the back spacing issue. I can easily sell the wheels I have and buy new ones that will work, but I am still after the sportier wheel that just can’t be found with the 8 lug pattern. I was planning on doing the front swap as you suggested.

So a 3/4 ton can be converted to 1/2 ton with trailing arms and coil springs? That was my very first though, but I didn’t know if the long beds ever came with coils and trailing arms. Is the cross member the same distance from the rear axle on a LWB as a SWB or are there longer trailing arms out there for the LWB?

The further I dig into this and learn the more I realize that I DO want a coil spring set up anyway. I would eventually like to bag this truck and it seems that there are a bunch of "bolt on" kits for coil sprug trucks.

The other option I was tossing around was the Ridetech Rear Strong Arm System, but that obviously blows my budget out of the water. @ 1600.00 it still seams reasonable though.

Thanks for the patience and time spent answering my questions. I'm sure I will have a billion more over the next few years as I get deeper into this resto. Prior to getting this truck I had very little knowledge of them and my biggest issue that I'm running into is just that. I don’t know what options and set ups were originally available for this truck. I also know very little about suspensions in general. Give me the parts and I can figure it out, but trying to figure out what parts I need is where I get lost.

[bmur66]

Some factory GM wheels. I like them but are only 6.5" wide so it limits how wide of a tire you can run. They look nice on our trucks though.

Here's a shot of the Cragars on my truck too

[PLYONS11]

Originally Posted by bmur66

Some factory GM wheels. I like them but are only 6.5" wide so it limits how wide of a tire you can run. They look nice on our trucks though.

Here's a shot of the Cragars on my truck too

Bmur66, your truck looks great! If I decide to stay stock I am for sure going to consider those wheels!

[PGSigns]

Long wheel base and truck arm is no problem. All the chevy's are that way.
Jimmy

[Captainfab]

From what I have been reading here, I would say the best way to get what you are after is to, sell the wheels you have and buy the same or similar wheels in a 5 x 5 wheel stud pattern. Then convert yout GMC to trailing arms from a C10 (long or shortbed) or C20. Then find a truck 12 bolt with the 5 x 5 wheel stud pattern. The only differential that will be a direct bolt in would be from a '71-'72 C10. The '73-'82 12 bolt or '80-'87 10 bolt is much easier to find, but will require cutting and welding to install. If you were to keep the leaf springs you might be able to bolt up a '73-'82 12 bolt or '80-'87 10 bolt to the leaf springs if there is enough wiggle room in the leaf spring bushings. Then all you would have to cut and weld are the shock mounts.

[PLYONS11]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

From what I have been reading here, I would say the best way to get what you are after is to, sell the wheels you have and buy the same or similar wheels in a 5 x 5 wheel stud pattern. Then convert yout GMC to trailing arms from a C10 (long or shortbed) or C20. Then find a truck 12 bolt with the 5 x 5 wheel stud pattern. The only differential that will be a direct bolt in would be from a '71-'72 C10. The '73-'82 12 bolt or '80-'87 10 bolt is much easier to find, but will require cutting and welding to install. If you were to keep the leaf springs you might be able to bolt up a '73-'82 12 bolt or '80-'87 10 bolt to the leaf springs if there is enough wiggle room in the leaf spring bushings. Then all you would have to cut and weld are the shock mounts.

Captain,

I had some issues with the site earlier and already posted this, so if this is a repeat I apologize, but I don't see it showing up.


Thanks! That's exactly the answer I was looking for. I found a 71 c10 12 bolt at a junkyard only 60 miles away. The guy said he also has the trailing arms if I want them, but they are 75 a piece. I got the measurements from the guy and it looks like the 12 bolt is 57" from backing plate to backing plate. The current Dana 60 is 55" from plate to plate, but considering how much farther out the full float axels stick out I assume I'll be ok. I think I'm going to go check it out this weekend. I guess my next step is going to be finding the trailing arm brackets that bolt to the crossmember. I have not been able to find those at a junk yard or aftermarket yet, but I have found new crossmember so that already have the brackets on them. Only issue I have with those after market parts is that all of them say they are for a swb single piece driveshaft only. I have yet to see one with provisions for the carrier bearing. I did however find a whole rear end setup that does have provisions for the carrier bearing.

Does anyone here have any experience with the Totally Tubular Rear suspension kit from CPP or the Ridetech Rear Strongarm system? I have called both companies and they both confirm this will work with a LWB truck. I really like the fact the the CPP system comes with coil springs, shocks, and c notch for 1300 bucks. It would also allow me to upgrade to bags in the future. The Ridetech system looks awesome, but their shocks and bags are crazy expensive. I was going to convert to a coil spring set up totally stock, but when I start pricing out parts I realize that unless I spend months sourcing parts from junk yards it's only going to be slightly more expensive to buy an aftermarket system. I also know myself and know that I'm going to want to upgrade down the road anyway, so why not just spend the money now and have all new clean and shinny parts to bolt up!

[Captainfab]

Measuring backing plate to backing plate is not the correct way to measure the width of a differential. Not all backing plates are the same distance from the wheel. You need to measure WMS to WMS (wheel mounting surface). That is the measurement that matters.

A '71 12 bolt will measure 63.5" WMS to WMS. I do not know the measurement of the Dana 60 that is under your '63, but a '63 to early '70 12 bolt measures 62" WMS to WMS.

[PGSigns]

I would get the trailing arms from him and put a Porterbuilt crossmember in it and track bar in it. The rest of the parts for shocks and springs will depend on how low you want to go. Member Pro Performance here on the boards carries these parts along with others to put you together what you need. Suspension market place is your next stop.
Jimmy

[Budget63]

What is the going rate for a '71-'72 12 bolt? Just wondering what I can expect to pay for one.

[PLYONS11]

Originally Posted by Budget63

What is the going rate for a '71-'72 12 bolt? Just wondering what I can expect to pay for one.

I have found them from 200-600 from car-part.com. The one I was going to buy was 250, unfortunately half way to the junk yard the guy called me and told me he sold it yesterday.......

The next closest one that I have found is 300 miles away.

[PGSigns]

Why don't you become a supporting member and post a want to buy ad in the classified section. You should be able to get all you need from folks here. I find most of my stuff on Craigs list.
Jimmy

[BigDan3131]

I'm keeping my 8 lugs just to be different and if you watch CL long enough you will get want you want in a wheel. I wanted chrome or polished aluminum wheels because everything in black is all everyone wants these days so the chrome ones are much cheaper. After hunting for about two months I got a set of MHT Wheels in 18" by 8.5" with the correct backspacing for $350.00. If I hadn't bought them I found several sets of 8 lug 20's that could work with billet adapters and still pay less for both than a new set of rims.

[PLYONS11]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Measuring backing plate to backing plate is not the correct way to measure the width of a differential. Not all backing plates are the same distance from the wheel. You need to measure WMS to WMS (wheel mounting surface). That is the measurement that matters.

A '71 12 bolt will measure 63.5" WMS to WMS. I do not know the measurement of the Dana 60 that is under your '63, but a '63 to early '70 12 bolt measures 62" WMS to WMS.

Will the 12 bolt from a 69 or 70 bolt up? I assume I already know the answer to this........ The reason I ask is because I have been able to find a couple 69-70 12 bolts close by that are under 250. I can get a 71 locally but it would be shipped to the salvage yard from out of state and cost me 450+. I figure I could make up the width difference with wheel spacers or a rim with a different offset. Even at the cost of spacers I would still be under 450.

The Dana 60 I currently have measures aprx 65" from WMS to WMS so maybe it wouldn't even really be an issue. I plan to run D52 calipers with Captains adapters so I can have an e brake. Currently I have the e brake that's on the trans and it doesn't work!

[PGSigns]

The rears will bolt up depending on it it is a trailing arm or leaf spring rear. The majority are trailing arm. The GMC's had leafs. Have you decided on the full plan for this truck? Is lowering and disc brakes in its future? Knowing the final goal will help with the best way to get there.
Jimmy

[PLYONS11]

Originally Posted by PGSigns

The rears will bolt up depending on it it is a trailing arm or leaf spring rear. The majority are trailing arm. The GMC's had leafs. Have you decided on the full plan for this truck? Is lowering and disc brakes in its future? Knowing the final goal will help with the best way to get there.
Jimmy

The plan is somewhat fluid, but lowering and disk brakes are at the top of the list and a sure thing. I plan to use drop spindles in the front and the rear is kind of up in the air. I have looked at a few product including ones suggested on this thread. Eventually I will be bagging it. I'm not looking to lay frame or anything, just a modest drop with adjustability from the bags. I can handle a bolt on c notch, but I don't want to get into anything crazy.

For the rear I am going to convert my 3/4 ton leaf set up to a half ton coil set up. That is why I have been looking at the 69-72 12 bolts. All that I have found are coil spring rears. I have not decided if I will be using stock trailing arms or after market, either. If the TA's come with the rear when I buy it I will likely use them for the time being. As noted by Captain, the '71-'72 12 bolt will bolt on and it only slightly more narrow from WMS to WMS. The '69-'70 is 1.5 inches more narrow still at 62". That would leave me with 3" to make up. I think I can figure out how to make that width up at the wheels, but I don't know if the coil spring and trailing arm mounting spots will be in the same area or if that 3" loss is going to cause a problem with the disk brakes and/or interferer with the wheels (ex: wheels rub on trailing arms. I would like to have a wider tire in the rear (maybe like a 275/35/20), but that's not necessary. If it doesn't work its ok. I have sold the wheels that I was going to use, so from that aspect I have a blank slate.

Moving on from there, I plan to do either a BBC 496 or a SBC 383. I am leaning toward the 496, but again, its all fluid at this point. I plan to have HP in the range of 400-500. I am not going to be taking this to the track or strip so strength and longevity are only in the back of my mind. For what I will be using it for I feel that the 12 bolt will be plenty reliable and strong. Not to mention it will be the easiest.

Right now the 305 runs great and the muncie 4 speed also has no problems. I would like to get the suspension components all worked out and installed and then I would likely drive it as is until I can save up some more money for the engine/trans. I'm also not sure if the drive shaft will still be the proper length or if the u joints from the dana 60 are the same as that of the 12 bolt, but I will cross that bridge when it comes. Right now my main focus is just getting the rear end set up and converting everything over to power disks.

Thanks!

[chevy_mike]

Personally, the first thing I would decide on is what lug pattern you want. It will make a difference in what factory parts you can get from a junkyard versus what you have to buy new from the aftermarket companies. 6 lug makes it easy to find a '63-'70 rear end but there are no factory 6 lug rotors for a disc brake conversion for the front. You have to buy the conversion from an aftermarket company and will never be able to walk into a parts store for a replacement. 5 lug means the only factory rear ends are '71-'72, which are much harder to find and command a premium in price but you can then use '71-'87 factory rotors, which you can buy in any parts store.

Once you have the lug pattern figured out, then decide if you want to swap to a coil rear suspension or leave the leafs. Coils are more common and yes, all of the '63-'72 trailing arm setups will retrofit as they are all the same length. Only the crossmember moves depending if a short bed or long bed. I don't think your frame has the panhard bar mount, so you'll likely need to get that off another frame or fab something.

My old '65 truck, someone had converted it from a trailing arm to leaf springs, as they swapped everything over from a '73 truck, to get the 5 lug conversion. I was going to swap it back to trailing arms as I like the ride better but sold it before I ever did it.

Good luck.