Header Flange Stiffeners - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Russell · 05-31-2005, 01:07 AM

Who was it that was making the header flange stiffeners on the forum? They were three peice units that were about an inch thick, They went around head side of the flange, and forced the flanges to seal tightly rather than leak like headers always do. I'm sick and tired of leaking ticky exhaust, so I wanna buy a set of these things to make things work a bit better!

Also, do you guys have any tricks for making the head to header seal better? I straightened the flanges out the best I could using a straight edge. Would using double gaskets work?

Mudder · 05-31-2005, 01:14 AM

Ok, here's how I fixed mine about 15 years ago. I cut each flange twice. Once each side of the center tubes. The flanges are probably warped from welding the tubes on. Then I used the metalic manifold gaskets with the little ears on the sides to catch the bolts. There are 3 gaskets for each side. Tighten bolts and forget about em. In 15 years I have had 1 bolt come loose and I dont think I got it tight in the first place. Trust me.

Russell · 05-31-2005, 01:18 AM

Sounds like a good plan, I've already got some metallic manifold gaskets, so I think I'll give your idea a shot! Worth it, seeing as they are fairly inexpensive headers

I would just weld the pipes straight to the collectors, but the collectors are much larger than the pipes are, lol That and it would be a huge pain in the butt if I ever had to take the exhaust off...

Mudder · 05-31-2005, 01:24 AM

I never had problems with my collectors leaking.

Russell · 05-31-2005, 01:52 AM

My collectors leak worse than the head to header connection. When I first did the exhaust on that truck, I bent the triangles, DOH, leaked ever since, and there is no way I can get them straight. Thats why I was hoping I could find some flange stiffeners

Tom · 05-31-2005, 03:00 AM

Cheap headers leak, exspencive headers don't. Headman elite's have 14g tubing and 3/8" flanges, those thing will never warp unless you do somthing very very bad to them. They also use the ball and flange collector, those seem to work very well. They also cost $279 last time I looked for a 78 c10 SB. I have the standerd headmans, and they leak at the collector a little bit no matter what gasket I use. They only cost a little over a $100 too

86swb · 05-31-2005, 07:51 AM

I have always doubled up on header gaskets and have had no problems.

PHOENIX · 05-31-2005, 12:53 PM

For collectors and header to head:
Use better hardware and gaskets.
Use locking nut and bolts like stage 8.
Use copper and the stock type donut gaskets.

f.monroe · 05-31-2005, 01:37 PM

On my headers (Hedman) I straightened the triangular flange and then had it mig welded to the header on the engine side of the flange . I then had the collector flange welded on the exhaust side of the flange . After that I ground off that little ring that they actually use to seal against the gasket . This way the entire gasket surface is used to seal . The reason I did this is because that in how the flanges and collectors on my $500 Hooker Super Comps are done . It makes for a much better seal . The truck they went on never had a collector leak . The only difference is that mine were off . You would have to spend an afternoon removing yours to do this but I think it will solve the problem for good . Frank

Russell · 05-31-2005, 01:59 PM

Another good idea frank! My pipe flanges are welded on solid, but the headers are not. I've got the headers out of the truck right now, and it is very easy to put them in / take them out. So I'll weld those flanges up against the pipe as well. I can probally get them fairly straight. I like your idea of flattening the gasket too -- That should help a fair bit!

Thanks for all the good advice all!

Mudder · 05-31-2005, 02:58 PM

I'm using stainless bolts in the heads and they are soft so you can't really get down and tighten them like the regular header bolts. They still stay tight, after cutting the flanges. My collector flanges are welded. You can see the cut in the flange in this pic. It's not a big deal, but it does work. Oh and it makes getting the bolts started easier too.

f.monroe · 05-31-2005, 03:11 PM

Mudder67 .. Nice Engine compartment .
Russell .. I know you have thought of this , but make sure that you align the bolt holes in the flanges before welding .. Frank

f.monroe · 05-31-2005, 03:17 PM

Mudder67 .. Nice Engine compartment .
Russell .. I know you have thought of this , but make sure that you align the bolt holes in the flanges before welding .. Frank

Russell · 05-31-2005, 03:40 PM

hehe, yeah, amazingly enough I did think of that!

Often times that is the type of thing that I would forget though :P

Mudder · 05-31-2005, 03:54 PM

Monroe...thanks. As much as its driven its hard to keep that way.

72MARIO · 05-31-2005, 05:41 PM

Copper gaskets.

MylilBowTie · 05-31-2005, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f.monroe

On my headers (Hedman) I straightened the triangular flange and then had it mig welded to the header on the engine side of the flange . I then had the collector flange welded on the exhaust side of the flange . After that I ground off that little ring that they actually use to seal against the gasket . This way the entire gasket surface is used to seal . The reason I did this is because that in how the flanges and collectors on my $500 Hooker Super Comps are done . It makes for a much better seal . The truck they went on never had a collector leak . The only difference is that mine were off . You would have to spend an afternoon removing yours to do this but I think it will solve the problem for good . Frank

Have any pictures or illustrations?

f.monroe · 05-31-2005, 11:04 PM

I dont have the truck anymore . Take a look at this link
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../f4201HKR.html

Here is exactly what they look like when you weld them as I am talking about . You can see it perfect in this link .

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...f11030HKR.html

You can kinda see the flanges I am talking about . There is not that little flared ring that the collector rotates on . You weld it on the side opposite of the flared ring and then grind that ring off . Make sure the flange is straight (flat) first . On headers with the rotating flange , the only thing that the gasket seals on is that little 3/16th's inch flare . That is why they blow out. This way the entire flange clamps the gasket since they are the same size .If anyone has a closeup of a Super Comp, and can post a picture of the collector flanges , it would show you exactly what i am talking about since that is where I got the idea . Frank

MylilBowTie · 05-31-2005, 11:24 PM

Sounds like a good idea, but im still a little lost on what is getting cut off.

**crossy** · 06-01-2005, 12:33 AM

Hi-heat silicone sealant. DAVE

*1FaastC10* · 06-01-2005, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

Cheap headers leak, exspencive headers don't. Headman elite's have 14g tubing and 3/8" flanges, those thing will never warp unless you do somthing very very bad to them. They also use the ball and flange collector, those seem to work very well. They also cost $279 last time I looked for a 78 c10 SB. I have the standerd headmans, and they leak at the collector a little bit no matter what gasket I use. They only cost a little over a $100 too

try taking a little advice once in a while, and trying something different. i have said and have seen posted many times to people experiencing header flange leaks to use manifold gaskets rather than header gaskets. i have run Flowtech headers on all of my C10s. they're 79.99 a set at Auto Zone, cheap headers. they also have a 1/4" flange. so accodring to your theory, they should be about as leaky as they get. guess what... i've run manifold gaskets on all of them, and have yet to have a leak, so long as i didnt remove the headers. cheap headers, Fel Pro manifold gaskets, and Mr Gasket headear bolts, or whatever comes with the Flowtech headers. i also run dead soft aluminum collector gaskets. no leaks anywhere for me.

86swb · 06-01-2005, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossy

Hi-heat silicone sealant. DAVE

The Hi-heat silicone sealant can be put around both ends of the headers? Can you get this at Advance? I am sure you use this along with the gaskets.

**crossy** · 06-01-2005, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86swb

The Hi-heat silicone sealant can be put around both ends of the headers? Can you get this at Advance? I am sure you use this along with the gaskets.

The hi-heat is ususally red or orange. OR use the ULTRA COPPER instead of the ULTRA blue- black you normally would. The hi-heat can be bought anywhere that sells parts. A thin smear on both sides of the cheap chrome looking , stock type, manifold gaskets(appx. $5 set!) that Jeremy mentions above. I too am running a small block with cheapo flowtechs currently and no header leaks. I made my own collector gaskets from hi-heat garlock matl. I can get from work and I goop them up with the silicone also.
LET IT SET UP A FEW HOURS BEFORE YOU FIRE IT UP!

I had a set that were soooo bad once on a small block that I cut the flanges and had to run double thick gaskets on the center ports.
DAVE

Trimman · 06-01-2005, 08:25 AM

I'm with Jerermy. I've the same setup on my headers no leaks for three years

05-31-2005, 01:07 AM	#1
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Header Flange Stiffeners Who was it that was making the header flange stiffeners on the forum? They were three peice units that were about an inch thick, They went around head side of the flange, and forced the flanges to seal tightly rather than leak like headers always do. I'm sick and tired of leaking ticky exhaust, so I wanna buy a set of these things to make things work a bit better! Also, do you guys have any tricks for making the head to header seal better? I straightened the flanges out the best I could using a straight edge. Would using double gaskets work? __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap) Last edited by Russell; 05-31-2005 at 01:09 AM.

05-31-2005, 01:14 AM	#2
Mudder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: East Central, MO Posts: 11,336	Ok, here's how I fixed mine about 15 years ago. I cut each flange twice. Once each side of the center tubes. The flanges are probably warped from welding the tubes on. Then I used the metalic manifold gaskets with the little ears on the sides to catch the bolts. There are 3 gaskets for each side. Tighten bolts and forget about em. In 15 years I have had 1 bolt come loose and I dont think I got it tight in the first place. Trust me. Attached Images

05-31-2005, 01:18 AM	#3
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Sounds like a good plan, I've already got some metallic manifold gaskets, so I think I'll give your idea a shot! Worth it, seeing as they are fairly inexpensive headers I would just weld the pipes straight to the collectors, but the collectors are much larger than the pipes are, lol That and it would be a huge pain in the butt if I ever had to take the exhaust off... __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap) Last edited by Russell; 05-31-2005 at 01:19 AM.

05-31-2005, 01:52 AM	#5
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	My collectors leak worse than the head to header connection. When I first did the exhaust on that truck, I bent the triangles, DOH, leaked ever since, and there is no way I can get them straight. Thats why I was hoping I could find some flange stiffeners __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

05-31-2005, 03:00 AM	#6
Tom driving is in my blood Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 5,717	Cheap headers leak, exspencive headers don't. Headman elite's have 14g tubing and 3/8" flanges, those thing will never warp unless you do somthing very very bad to them. They also use the ball and flange collector, those seem to work very well. They also cost $279 last time I looked for a 78 c10 SB. I have the standerd headmans, and they leak at the collector a little bit no matter what gasket I use. They only cost a little over a $100 too __________________ -78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me.

05-31-2005, 01:24 AM	#4
Mudder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: East Central, MO Posts: 11,336	I never had problems with my collectors leaking.

05-31-2005, 07:51 AM	#7
86swb Born a Chevy Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Navarre, Florida Posts: 10,221	I have always doubled up on header gaskets and have had no problems. __________________ John or 86 (Viet Nam combat Vet-BIG RED ONE) '65-'66 1986 Chevy SWB Silverado 1984 Chevy Longbed Silverado New Kia Sportage (Wife's car and she loves it) CHEVY, American made w/pride! If you can read this, YOU NEED TO THANK A TEACHER! If you can read this in ENGLISH, PLEASE THANK A SOLDIER! GOD BLESS AMERICA AND BLESS OUR FIGHTING TROOPS

05-31-2005, 12:53 PM	#8
PHOENIX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 4,703	For collectors and header to head: Use better hardware and gaskets. Use locking nut and bolts like stage 8. Use copper and the stock type donut gaskets. __________________ * AVOID: LOPER'S PERMORANCE / LOPERSPEED.COM OF PHOENIX, AZ & COTTMAN TRANSMISSION *

05-31-2005, 01:37 PM	#9
f.monroe Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Caldwell,Tx. Posts: 3,648	On my headers (Hedman) I straightened the triangular flange and then had it mig welded to the header on the engine side of the flange . I then had the collector flange welded on the exhaust side of the flange . After that I ground off that little ring that they actually use to seal against the gasket . This way the entire gasket surface is used to seal . The reason I did this is because that in how the flanges and collectors on my $500 Hooker Super Comps are done . It makes for a much better seal . The truck they went on never had a collector leak . The only difference is that mine were off . You would have to spend an afternoon removing yours to do this but I think it will solve the problem for good . Frank

05-31-2005, 01:59 PM	#10
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Another good idea frank! My pipe flanges are welded on solid, but the headers are not. I've got the headers out of the truck right now, and it is very easy to put them in / take them out. So I'll weld those flanges up against the pipe as well. I can probally get them fairly straight. I like your idea of flattening the gasket too -- That should help a fair bit! Thanks for all the good advice all! __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

05-31-2005, 02:58 PM	#11
Mudder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: East Central, MO Posts: 11,336	I'm using stainless bolts in the heads and they are soft so you can't really get down and tighten them like the regular header bolts. They still stay tight, after cutting the flanges. My collector flanges are welded. You can see the cut in the flange in this pic. It's not a big deal, but it does work. Oh and it makes getting the bolts started easier too. Attached Images Last edited by Mudder; 05-31-2005 at 03:07 PM.

05-31-2005, 03:11 PM	#12
f.monroe Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Caldwell,Tx. Posts: 3,648	Mudder67 .. Nice Engine compartment . Russell .. I know you have thought of this , but make sure that you align the bolt holes in the flanges before welding .. Frank

05-31-2005, 03:17 PM	#13
f.monroe Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Caldwell,Tx. Posts: 3,648	Mudder67 .. Nice Engine compartment . Russell .. I know you have thought of this , but make sure that you align the bolt holes in the flanges before welding .. Frank

05-31-2005, 03:40 PM	#14
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	hehe, yeah, amazingly enough I did think of that! Often times that is the type of thing that I would forget though :P __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

05-31-2005, 03:54 PM	#15
Mudder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: East Central, MO Posts: 11,336	Monroe...thanks. As much as its driven its hard to keep that way.



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05-31-2005, 05:41 PM	#16
72MARIO Registered User Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Huntsville Ontario Canada Posts: 4,052	Copper gaskets. __________________ 1968 Suburban numbers matching all original truck now equipped with 6.0/4L80 on Accuair http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=625017 1967 C/20 6.0/4L80 Roofing Truck 1990 V2500 Suburban "Plow Truck" 2005 TAHOE DD

05-31-2005, 11:04 PM	#18
f.monroe Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Caldwell,Tx. Posts: 3,648	I dont have the truck anymore . Take a look at this link http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../f4201HKR.html Here is exactly what they look like when you weld them as I am talking about . You can see it perfect in this link . http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...f11030HKR.html You can kinda see the flanges I am talking about . There is not that little flared ring that the collector rotates on . You weld it on the side opposite of the flared ring and then grind that ring off . Make sure the flange is straight (flat) first . On headers with the rotating flange , the only thing that the gasket seals on is that little 3/16th's inch flare . That is why they blow out. This way the entire flange clamps the gasket since they are the same size .If anyone has a closeup of a Super Comp, and can post a picture of the collector flanges , it would show you exactly what i am talking about since that is where I got the idea . Frank Last edited by f.monroe; 05-31-2005 at 11:10 PM.

05-31-2005, 11:24 PM	#19
MylilBowTie Right turn Clyde Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 2,911	Sounds like a good idea, but im still a little lost on what is getting cut off. __________________ 1974 C25 LWB: 454 4bbl Carb / TH400 / 3.73 1992 Camaro RS 305 TBI

06-01-2005, 12:33 AM	#20
crossy Oh,you can't buy that new Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsville,N.J. 08070, USA Posts: 2,039	Hi-heat silicone sealant. DAVE __________________ "been there, done that, ruined the T-shirt". 2007 LBZ GMC Sierra, ECSB 2006 LM7 RCSB Silverado 98 Vortec project. 94,3500,6.5L 4L80 81 SWB GMC POS finally gone 73 Pinto, stock, w/CragarSS's-eww LOTS of Cummins trucks.

06-01-2005, 08:25 AM	#24
Trimman Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hixson TN. Posts: 74	I'm with Jerermy. I've the same setup on my headers no leaks for three years __________________ 82 C-10 Scottsdale LB owned since 89 350 crate vortec heads Crane 1.6 full rollers edelbrock 1406 edelbrock performer eps intake dynomax headers/flowmaster 70's BTO 700r4 level 3 custom 2 piece driveshaft 12 bolt gov loc w/3.08

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