Make it handle

[72hotrod]

Hey, oldspowered67C10, I really like the placement of your swaybar, been wondering about something like that. Please let us know how it works when you get done. How about your exhaust routing? I'd like to end up there, just can't find a happy way to get there.

And to the rest of you guys, thanks for sharing. Good stuff!

[BHyatt]

I snagged a rear sway bar from a mid '90's Suburban at the local Pick A Part for $12 with all the brackets and bolts to attach to frame. I have a front sway bar that I just installed from a '72 Suburban and I hope that the combination cuts down on body-roll.

I need to fabricate some perches to mount on the underside of the rear end to bolt the rear sway bar up. I like cheap so I hope that it works out well. I have yet to pull the bar under the truck and see how the frame attachments will line up as they may also require some fabrication. I hope to test fit this weekend.

[robnolimit]

This stuff is great. There are more ways than one to skin a cat. Everyone will have there favorites. As we all know, Trucks are plagued with a weight issue. Too much, too high, and too far forward. Moving weight can do wonders, even the things that don't seem obvious. And, it's cheap. Tank, and battery are easy ones, but Nascar teams would kill to move the motor down and back an inch. How about small cap distributers, and/or firewall setbacks, these will pay off in the long run. When it comes to rear suspension setups, I prefere 4 bars, or trailing arms. One thing is for sure, 'short' bar set ups - SUCK! To get a truck to stick at all, you have to transfer the weight slow and smooth, that means longer bars. 25 to 30 % of the wheelbase will help. Too long and the bars will flex. WIDE mounting of the links, springs and shocks is desired. If your building, and you mount inboard of the rails, you already lost.

OK, two guys drinkin on barstools. One barstool has thin legs that go straight down to the floor from under the seat, about 10' apart. The other barstool has thicker legs that angle out to a wider base on the floor, about 18". Now, as guys do, they start to agrue about important stuff, like big block vs small block, and soon the push each other. Who is heading into the sawdust and peanut shells? (thats the kind of place I like to hang out in) - on the wide stance barstool.

[BHyatt]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

OK, two guys drinkin on barstools. One barstool has thin legs that go straight down to the floor from under the seat, about 10' apart. The other barstool has thicker legs that angle out to a wider base on the floor, about 18". Now, as guys do, they start to agrue about important stuff, like big block vs small block, and soon the push each other. Who is heading into the sawdust and peanut shells? (thats the kind of place I like to hang out in) - on the wide stance barstool.

Obviously the guy with the 10 foot wide barstool will be more stable than one 18" wide. LOL!

[Hottrucks]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Who is heading into the sawdust and peanut shells? (thats the kind of place I like to hang out in) .

me 2 but the guy stuck paying the tab is the looser!!!...

good info thanx

[robnolimit]

Oldspowered67 makes agood point. And that is that everything has to work together. If the front and rear are not securely connected in the middle, its a lost battle. Boxing is the most common aproach, but this can become a mistake. Ladder style frames will ALWAYS flex. Yes, we can reduce the flex, but going all out and welding 100% us a mistake. If we know that it is going to flex, and you stop the rail from twisting, then it WILL eventually CRACK at the crossmembers. So here is what I recomend. MEASURE the inside height of your frame. It should be 5 3/4" or so. Have a steel shop bend up some C rails for you, 5 3/4' (or insert your rail height here) x 2 1/2" wide, by 6 feet long. Once you get these home, cut them to fit into your chassis. Leave about a 1" gap from each crossmember, and span as far forward and rearward as you can. If you are using a bottom mount trans crossmember, good, but be smart and weld the nuts in place before boxing. Fit your boxing C rails in the chassis about 1 1/2", so that you are also making the frame an inch wider, as well as boxing it. put a one inch long weld about every 4 inches, thats all. This will cover the straight middle section of the chassis. Crap, I forgot to tell you, MAKE SURE that you truck is blocked up amd measured to be SQUARE and LEVEL. Take your time, there's no turning back. Next, get about 40 feet of 1 1/2' x .120 wall tubing. Its time to make triangles. Triangles are strong, squares are week, look at the pyramids, still here. Starting at the front cab mounts, on the inside of the frame, fit a tube from the boxing plate diagonaly back to the crossmember on the other side. Fit the tube to the crossmember, not the frame rail. Repeat on the other side, and cut and notch to fit the first tube. This will make an X above the back of the trans. The tops of the tubes should be close to the top of the rails. From the back side of that crossmember, make a second X to reach back as far as you can. Some trucks will a extra crossmember in the middle, passing your X through this is better than making a third X. I try to get the rear of the second X to be inboard of the rear suspension mounts, since thats where all the acceleration load is. But the farther back the better. You can do this for a few hundred bucks, and you will feel the difference. And thats all I have to say about that. Have a great Labor Day Weekend. Cheers.

[aggie91]

I really like this kind of stuff. I have always wanted to do a truck for autocrossing eversince I did it in my old blue 65 while in college many years ago, just have never had the funds to do it the why I want to.

Rob - your new chassis under the silver F--- is awsome. I hope to see it in person sometime. Are you taking it to the Goodguys show at TMS in October?

[lofly'a]

i really like this setup and the exhaust routing.............[ATTACH][/ATTACH]

[Codez67Chevy]

How low can I go on my 3/4 ton coil suspension with out buying spindles? I've got to go cheap for now.

[agtractorjoe]

i just did a hotchkis full TVS and its awesome !

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by agtractorjoe

i just did a hotchkis full TVS and its awesome !

congrats, good lookin truck

[merlin3]

Rob-i have a 72 c10 lowered 4.5 in the front with drop springs and drop spindles. rear is 7.5 the truck has those skinny drag tires and rims on the front ,all tie rods are new,new power steering kit the truck has a 509 big block the truck drives really sloppy were would you start? i read to install coil overs.thanks

[merlin3]

the truck seems to wander all over the road an a lot of play in the wheel.

[merlin3]

Rob; i have a c10 with a 509 big block lowered 4.5 in the front with drop springs and spindles the rear is lowered 7.5 with drop springs, blocks and a c-notch.the front suspension is mostly new with a new power steering kit.the problem is it rides kinda sloppy it has those skinny drag tires and rims on the front [old drag truck].were would you start on the front end?different tires?

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by merlin3

Rob; i have a c10 with a 509 big block lowered 4.5 in the front with drop springs and spindles the rear is lowered 7.5 with drop springs, blocks and a c-notch.the front suspension is mostly new with a new power steering kit.the problem is it rides kinda sloppy it has those skinny drag tires and rims on the front [old drag truck].were would you start on the front end?different tires?

1) alignment - and as usual, get some caster in it.
2) check the Idler arm, they wear out quick, and if it's loose, she'll wander.
3) a lot of the old 'skinnies' and bias plys, and they wander, New radials.

[Mtrhd329]

Thanks rob. It was this thread that helped a ton. Its fun to see the faces of the guys running "race" cars at the events look at me when i drive up. Harnesses are on the way and i will be building a harness bar for them. That should help keep me in the seat better.

[Bowtiguy]

After getting my project on the road ( 6 months of ball busting) I'm in the fine tuning stage. I settled on a 3" Front 5" rear drop running my 20X8.5" 255's on the front and 20X10" w/ 295s on the rear.

Currently running..

-3/4" lower control arm mod for caster ( hands off wheel at 65mph, garage alignment)
- NLE front /rear swap bars (except I flipped the rear bar to a rear over the tank mounting position)
-NLE power R&P
- NLE Rear Pan hard bar
-NLE rear shock relocation brackets
-POL front shock relocation brackets
- CPP shocks front/rear
-CPP springs ( -1" front with 2" modular spindles; -3" rear w/ 2" blocks)
- all ball joints/bushings/brakes are new

I have to say it handles VERY well and my last ride was a HEAVILY modified C6Z06 that I road raced with NASA.

I'm considering measuring out and putting Ridetech HQ shocks on all four corners. The strong arms and coilovers would be nice, but for $2k I'm most of the way to a twin turbo setup for my LC9/TR6060 combo ;-)

Questions #1: Rob, do you rec the ridetech's to be used with your rear shock relo kit?

Questions #2: Is there a higher quality spring option out there ( Eibach, Hotchkis, etc..) that would...

1) work well with the NLE components

and

2) soften the ride a touch similar to the double coil over springs I had on the vette w/o going coilovers on the front of the truck?

BTW, I've been too focused to do a build thread but I hope to add a "how to" for the installation of the TR6060 trans out of a 14' SS Camaro.

[robnolimit]

right you are.

[N2TRUX]

So wide track is better than narrow, which of course makes sense. See, I told my wife there was a desirable side to being low and wide. Now I can prove it makes me handle better.

Got any theories for my exhaust gas concerns...

[Shane]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

Got any theories for my exhaust gas concerns...

the leaner the mixture the hotter the exhaust gas

[HarrolLS1]

Good Thread!!!

[SBTork]

I am a little curious about getting my suburban to handle better. It's lowered now but I am wondering if anyone has used ridetech's rear airbar system or cpp's trailing arm system on a suburban before. If so, what were the gains and how was it done? I want to add a rear sway bar in the near future to get me by but this is planning for the long term. I don't have huge fabrication skills so something almost bolt on like the above mentioned systems would be a good start. Any opinions/ideas on making the tank a little better in the twistys?

[oldspowered67C10]

N2TRUX, yes its a welder series kit, I was very pleased woth the quality and price, I would have liked to have it mount outboard of the frame rails but thre was too much stuff already out there to make it practical. Heres some pics of the exhaust routing.

[robnolimit]

Yes, we will in Tx in october for the goodguys show. I will have the Bullit with us for the autocross. Nice job Oldspowered67, Very nice.

[72hotrod]

That exhaust through the frame idea seems the best ever for routing around the problem areas between the rails. Can anyone comment on the best way to beef up the frame to be just as strong as before? Not a good place to take any chances, but looks like it would be worth the effort.