5 lug rear axles installed...Problem

[caminokid]

Ok so what I did was used the 69 rear end casing and the posi. Axles went right in no problem. They are a little longer then they should be....and the problem is the drums dont sit all the way to the backing plate. I see about a 1/4 between the backing plate and the drum.

I should add these are 77 12 axles.

Heres some pics to get a better idea.








I dont know if I should get longer bolts and shim the backing plate or get the axles shorten.

[cdowns]

the later year axels are longer than the 68's you need to have them shortened if possible or get custom axels built from a place like currie or moser to use the 68housing//or get a 70 71 or 72 housing

[caminokid]

More


The axles seem to sit close in there but dont touch.

The other problem I seen...this...

I took it out to inspect it and found one of the plates was cracked. I welded it. Isnt there supposed to be something holding this together?

[Jim_PA]

I ran the wider brake drums for a while without issue (I believe they are 2.5" from a late-70's truck.)

I was using 71-72 axles in my 68 housing.

[c10addict]

I never heard of these axles working with bigger drums... When building my 68 I ran to the bone yard and got a set of 72 5 lug axles and learned the hard way they didn't fit... Nothing like laying in the mud fighting off bees, snakes and rusted bolts for a few hours to find out they didn't fit... That was long before I knew anout this forum!!

[nightmare]

Originally Posted by caminokid

More


The axles seem to sit close in there but dont touch.

The other problem I seen...this...

I took it out to inspect it and found one of the plates was cracked. I welded it. Isnt there supposed to be something holding this together?

Those plates and springs are what makes the unit a posi. If I remember correctly, the only thing holding those in there is the center pin (the vertical bar in the top pic). Other than that, the sheer pressure from the springs does the rest.

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by c10addict

I never heard of these axles working with bigger drums... When building my 68 I ran to the bone yard and got a set of 72 5 lug axles and learned the hard way they didn't fit... Nothing like laying in the mud fighting off bees, snakes and rusted bolts for a few hours to find out they didn't fit... That was long before I knew anout this forum!!

Yeah, the extra depth in the wider drums just fills space, you retain the 2" shoes.

[cameeks]

This is from the CPP web site.

Part # 6369RAC5 ---1963-69 5-lug Conversion Axle, pair --- $289.00

Well they have a copy lock here is the description page http://www.classicperform.com/Store/.../6369RAC-5.htm

[royo]

Originally Posted by caminokid

Ok so what I did was used the 69 rear end casing and the posi. Axles went right in no problem. They are a little longer then they should be....and the problem is the drums dont sit all the way to the backing plate. I see about a 1/4 between the backing plate and the drum.

I should add these are 77 12 axles.

Heres some pics to get a better idea.








I dont know if I should get longer bolts and shim the backing plate or get the axles shorten.

If your short on funds i dont see where it would hurt to shim the backing plates.

[caminokid]

Originally Posted by royo

If your short on funds i dont see where it would hurt to shim the backing plates.

I was thinking the same and adding deeper drums. I might be ok then.

[caminokid]

Originally Posted by cameeks

This is from the CPP web site.

Part # 6369RAC5 ---1963-69 5-lug Conversion Axle, pair --- $289.00

Well they have a copy lock here is the description page http://www.classicperform.com/Store/.../6369RAC-5.htm

Its an option if I cant get these to work short of getting them shortened.
Thanks

[Longhorn Man]

A lot of people get away with wider drums, but you would be running a part of the axle shaft on the bearings, that was not designed to take that kind of wear, and adding leverage on top of that.

[caminokid]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

A lot of people get away with wider drums, but you would be running a part of the axle shaft on the bearings, that was not designed to take that kind of wear, and adding leverage on top of that.

I didnt think of that Andy...good call! Well maybe shortening the axles is an idea. I wish I had a better welder. I think I would try it. I will find out how much it will take.

[Longhorn Man]

like I said, a lot of people get away with it.. but personally, I wouldn't do it. I've lost a wheel at 45 MPH once (actually i was passenger) and it scared the CRAP out of me.

[scottrod71]

I had the same problem on my '69 when I swapped over from 6 lug to 5. Easy solution is to buy them from ECE or LMC. I'm sure others carry them as well. Direct bolt-up and easy swap.

[LONGHAIR]

Well maybe shortening the axles is an idea. I wish I had a better welder. I think I would try it. I will find out how much it will take.

I don't think you can shorten C-clip style axles. The splined section is larger diameter than the rest of the axle. The only axles that can be shortened are the ones that get bigger right behind the splined area. They cut of the needed amount, turn the larger diameter down to the correct size, then re-cut the splines.
A welder is of no use to you in this......

I don't think I would do the spacer behind the backing plate deal either. You increase the load on the bolts. Plus there would be quite a bit of effort involved in making a "decent" spacer anyway.

Andy is quite right about the axle not running in the right place on the bearing surface.

It pretty much comes down to getting the right axles or swapping the whole housing.

[cparman]

I agree with long horn man. Wheel brg is riding on the wrong part of the axle. I am WAAY too old for that thrill ride, or the axle grease on my brakes shoes, or the brakes grabbing and locking up on a wet street, in front of the police on the way home from my favorite watering hole, AND then trying to explain to my wife why it is not my fault that I got a ticket. ha ha

[caminokid]

I think I will just get a set of axles. Its under 300.00 So that wont be so bad. Could be worse.

[Old Money]

try using newer style backing plates and drums. i remember switching axles, plates , brake lines wheel cyl.and drums from 72 to 70 in one complete move. it seemed to look okay at the time. pull axles and drums, then remove plates wheel cyl. and lines at the same time while keeping them all together. i did this early one sunday morning years ago and surprised myself on how easy it really was. old money.

[caminokid]

Originally Posted by Old Money

try using newer style backing plates and drums. i remember switching axles, plates , brake lines wheel cyl.and drums from 72 to 70 in one complete move. it seemed to look okay at the time. pull axles and drums, then remove plates wheel cyl. and lines at the same time while keeping them all together. i did this early one sunday morning years ago and surprised myself on how easy it really was. old money.

I have the 77 backing plates on there now. The axles are just to long. Like Andy said the bearing is going to be riding in the wrong place. Better safe then sorry

[Longhorn Man]

in mid 70, they went to the wider rear end, but retained the 6 lug shafts.
Old money has the wider rear, so the 5 lug shafts just slid right in.

I am shocked that people are agreeing with me, I normally get semi-flamed when I say this.

[caminokid]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

in mid 70, they went to the wider rear end, but retained the 6 lug shafts.
Old money has the wider rear, so the 5 lug shafts just slid right in.

I am shocked that people are agreeing with me, I normally get semi-flamed when I say this.

well I guess its cause I have picture proof that its not working and you pointed out these are going to cause problems.

This is the first time I have done a swap like this...so really dont know. Now if I am sure about something and someone tries to steer someone wrong I will say something. But not flame.

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by caminokid

well I guess its cause I have picture proof that its not working and you pointed out these are going to cause problems.

This is the first time I have done a swap like this...so really dont know. Now if I am sure about something and someone tries to steer someone wrong I will say something. But not flame.

Running the wider drums is a perfectly fine option. The bearing surface is plenty wide on the end of the shaft, and no, the axle grease doesn't run all over your brakes either

It wouldn't be my FIRST choice for how to fix the problem, but if you want to do something on-the cheap for your driver or beater, or just want to get something on the road, it's fine.

[raggedjim]

caminokid, where are you in Illinois?

I have a '72 5-lug rearend you can have (complete from drum to drum).

I can't vouch for how good it is and it is dirty/greasy, but if you jump in a truck and come to Murray KY you can have it.

Just a thought, Rg

[p-low]

i thought that the only useable 5 lug axles were from 71-2 trucks of our bodystyle...do those slide right in i would imagine so....is the problem here not the fact that the donor truck is a 77? because i know the 73-87 had a wider rear by and inch and a half or so correct?