1960 Apache K10 build

[Just-in-credible]

So I have been a forum creeper for quire a while, and I figured it was time to start to contribute.

So lets start with the introduction to the project.

I recently found a 1960 Apache 30 dually that used to have a grain box on it. I managed to pick it up for 600 bucks with an extra box that was laying around! The former owner was having health issues, and he wanted it to go to a good home where someone would actually do something cool with it.

So that's the starting point...


now the fun part is what is the plan for it...

I have read lots of good things about frame swapping these trucks onto the 2000-2006 Tahoe frames. The plan would be to retain as much of the Tahoe as possible, maintaining the good ride and handling qualities, and have a cool body onto of the newer tech.

will it work? I dunno...but it sure sounds good when you say it fast! The wheel bases match within an inch. 115 vs 116 respectively.

So I bought the kit from ez chassis swaps to do just that. they have the solution for the front bumper/crossmember, box and cab mounts, etc. So the plan is going to be to turn this into a short box fleet site 4x4. I want to put a 4.5" lift, and 33 or 35" tires on it. The big picture concept will be to retain as much of a stock look as possible. Factory style heat and air, factory style gauges, retain the DBW cruise control system. Even make the LS dressed up to look like a small block as much as possible. obviously I will not be able to get it looking totally correct, but I want to make it look as close as possible. I'm also planning to swap in a healthy 6.0 in place of the 5.3. Cam swap, headers etc. Some of the cool stuff...Tahoe's have hydro boost brakes already, so I'm hoping to retain the whole brake system, maybe even retain the ABS system. I'm also hoping to retain the factory fuel tank, hitch, and spare tire carrier. They have 4 wheel disc brakes, and almost everything is tucked all nice inside of the frame rails. very little hangs below the frame. So it should look reasonably clean.
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One thing worth mentioning about my life...I generally work A LOT. And I'm always gone working away from home. I work up in Alberta Canada, and you know how it goes, you either have time, and no money, or no money and lots of time.
BUT!! I think I finally have found a balance of both in my life. I just started a job where I work 14 days on, and 14 days off. My plan is to buy parts like crazy while I'm gone working, and try to spend at least three or four days per set of days off working on the truck.


so...let the parts gathering begin...

[Just-in-credible]

so...I did some googling, and this is what I want the build to look like. approximately the same stance, same color, same tires. In the end, it should be a sharp looking machine.

[The Rocknrod]

Should be a pretty cool build, can't wait.

[Just-in-credible]

I figured I would post a quick introduction video.

http://youtu.be/FMjtmzYMffo

[Getter-Done]

Nice Starter truck

I subbed your channel and put my vote in



...

[Just-in-credible]

well...I did some heavy duty parts shopping...

The back story, I did a job earlier this year, and I worked pretty much every day in march. And as I was sitting in the frozen town of Grande Cache in the middle of a snow storm, I told myself that I was going to take all the money I made on that job, and put it into this build. It was the only thing that kept me motivated to show up to work every day, haha. So I don't feel as guilty ordering all the fancy bling bling parts.

So anyhow, here is the list I have bought so far.

BDS 4.5" lift kit with Fox shock upgrade
Classic auto Air AC system
Entropy radiator
Dakota digital RTX gauge package
Brothers trucks bed sides, front fenders.
Delmo speed retro intake manifold kit to make the LS look like an old school SBC

Summit racing-
Holley two piece finned aluminum 2 piece valve covers
Finned valley cover
complete American autowire wiring harness
flaming river steering column
new Fast 39lb/hr injectors
3200 RPM converter
new Comp K54-426-11 cam kit
4 corner steam kit
flowmaster 3" stainless u build exhaust kit
flowmaster stainless 3" delta flow 50 mufflers
Texas speed stainless headers

I also ordered an HP tuners thingy. so that will be another thing i need to learn how to use.

Yes...my credit card is so hot, I can hardly hold onto it. And no, I do not feel any shame.

I also bought a set of junkyard 862 heads which I plan to try porting myself. I have read a bunch on it, and I like the idea that they bump compression on the 6.0. I've never done porting before, so I will see how it goes.

[The Rocknrod]

Why the Fast 39lb/hr injectors? I didn't see where you've bought the system yet. Or the engine?
Are you keeping the stock running gear?

[Just-in-credible]

Originally Posted by The Rocknrod

Why the Fast 39lb/hr injectors? I didn't see where you've bought the system yet. Or the engine?
Are you keeping the stock running gear?

I'm planning on putting a mildly built 6.0 in it later. I plan on replicating this build:

https://www.cpgnation.com/lets-talk-...4%2C800%20rpm.

I'm thinking 475hp should be a lot of fun in the light little pick up.

[Just-in-credible]

Lookie what ended up finding its way home with me!

I have a buddy that runs a wrecking yard in Red Deer, and he found me this beauty. It's a 2006, with a 5.3 and 180,000km (about 115,000miles for you brethren south of the border). I paid 2500 bucks for the truck...AND he gave me a deal for an extra 500 bucks, it came with a 2003 6.0 LQ4 in the trunk!

Apparently the back story is that it was a theft recovery. Its super clean inside and out. It's almost a shame to pull it all apart! it has the full leather interior that is in amazing shape, the Bose sound system, DVD player. Also interestingly enough, it came from Florida. it must have been imported into Canada at some point, because the dash was swapped over to metric.

The funniest part that I found was that is sounds absolutely awful. It has the usual broken exhaust bolts, so it has a major exhaust leak. At start up and idle, its quite loud, and you get to hear FUB FUB FUB FUB FUB when you fire it up, but it does actually quiet down a little once it warms up and gets rolling on the highway. The good news is that it actually drove really really nice. It made me super excited for this build. It handles and steers so nice and light. I drive HD trucks for my work, so to jump from a Dodge 3500 4x4 into this thing was amazing. The only small thing I noticed was that there was a thump/rattle coming from the front drivers side wheel area. I'm hoping that might just be a bushing or something that is worn and will need replacing. It definitely did not affect how it drove. I think that's what I am most excited about for this build, I want this thing to ride and drive really nice. That's why i went with the BDS lift. From what I read, they are the best riding and driving lift on the market. We will see I guess.

I checked the tag in the glovebox, and it has 3.42 gears, so a gearing change is definitely in my future. I'm thinking 4.10 or 4.56, depending on if I go with 33" or 35" tires.

I don't currently have an engine hoist, so I'm going to have to rip the 6.0 down to nothing so I can hand bomb it out of the back of this thing.

Should keep me busy for a while!

[Just-in-credible]

I got the front accessories off...Next step will be to tear this thing down so I can actually lift it...then carefully ponder my poor life choices not having a hoist.

[cwcarpenter98]

Might as well go ahead and pick up an engine hoist. It'll save your back and is useful for many other things than just hoisting an engine. Check the used market for one too. Someone might be doing a moving sale or shop clean out

[Just-in-credible]

I got the 6.0 all torn apart and ready to clean up and paint. It was a little bit awkward, but I managed. But...slow and steady, got it pulled apart. I also pulled apart and cleaned the 862 heads that i got.

I tried a few different methods of cleaning, and I think I settled on a nice middle ground.
I hit them with some oven cleaner and let them soak for about 45 minutes. this gets most of the grime off of them. After that, I mix some purple cleaner and water in a spray bottle, and soak them down, and scrub them with a wire brush. They came out actually looking much cleaner than I had expected.

The plan with the 862's is to do a quick little port job, lap the valves, and put them on the 6.0 for a little extra compression.

Anyhow, I should be getting some parts soon, So things should keep rolling right along!

[350TacoZilla]

On the gearing thing here is some comparison numbers for you if you do interstate. I will say I'm not a big fan of a higher stall converter in a heavy car\truck but that may be a personal thing and depends on the motor setup pretty heavily.

265\65r17-3.42 R&P-4L60E=1843RPM@70MPH

315\70R17-4.10 R&P-4L60E=1965RPM@70MPH

315\70R17-4.56 R&P-4L60E=2185RPM@70MPH

[Just-in-credible]

One thing I forgot to mention was the broken exhaust bolts I fixed. Like usual, the 862 heads that I bought had a bunch of broken exhaust bolts still stuck in the head. I had done a bunch of research on the best way to extract them. The top two methods I saw were either drilling and using an easy out, or welding on a nut. I know how bad my results have been using the drill and easy out method in the past, so having said that, I found that the method that made the most sense to me was welding a nut onto the broken stud. So I figured I would give that a try. Besides, I just bought a new welder, and I am looking for every excuse I can to practice with it.

So the procedure I used was simple. I just cleaned up the end of the broken stud with a wire wheel on a Dremel so I had a good surface to weld to, I placed a nut over the broken stud, and gave it a little buzz with the MIG. And I simply spun out the bolt with a wrench. All of the broken bolts came out without a hint of problem after I welded the nut on. I made sure to spin the broken section out while the nut was still warm from welding. Not sure the heat helped or not, but it didn’t seem to hurt. Some were broken with a good 3/8” sticking above the gasket surface, and some were broken 1/8” or more below the surface. All of them welded no problem and caused no damage to the head.
And for the record, the welder I bought is a Miller multi matic 220 AC/DC. It is a MIG/TIG/ Stick machine, and it is pretty amazing. It has a lot of smart control options, and it even makes my hack welds look almost like I know what I’m doing. One thing that I really noticed helped me a lot was switching from the straight CO2 to Argon CO2 mix. I found much less spatter, and much easier to weld thinner metals without burning through. I’m sure you guys that are better at welding already know this, but for the rookies like me, it was a real noticeable change.

Anyhow, next steps, lap the valves, and try porting the heads. I bought a trunion upgrade kit for the rockers as well, so I will be installing that too.

[bsarts]

That's a good trick and , yes, the heat did help. That's one reason why it works so good. As the aluminum got warm the hole got bigger, and the bolt shrunk a little as it cooled. There is a welding rod that will let you weld to a bolt that is broken deep down in the hole also, it's called extractalloy.

[Just-in-credible]

Originally Posted by 350TacoZilla

On the gearing thing here is some comparison numbers for you if you do interstate. I will say I'm not a big fan of a higher stall converter in a heavy car\truck but that may be a personal thing and depends on the motor setup pretty heavily.

I actually have the feeling that I am going to be fairly light (relatively speaking) when I am done, So I am really curious to see what this thing is going to weigh in the end.

I just weighed my 65 short step again this summer, and it is 3600lbs with me in it and a tank of fuel. It does have the fiberglass front end and no inner fenders, so that will trim a little weight off the nose, but I can't see that it would be more than 100-200lbs.

The Tahoe frame is fully boxed, so I can see that would add some extra weight, maybe an extra 50 lbs?

The engine and transmission should weigh the same, as they are both iron blocks, aluminum heads, and they both have the 4L60, so that should be the same weight.

The only other major difference would be the weight of the 4wd parts, transfer case, front diff, and the extra drive gear. I was actually quite amazed how light the aluminum center sections and transfer cases of these trucks are. I don't think I will be paying much a weight penalty for all the 4wd goodies.

If my current truck weighs 3600...
add 150 for the steel hood, fenders and inner fenders, and extra frame weight
add 100 for the np 246 transfer case
add 100 lbs for the front diff
add 100 lbs for front axles and drive shaft
maybe throw in some extra for the bigger tires as well. the wheels should be close to the same weight as an aluminum wheel should be close in weight to what I'm running on my 65, the tires will be the main difference.

I figure I should be right around 4000-4200lbs going down the road when I have it all together, which really isn't THAT bad, all things considered. I did some googling and found that most of the muscle cars of the late 60's tipped the scales in the 3600-3900 lb range, so if my truck ends up at 4000-4200lbs, I will be pretty happy.

From what I have read, the Tahoe's are pretty porky, tipping the scales at 6000lbs+. I haven't weighed mine yet, but I will as soon as I get the lift kit in it. if any of you guys out there have a 2000-2006 Tahoe, and know the weight of it off hand, let me know.

I would bet that a mild tune of the stock 5.3, the gear swap from 3.42 to 4.56, and the weight reduction of 1500ish lbs should make this a really fun driver. I have also made the decision that I am going to keep the 5.3 in it for right now to just get it running and on the road, and I will keep working on the 6.0 in the mean time. Getting the 6.0 to put down 450-475 hp should really make this a fun machine.

[Just-in-credible]

Next step…re-gear the diffs. I checked with the local driveline shops, and apparently there are some pretty long wait times, so I figured I should get at getting the diffs rebuilt. The 3.42’s just aren’t going to cut it with 33’3 or 35’s. I decided to go with 4.56’s and a true track. Pulling the rear end out was fairly uneventful. And I decided to leave the front in, and just buy a rebuilt unit.

I checked with the driveline shop, and they had them in stock, and I’ll get a refund for the core when I bring it back. I didn’t have time to rip the front end out before I had to leave for work, so she sits in the driveway with no rear for now. I’m planning to install the BDS 4.5” lift kit in once I get the front and rear diff’s back. It’s going to look pretty funny with a 4.5” lift and factory tires, but hey, I’m into things that aren’t normal. Everything Chassis and suspension related seems pretty solid so far.
Part of the reason that I picked 4.56 gears is that I know the overall ratio works well. I have 3.73’s with a 27.25” tire in my 65 2wd, and I really like the overall combination. It has plenty of get up and go, yet it is quiet enough on the highway when it’s down in OD. I typically cruise on the highway at about 70mph, and I’m turning 2250rpm. The new combo with 4.56 gears will be a tad lower rpm on the highway, but not by much, maybe 100rpm or so, which is negligible. However, it’ll be interesting to take it for a cruise before I put the big tires on and see what the difference feels like.

[Just-in-credible]

well, well, well...looks like I got a visit from the delivery guy!

I was itching to see the new toys, so I thought I would mock them up on an engine I had on the stand in the garage. (no this engine is not going into this project, haha)

The goal is going to be to make this look as old school as I can without loosing functionality. I want to retain the DBW throttle body, as well as the port EFI. So I went with the Delmo speed old school kit. And yes, I know I will lose low end with this manifold. That's a price I'm willing to pay to look this cool.

So far...it looks pretty sweet. I also got the TSP stainless headers on, the summit valley cover, and the Holley valve covers/coil covers. I'm planning to paint the block chevy orange, and leave the heads raw aluminum. Should look pretty sharp.

I'm looking for opinions on what kind of air cleaner to run on it. I might see if I can find something old school looking from an early 60's car. Again, I want to make it look fairly old school.

I also have a couple ideas about turning that front filler neck into a breather like the old small blocks used to have.

[Just-in-credible]

This is what I was thinking for the breather. I would have to make a thread on the lathe and TIG it to the breather. I could use it as the breather for the PCV system.

[The Rocknrod]

Love it. That engine will look cool.

[Just-in-credible]

Thanks! I'm thinking it should all look pretty cool when I'm done. I'm not trying to look 100% original, but an overall original theme is more of my aim, hence dressing it up like a small block.

[350TacoZilla]

Hear me out.... with the shape of those valve covers the engine looks less SBC and more 455 buick. Paint the engine\heads red and throw one of the dual inlet GS air cleaners on there, maybe stick coils up front under the air cleaner where it's hard to see.

[Just-in-credible]

interesting concept...

[Just-in-credible]

So one question that I have been pondering is if I will retain the Tahoe factory ABS system. I cant see any good reason not to keep it? Other than cluttering things up on the chassis, I can not see that there will be any kind of negative with continuing to run the ABS. Thoughts?

[350TacoZilla]

Other than the clutter and added parts I don't see a negative to keeping it, that said it is a good many parts that can be expensive to replace later down the rd but you could always delete it then if it starts giving you problems.