Confused on front suspension - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Jamesbb · 10-30-2012, 09:36 AM

First let me start by saying I am currently working on a 1950 3100. I plan to use it for a daily driver with weather permitting, so it needs to handle and ride good. The confusion comes from the front suspension. From what i have read you can either go with a mustang 2 crossmember install or a camaro type sub frame install. I am leaning more towards mustang 2 setup cause it seems to be more widely installed. The ? came up with the lower control arms, the stock setup shows having a strut bar installed, but aftermarket tubular arms have and dont have it installed. Ones without shows having a gusset welded in on the trailing side to brace the arm. My ? is do I need the strut bar or not? Also is there anything i need to be aware of when doing a mustang 2 install?
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98layinframe · 10-30-2012, 09:59 AM

If you buy an aftermarket kit designed to fit the truck, they pretty much all come with tubular control arms. The down side to me is the size of the little brakes and crappy alignment methods (depending on the kit ya buy) and your spending around +2k.

Im planning to run the Corvette front setup, larger 12-14" rotors( depending on model) dual piston calipers, all light weight aluminum components and it ends up being cheaper. Can buy complete front suspension setups on ebay for around 500 and the custom crossmember for around 800-850 shipped.

So 500-600 less for a suspension that was designed for a performance car, verse a 70's commuter car.
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Chevette · 10-30-2012, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98layinframe

If you buy an aftermarket kit designed to fit the truck, they pretty much all come with tubular control arms. The down side to me is the size of the little brakes and crappy alignment methods (depending on the kit ya buy) and your spending around +2k.

Im planning to run the Corvette front setup, larger 12-14" rotors( depending on model) dual piston calipers, all light weight aluminum components and it ends up being cheaper. Can buy complete front suspension setups on ebay for around 500 and the custom crossmember for around 800-850 shipped.

So 500-600 less for a suspension that was designed for a performance car, verse a 70's commuter car.
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This ought to get interesting. I'll be sure to stay tuned.

98layinframe · 10-30-2012, 10:33 AM

Yeah I know.. the second you dont praise a mustang II setup everyone gets all pissy. I like the no limit ans Scott's setup but just dont think thats the route I'm taking based on costs and what I already have.
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Jamesbb · 10-30-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98layinframe

If you buy an aftermarket kit designed to fit the truck, they pretty much all come with tubular control arms. The down side to me is the size of the little brakes and crappy alignment methods (depending on the kit ya buy) and your spending around +2k.

Im planning to run the Corvette front setup, larger 12-14" rotors( depending on model) dual piston calipers, all light weight aluminum components and it ends up being cheaper. Can buy complete front suspension setups on ebay for around 500 and the custom crossmember for around 800-850 shipped.

So 500-600 less for a suspension that was designed for a performance car, verse a 70's commuter car.
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The reason i dont like this route is i like the idea of a kit designed to work for the truck not something fabbed to work. I would hope the big manufacturers would have worked the kinks out to get better results
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98layinframe · 10-30-2012, 12:17 PM

These guys sell the weld in crossmember im talking about buying.. its designed to fit the frame. Welds to the AD frame almost exactly like a standard mustang II aftermarket setup... only difference is the control arms, spindles, brakes, etc. Basically same as a mustang II with a big brake kit upgrade. Just another available option.

http://www.flatout-engineering.com/products.html
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Kabwe · 10-30-2012, 12:33 PM

I don't get pissy about this stuff, but I guess others do because when you criticized a part they have on their rides they feel you are criticizing their rides. I just tell the truth as I see it.

I have a Mustang 2 and have installed many over the years and never had an issue with them. That said I do agree with 98layinframe that there are better options out there. I recently installed the Flat out Engineering setup (front and rear) on a someone else's ride and I like it a lot, and you can get one done for around the same price as a Mustang 2. I paid around 1600 for my Mustang 2 if I were to do it again I would go with the Flat out Engineering setup. Why? Because its around the same price as a Mustang 2, and in my opinion it has a better upper a arm design. Plus you get to use that cool light weight corvette stuff.lol Now there are other options and I really like the Scott Hot Rod, No Limit Engeering, and Super Ride setup but they come with a bigger price tag.

Back to the Mustang 2, to answer your questions about the strut bar on a Mustang 2 unit. You don't need the strut bar if you are going with Tubular Arms, the strut bar is for the stocked a arms that come with the economy or basic package that some vendors sale. If you stick with Hiedts, TCI and other reputable companies you will be fine if you decide to go that route.

By the way nothing is wrong with a clip either. Don't look down on donor clips they work great if installed correctly. They have been used for years and are proven and road tested. Nothing is wrong with them. But if that's not what you want don't do it. You must do what you want or you will never be happy. I'm just letting you know they ride great and can look great if you take the time to install them nicely.

You have many choices just make the right one for you. Money, time, and skill level all play a factor into this. There is really no wrong choice between a mustang 2, higher end IFS, or a clip. Its just options, they all work.

bowt1ed · 10-30-2012, 12:53 PM

Sorry for the hi-jack!

Kabwe, would you recommend going to tubular arms with an installed (Camaro) clip or just stay with stock arms? If so, why?

meter swinger · 10-30-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabwe

I don't get pissy about this stuff, but I guess others do because when you criticized a part they have on their rides they feel you are criticizing they rides. I just tell the truth as I see it.

I have a Mustang 2 and have installed many over the years and never had an issue with them. That said I do agree with 98layinframe that their are better options out there. I recently installed the Flat out Engineering setup (front and rear) on a someone else's ride and I like it a lot, and you can get one done for around the same price as a Mustang 2. I paid around 1600 for my Mustang 2 if I were to do it again I would go with the Flat out Engineering setup. Why? Because its around the same price as a Mustang 2, and in my opinion it has a better upper a arm design. Plus you get to use that cool light weight corvette stuff.lol Now there are other options and I really like the Scott Hot Rod, No Limit Engeering, and Super Ride setup but they come with a bigger price tag.

Back to the Mustang 2, to answer your questions about the strut bar on a Mustang 2 unit. You don't need the strut bar if you are going with Tubular Arms, the strut bar is for the stocked a arms that come with the economy or basic package that some vendors sale. If you stick with Hiedts, TCI and other reputable companies you will be fine if you decide to go that route.

By the way nothing is wrong with a clip either. Don't look down on donor clips they work great if installed correctly. They have been used for years and are proven and road tested. Nothing is wrong with them. But if that's not what you want don't do it. You must do what you want are you will never be happy. I'm just letting you know they ride great and can look great if you take the time to install them nicely.

You have many choices just make the right one for you. Money, time, and skill level all play a factor into this. There is really no wrong choice between a mustang 2, higher end IFS, or a clip. Its just options, they all work.

Never heard it said any better than this
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Jamesbb · 10-30-2012, 01:04 PM

..

Kabwe · 10-30-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowt1ed

Sorry for the hi-jack!

Kabwe, would you recommend going to tubular arms with an installed (Camaro) clip or just stay with stock arms? If so, why?

I have had them both ways and never really notice much difference personally, but that could be how I drive and use a car (I'm a cruiser, who likes to mash it every now and than.lol) But the tubular are suppose to a good option from performance stand point. They are more rigid, and add positive caster for better handling. Supposedly. I would do them simply because they don't hurt and they look cool.lol Just being honest.

mr48chev · 10-30-2012, 03:06 PM

The GM subframe swap is pretty much 80's tech and while it drives great It isn't all that easy and the cost can go up if you have to rebuild the front end. The cost for decent subframes seems to be a lot higher now too. In the early 80's we could often drag a tired Camaro or Firebird that someone had junked out off for spare change if not free for the taking. I think I split one with my buddy and he took the rear axle and I took the subframe and we scrapped the rest. There wasn't much to scrap though.
I hung that First generation rear steer subframe on my 48's frame and rebuilt the suspension along with adding disk brakes off a 72 Monte Carlo.

The big hassle was trimming out the inner fenders and getting the front end sheet metal lined up right.
When I was done the truck drove like a slot car and we made a trip to Texas in it leaving Washington with less than 100 miles on the fresh truck.
I don't plan to use another one as I'd rather keep the stock frame intact and add the suspension to it.
I've got an aftermarket MII crossmember and tube A frames to go under mine but haven't got it welded on yet. I've rather mixed and matched and am using stock MII spindles and springs on the build but I already had two stock MII suspension setups stashed away.

Right now with what I know I would be looking for a Jag XJ6 suspension that some of the guys on here are installing. They aren't that expensive in some areas, come complete from hub to hub with steering and install fairly easily on AD trucks.
They may not be the prettiest or showiest when the nit pickers look under the truck but those cars weigh the same or slightly more than an AD truck and they do drive pretty nice. Depending on the number of Jags in the area over the past 20 years they may be hard to find in some areas though.

Scroll down this page, We lost Steve (OldSub) a couple of years ago but his ideas live on. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414496

Apachomatic · 10-28-2013, 02:21 PM

Can anyone tell me what is wrong with just using the stock C4 corvette front susp. with the mono leaf and gas shocks? I have a 59 chev apache and from a measurement standpoint the C4 will fit well as is.

Is it a ground clearance or ride issue that turns everyone to aftermarket members for these vette front ends?

10-30-2012, 09:36 AM	#1
Jamesbb Registered User Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 16	Confused on front suspension First let me start by saying I am currently working on a 1950 3100. I plan to use it for a daily driver with weather permitting, so it needs to handle and ride good. The confusion comes from the front suspension. From what i have read you can either go with a mustang 2 crossmember install or a camaro type sub frame install. I am leaning more towards mustang 2 setup cause it seems to be more widely installed. The ? came up with the lower control arms, the stock setup shows having a strut bar installed, but aftermarket tubular arms have and dont have it installed. Ones without shows having a gusset welded in on the trailing side to brace the arm. My ? is do I need the strut bar or not? Also is there anything i need to be aware of when doing a mustang 2 install? Posted via Mobile Device Posted via Mobile Device Posted via Mobile Device

10-30-2012, 09:59 AM	#2
98layinframe Registered User Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Pittsburgh Pa Posts: 267	Re: Confused on front suspension If you buy an aftermarket kit designed to fit the truck, they pretty much all come with tubular control arms. The down side to me is the size of the little brakes and crappy alignment methods (depending on the kit ya buy) and your spending around +2k. Im planning to run the Corvette front setup, larger 12-14" rotors( depending on model) dual piston calipers, all light weight aluminum components and it ends up being cheaper. Can buy complete front suspension setups on ebay for around 500 and the custom crossmember for around 800-850 shipped. So 500-600 less for a suspension that was designed for a performance car, verse a 70's commuter car. Posted via Mobile Device __________________ 91 s10 - bagged bodydropped 4", 350/700R4, narrowed reared, cantilever rear air bag setup 1951 chevy 3100 - in build/acquiring parts process. Have full C4 Corvette suspension front and rear, tpi 350, 700r4, 18" torque thrust II wheels

10-30-2012, 10:33 AM	#4
98layinframe Registered User Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Pittsburgh Pa Posts: 267	Re: Confused on front suspension Yeah I know.. the second you dont praise a mustang II setup everyone gets all pissy. I like the no limit ans Scott's setup but just dont think thats the route I'm taking based on costs and what I already have. Posted via Mobile Device __________________ 91 s10 - bagged bodydropped 4", 350/700R4, narrowed reared, cantilever rear air bag setup 1951 chevy 3100 - in build/acquiring parts process. Have full C4 Corvette suspension front and rear, tpi 350, 700r4, 18" torque thrust II wheels

10-30-2012, 12:17 PM	#6
98layinframe Registered User Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Pittsburgh Pa Posts: 267	Re: Confused on front suspension These guys sell the weld in crossmember im talking about buying.. its designed to fit the frame. Welds to the AD frame almost exactly like a standard mustang II aftermarket setup... only difference is the control arms, spindles, brakes, etc. Basically same as a mustang II with a big brake kit upgrade. Just another available option. http://www.flatout-engineering.com/products.html Posted via Mobile Device __________________ 91 s10 - bagged bodydropped 4", 350/700R4, narrowed reared, cantilever rear air bag setup 1951 chevy 3100 - in build/acquiring parts process. Have full C4 Corvette suspension front and rear, tpi 350, 700r4, 18" torque thrust II wheels

10-30-2012, 12:33 PM	#7
Kabwe Certified Car Nut Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inglewood, California Posts: 3,118	Re: Confused on front suspension I don't get pissy about this stuff, but I guess others do because when you criticized a part they have on their rides they feel you are criticizing their rides. I just tell the truth as I see it. I have a Mustang 2 and have installed many over the years and never had an issue with them. That said I do agree with 98layinframe that there are better options out there. I recently installed the Flat out Engineering setup (front and rear) on a someone else's ride and I like it a lot, and you can get one done for around the same price as a Mustang 2. I paid around 1600 for my Mustang 2 if I were to do it again I would go with the Flat out Engineering setup. Why? Because its around the same price as a Mustang 2, and in my opinion it has a better upper a arm design. Plus you get to use that cool light weight corvette stuff.lol Now there are other options and I really like the Scott Hot Rod, No Limit Engeering, and Super Ride setup but they come with a bigger price tag. Back to the Mustang 2, to answer your questions about the strut bar on a Mustang 2 unit. You don't need the strut bar if you are going with Tubular Arms, the strut bar is for the stocked a arms that come with the economy or basic package that some vendors sale. If you stick with Hiedts, TCI and other reputable companies you will be fine if you decide to go that route. By the way nothing is wrong with a clip either. Don't look down on donor clips they work great if installed correctly. They have been used for years and are proven and road tested. Nothing is wrong with them. But if that's not what you want don't do it. You must do what you want or you will never be happy. I'm just letting you know they ride great and can look great if you take the time to install them nicely. You have many choices just make the right one for you. Money, time, and skill level all play a factor into this. There is really no wrong choice between a mustang 2, higher end IFS, or a clip. Its just options, they all work. Last edited by Kabwe; 10-30-2012 at 01:17 PM.

10-30-2012, 12:53 PM	#8
bowt1ed Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 494	Re: Confused on front suspension Sorry for the hi-jack! Kabwe, would you recommend going to tubular arms with an installed (Camaro) clip or just stay with stock arms? If so, why?

10-30-2012, 01:04 PM	#10
Jamesbb Registered User Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 16	Re: Confused on front suspension ..

10-30-2012, 03:06 PM	#12
mr48chev Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toppenish, WA Posts: 15,408	Re: Confused on front suspension The GM subframe swap is pretty much 80's tech and while it drives great It isn't all that easy and the cost can go up if you have to rebuild the front end. The cost for decent subframes seems to be a lot higher now too. In the early 80's we could often drag a tired Camaro or Firebird that someone had junked out off for spare change if not free for the taking. I think I split one with my buddy and he took the rear axle and I took the subframe and we scrapped the rest. There wasn't much to scrap though. I hung that First generation rear steer subframe on my 48's frame and rebuilt the suspension along with adding disk brakes off a 72 Monte Carlo. The big hassle was trimming out the inner fenders and getting the front end sheet metal lined up right. When I was done the truck drove like a slot car and we made a trip to Texas in it leaving Washington with less than 100 miles on the fresh truck. I don't plan to use another one as I'd rather keep the stock frame intact and add the suspension to it. I've got an aftermarket MII crossmember and tube A frames to go under mine but haven't got it welded on yet. I've rather mixed and matched and am using stock MII spindles and springs on the build but I already had two stock MII suspension setups stashed away. Right now with what I know I would be looking for a Jag XJ6 suspension that some of the guys on here are installing. They aren't that expensive in some areas, come complete from hub to hub with steering and install fairly easily on AD trucks. They may not be the prettiest or showiest when the nit pickers look under the truck but those cars weigh the same or slightly more than an AD truck and they do drive pretty nice. Depending on the number of Jags in the area over the past 20 years they may be hard to find in some areas though. Scroll down this page, We lost Steve (OldSub) a couple of years ago but his ideas live on. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414496

10-28-2013, 02:21 PM	#13
Apachomatic Registered User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Parry sound Posts: 10	Re: Confused on front suspension Can anyone tell me what is wrong with just using the stock C4 corvette front susp. with the mono leaf and gas shocks? I have a 59 chev apache and from a measurement standpoint the C4 will fit well as is. Is it a ground clearance or ride issue that turns everyone to aftermarket members for these vette front ends?



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