Heim rod ends to replace stock tie-rod ends?

[MXmaniac]

I'm thinking about using heim rod-ends in place of the stock type tie-rod ends so that I can attach them on the underside of the stock mounting point on the spindle. I'm going to be using 1-1/2" stepped LCAs and 3" drop springs so it seems like using heims on the underside would be a good way to help lessen the angle of the tie-rods and keep them more level. So far my plan is to drill out the tapered hole to 5/8", and use a heim with a 5/8" bore and bolt it together with some grade-8 hardware. Has anyone done this? What are the pros and cons? This is common on race cars, correct?

[N2TRUX]

I may be wrong here but it sounds like your putting the attachment point "in shear" by using a fixed bolt.

Keep in mind that higher grade bolts are designed to prevent failure due to stretch. They are more brittle than standard grade bolt and will "shear" easier.

[RunninLo]

I agree with N2trux on the shear factor but that being said there are several aftermarket r+P conversions out there that use Heims in place of trad. ball joints. my current set-up is similar to what you're planning but adds misalignment bushings.
Josh

[MXmaniac]

I understand what you're saying about the shear factor. That was my main concern. How is it any different than the shear factor of the stock tie-rod end? Does the taper play a big role in the amount of force required to shear it?

I like the idea of the misalignment bushings. I will have to wait until I get most of my front end back together to see if they'll be necessary, assuming I decide to go the heim route in the first place.

And to clarify I would use a bolt that has a shoulder all the way through the steering arm and through the heim.

Thanks for the help guys! Y'all have introduced some good things to consider and my gears are turning...

[SactoJim]

I'm watching this......I have a similar setup with stepped LCAs, drop springs, and stock spindles. I have some pretty good bumpsteer because of the tie rod angle.

DJM has a kit that is like $130 (insert, drill bit, tap) or just the inserts for like $60 that will allow you to flip the tie rod.

I like the rod end idea and don't wanna spend a bunch....but at the same time need to make it safe.

[HotRodYJ]

heim joints and grade 8 bolts for steering is very common in the offroad world. It works great and they see alot more stress offroad than you'd ever see on the street. I ran heims in my daily driven Jeep steering set-up for several years and never had any problems with it running 38" tires on 1 ton axles. Each wheel and tire weighed over 125 lbs. Many times it had just about the entire weight of the rig on one front corner and still never had an issue with steering set-up at all.

I would recommend using high quality rod-ends and not the cheap economy ones. You get what you pay for so I use nothing but the best rod ends that QA1 offers on my stuff.

[N2TRUX]

Can someone post a pic of this type of set up. I really need a visuale aid here.

[MXmaniac]

Originally Posted by HotRodYJ

heim joints and grade 8 bolts for steering is very common in the offroad world. It works great and they see alot more stress offroad than you'd ever see on the street. I ran heims in my daily driven Jeep steering set-up for several years and never had any problems with it running 38" tires on 1 ton axles. Each wheel and tire weighed over 125 lbs. Many times it had just about the entire weight of the rig on one front corner and still never had an issue with steering set-up at all.

I would recommend using high quality rod-ends and not the cheap economy ones. You get what you pay for so I use nothing but the best rod ends that QA1 offers on my stuff.

Thanks! I feel a lot better knowing its a tried and true set up. Did you need to use misalignment bushings or did the rod ends offer enough rotation? And just to be absolutely sure, this was in place of a typical ball-joint style tie rod end, with the rod end bolted straight to the steering arm without any other fabrication(other than drilling the hole for the bolt size)?

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

Can someone post a pic of this type of set up. I really need a visuale aid here.

Here's the best I've found.

[FnLow69]

Nathan Porters dropmembers come with heims for the steering. if your using bags you might need the misalignment spacers, but im not sure maybe nate will see this.

[N2TRUX]

Much clearer now...thanks.

[HotRodYJ]

Yes on my Jeep the heims replaced factory style TRE's. Mine was single shear, double shear would be preffered on a heavy duty set-up, but lots of people run single shear and it works fine. As pointed out before, factory TRE's are also single shear. And yes I did use misalignmenet spacers to et more movement out of the rod end and insure it never binds.

Most people do just drill thru the knuckle and bolt thru it, I prefer to drill and tap the knuckle with fine threads so the bolt threads into the knuckle directly rather than bolting thru it. Stronger set-up and this eliminates any potential slop or play between the bolt and the drilled hole.

[SactoJim]

OK....I give...what are misalignment spacers?

Also.....if you're gonna drill out and tap the spindle tie rod mounting point and flip it, what is the minimum drill bit and tap size you will use? What kind of bolt do you use as the new mounting stud?

You mentioned just "through bolting" it.....I imagine you have to at least drill it out because of the taper....or is there another solution?

I know....lots of questions......thx!

[MXmaniac]

Originally Posted by SactoJim

OK....I give...what are misalignment spacers?

High misalignment and misalignment spacers allow for more misalignment by continuing the spherical diameter of the ball and allowing the edge of the ball to rotate into the body. The I.D. of the high misalignment spacer is less than the original I.D. of the rod end, so a smaller bolt is required.

Originally Posted by SactoJim

Also.....if you're gonna drill out and tap the spindle tie rod mounting point and flip it, what is the minimum drill bit and tap size you will use? What kind of bolt do you use as the new mounting stud?

So far I'm planning on using a 5/8"-18 SAE grade 8. So that's the thread size I'll tap in the steering arm. Then I'll bolt it through the rod end and thread it into the steering arm, then a lock washer and a nut to keep it in place. I'll probably use loctite, or safety wire, or a castle nut with a cotter pin for some extra insurance.

Originally Posted by SactoJim

You mentioned just "through bolting" it.....I imagine you have to at least drill it out because of the taper....or is there another solution?

Yes you will have to drill it out. If you just put a bolt through it with the taper it would wobble like crazy and I can't think of a safe way to get around drilling out the taper.

Here is an example of a high misalignment spacer in a rod end:

[HotRodYJ]

Actually those are high misalignment spacers. A standard spacer just allows the heim body to rotatefully almost down to the bolt. Look at it this way, if you just bolt a heim joint between two pieces of metal, it has very little travel until the heim body hits the steel plates. A regular old misalignment spacer is usually nothing more than a short piece of tubing.

Check here for all the options...
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/...ries_c_80.html

[MXmaniac]

Oh ok. I thought people just got lazy and started calling high misalignment spacers just misalignment spacers. Thanks for clearing that up!

[MXmaniac]

Well its looking like this isn't going to work for me. I pulled my stock tie rod ends today and determined the thread is 9/16"-18, left hand thread. I can't find any rod ends that use this thread.

EDIT: I screwed up with the calipers and didn't check twice. Its 5/8"-18 thread. Crisis over.

So here's what I'm ordering from Ballistic Fabrication:
2 QA1 XM-10 5/8-18 LH thread, 5/8 I.D.
4 303 SS Spacer 5/8"
2 303 SS Safety Washer 5/8"

I'll get all the hardware locally.

[MXmaniac]

OK here's my final set-up. I drilled and tapped the steering arm 5/8-18". I bought some grade-9 3" bolts from the local Fastenal. $17 for the two of them! Ouch. My dad got the locknuts from where he works. I'm very confident in this set-up, it oughta work out well! Here's pics.

[scotts62]

Well i know its been a while but did it work?

[FRENCHBLUE72]

I too was wondering if you had any issues?

[MXmaniac]

Well I have them all mounted up, but the truck is still a long ways from being road-worthy. However, I'm positive this set-up will create bump-steer issues because the tie-rod is now attached to the bottom side of the steering arm. What I plan to do if the bump-steer is too much of a problem is to buy some rod ends with the highest misalignment possible (probably these from McMaster... PN 6960T32) and use my same set-up except mounted on the top side of the steering arm. But from the trips I've taken up and down the street everything has worked well.

And as far as strength and safety are concerned, I'm not the least bit worried. I know it seems as if the bolt is in the wrong orientation but it is threaded into the steering arm, and has a locking (distorted thread) jam nut on top. I'm sure this set-up is beefier than AutoZone tie-rod ends...

One thing you will have to look out for is interference depending the wheel size you are using. I'm using a 15x6 wheel with 3.5" backspace. With much more backspace on a 15" wheel the rim will hit the rod end, so check your clearance before drilling and tapping your steering arm!

[yellowGT]

Originally Posted by MXmaniac

Well I have them all mounted up, but the truck is still a long ways from being road-worthy. However, I'm positive this set-up will create bump-steer issues because the tie-rod is now attached to the bottom side of the steering arm. What I plan to do if the bump-steer is too much of a problem is to buy some rod ends with the highest misalignment possible (probably these from McMaster... PN 6960T32) and use my same set-up except mounted on the top side of the steering arm. But from the trips I've taken up and down the street everything has worked well.

And as far as strength and safety are concerned, I'm not the least bit worried. I know it seems as if the bolt is in the wrong orientation but it is threaded into the steering arm, and has a locking (distorted thread) jam nut on top. I'm sure this set-up is beefier than AutoZone tie-rod ends...

One thing you will have to look out for is interference depending the wheel size you are using. I'm using a 15x6 wheel with 3.5" backspace. With much more backspace on a 15" wheel the rim will hit the rod end, so check your clearance before drilling and tapping your steering arm!

Where do you get a big azz sleave like that?
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[scotts62]

I made mine from tube and got the threaded inserts from Porterbuilt.

[NZSquare]

Looks real tidy, and stronger than what I was planning on doing (boring the spindle out then inserting a tapered sleeve from the other side).

Does anyone know what the tie rod thread sizes are for the 73-87's ? I think i'll go with this setup for my 82 with a chopped crossmember.

Thanks

[scotts62]

I was told that you drill the spindle for 5/8 shoulder bolts but im sure someone else will chime it too.

[Portmod7]

The racing industry uses "swedge tubes" and jamb nuts everywhere, you can get them in almost any size and length, made out of steel, chromoly, aluminum, etc.

The only thing I would say about using heim ends is that in my experience, they will wear and get loose a lot faster than a common ball joint or tie rod end. Also, they are a little more difficult to keep lubed. Outpace has some cool products in that aspect, and sometimes you can find heims with grease zerks right on the body of them. There are also rubber seals you can buy to go on them to help keep the dirt out.

And as said above, you definitely get what you pay for. Generally the more money you spend the longer they last and the stronger they are.