Roll Cages

[Garagedude]

I kinda mentioned it in the Pro Street thread but nobody really said anything so I figured I would start a new one.

Alright here is my question I would like to put a cage in the truck this winter. I am having a hard time finding one though, should I order one if I can? Or should I buy all the tubing and bend it at a buddies shop? My only concern about doing it all myself is getting all the notches really tight, I hate when you see a cage and it looks like the filled a 1/4 gap in with weld, to me thats not safe I go to school for welding and in the right situation that weld would probably crack under stress. Also are you guys TIG welding your cages? I love doing this type of fabrication work but I have never built a roll cage before so I want to do it right and have it look professional. Whats your guys thoughts?

[joeys66pickup]

not to hi-jack or anything but the more info about cages all of us can get the better....is there a certain diameter tubing everyone uses? Mounting plates? i think a sticky about this or something would be *****in just my .02

[D13]

And how do you find an NHRA 'approved' welder and how many beans does it take?
need a 'spert to write a sticky!

[Super73]

Let me help out here a little.

Per the NHRA rule book:

When do I need a roll bar or roll cage, and what should it look like?
A roll bar is required in any convertible running 13.49 seconds or quicker in the quarter mile, and in other cars beginning at 11.49. The roll bar is accepted in vehicles running as quick as 10.00 second e.t., provided the stock firewall and floorboard is intact, other than for installation of wheel tubs. The rollbar must be constructed of minimum 1 ¾ inch o.d. x .118 inch wall mild steel tubing, or 1 ¾ x .083 chrome moly tubing, and must conform to the following diagram:




If the floor and/or firewall has been modified, then a full roll cage is required beginning at a 10.99 e.t. A full roll cage is required in any vehicle running 9.99 seconds or quicker, and any vehicle running 135 mph or faster (regardless of e.t.). The roll cage must be constructed of minimum 1 5/8 o.d.x .118 mild steel tubing, or 1 5/8 x .083 chrome moly tubing, and must conform to the following diagram:





The roll cage of any vehicle running 9.99 or quicker, or 135 mph or faster, must also be certified by NHRA every 3 years, and have a serialized sticker affixed prior to participation.



Take not in the first picture, it says "All cars with an OEM frame, must have roll bar attach to frame." If your frame is like mine, it is fairly narrow. You will need to build outrigger to supprt the main hoop and front bars. They will tech you on that.


With that being said, there are pros and cons to buying a prefabbed cage.


Pros:
Pre bent
Pre Notched
Typically comes with gussets and floor plates

Cons:
Fit in side the vehicle isn't always the best. Main hoop too wide, not wide enough ect.
Typically needs notch adjustments to get bar angles correct and comfy


Things that will need to be done either way:
Getting the angle on your bars where they meet the chassis correct.
Cleaning the tube prior to welding for good results.


Personally, I would bend my own ifI had the ability.



Mig or Tig. If it is CM, you have no choice, it must be tigged. If it is mild steel, it is up to you. Tig can look a lot cleaner, but as you know, mig is much faster.

[djracer]

These guys make a pretty good kit if you want to do it yourself.

http://www.swracecars.com/index.aspx

[68racer]

I will post pics of my cage but for now there are some issues to consider when caging. The narrow frame as Super 73 says is the big one. I had a box section outrigger fitted in front of each body mount on the frame of my '68. The cage can tie into these. The rear ones are tricky. I would recommend running the A posts through a hole in the corner of the dash as it keeps it out of the way. The cross bar (behind the seat) needs to be just below your shoulders as the the belts should not angle downwards too much. In a crash they will break your collar bones as the forward motion is translated into downwards pressure if they are too steep. Opinions vary on this but I know what I think is safe. This cross bar looks good if it is bent to follow the cab. Fit the seat and see where the bar should be, it is suprisingly high. The rear bars into the bed can go through the window which is easier or through the bodywork. My cab is double skinned there so this was not easy but I didn't want them through the window. Hope this helps, it is easier to learn from someone else's mistakes! Pics to follow.

[joeys66pickup]

thats what i was talking about thanks that is going to help ALOT

[Garagedude]

Thanks for all of the great info I think the plan is to buy the tubing from my metal distributor, take the truck to my buddies shop who has a bender have bend all the tubing and make all the notches there and tack weld it all together there, then bring it back here and have my neighbor TIG weld it all together he is a better TIG welder then I am so I will let him do it.

[djracer]

If you want to go real fast you need one like this.

[hotrod 80]

Most if not all of us will have to frame tie ( maybe not Marv's Nova , but it's prolly back haved ) , and out riggers are a part of life . Heres my stuff . This is before the back window and Kirkey race seat . My door bars hit pads that are bolted to the floor , but the floor is hole sawed and there are bars that tie to the frame off the bottom of the same pad .



Here is an example of an outrigger . The seat belt bar crotch should tie to the top of the frame rail to make 8 points and to triangulate the main hoop . This would be figure D in the full bodied illistration above . Just my .02

[LuckyHenriksen]

Is an outrigger like that safe?

[joeys66pickup]

Dj's cage is hands down the Gnarliest So *****in

[djracer]

Thanks Joey. Dan Parker of Parker Chassis did the cage when Tom had the truck. Dan is a great chassis builder and nitrous tuner. He races promod and builds Allot of outlaw 10.5 cars and such. The fit and welds on this cage are awesome. I hope I never need to test it but I feel safe in it! That's @ 142.58mph hoping to break 150 next year. Then I'll have to add A Chute.

[Garagedude]

Thanks guys for the pictures, DJ your cage is sick thats what I was talking about with the notches being really tight and the welds being very tight and clean. Has anybody done an X bar connecting the two back bars?

[hotrod 80]

Originally Posted by LuckyHenriksen

Is an outrigger like that safe?

Not by itself . there is another bar from the crotch of the seat belt bar to the top of the frame rail .

[phipp13]

anyone can be a nhra approved welder!. after the nhra inspector approvesyour cage whoever welded it is nhra approved. done probly 100 or so. as for fitment you need a tubing notcher and a digital level.and you can fit a cage tight. as far as tig welding it i strongly reccomend using chromemoly filler rod, yes even for a mild steel cage. you will fond that the quality of the weld will be much better and stronger. i've been an aircraft mig tig stick oxy fuel,silver braze cert for bout 16 years now. pm me if you need any help phipp

[phipp13]

theres no doubt in my mind that dj's cage was professionally done. imho the only way to get a cage to fit good is to bend it yourself if you know how. if not pay someone that does this very well. THE LIFE YOU SAVE WILL BE YOUR OWN!!!!! PHIPP

[D13]

Got an odd question. I'm looking at making a rectangular tube frame that passes thrugh the body rather than under (think an 8"+ channel). The rear supports would go through the metal rather than out the rear window (I'm planning a 2 ton cab rear which has a smaller window). I'd like to have a cage that can be unbolted so that the body could be removed to access the motor (there's an engine set-back involved here, again from the 2-ton). Could I weld the hoops to plates that bolt to plates welded on the frame rails? Otherwise once I welded in the hoops you'd have to cut them off to remove the body, which would not be good.

I figured since it said attached to the frame, and it's acceptable to bolt over the floor, that a nice bolted frame connections ought to work...

[Lx3]

Hey Dj

Just testing my feeble memory. Is your cage 25-1C ?

[djracer]

I don't know what it used to be certified to (its expired) but I will probably need to update it a little more for the new bullet.

[a1953mdl]

What is the best way to attach the cage so it can be removed and subsequently the cab removed also?
This would also need to apply to the rear bars going thru the rear window and the front bars also.

[bigjimzlll]

It's not legal to use plates on a non uni-body vehicle. All tubes must attach to the frame rails or to out riggers.
To weld the cage correctly and to have a tight fit is not easy. All welds must completely go around all joints.
I cut a groove from the front down tobe to the main hoop in the floor board. This allowed me to raise the cab to weld the A pillar to halo. Also it made the rocker bar installation much easier.

[Garagedude]

Yeah but are trucks aren't uni-bodys right? A uni-body is a two piece frame where the body acts as part of the frame right?

[68 C-10 KID]

You Know your fast as hell when you have to put a shut on your truck.
Good luck and the wind blow your way.

[D13]

I guess my question was very similar to Garagedude's. I want to put a cage in my truck that I can remove. I was looking at plates that bolted to the frame, not to the floor. In my case, the frame would be inside (think 12" channeled) and I could weld the main hoop to heavy angle support plates and bolt them to the frame. the A pillar bars would be bolted onto the frame in front and a front support run out of the firewall to tie the chassis together. Similarly in the back.

This interests me as I would like to play around with diffferent drive train and suspension designs, and being able to unbolt the frame from the cab would be key to this.