Child seats for 2 year old - options?

[71swb4x4]

I would like to install 3-point belts so I feel a little better about the child seats. Is anyone running child safety seats? What are you using for seatbelts?
I have a 2 year old and one year old. I would like to be able to at least let one of them ride with me sometimes.

[kelsfine69]

I have a bench bucket in my truck with 3 lap belts. When my first was born I put a anchor in the center just above the gas tank. Punched a hole and made my own bracket out of 1/2 by 1/2 angle iron. Hate punching holes but the gas tank carpet will cover it when i remove the anchor...Safety first

[71swb4x4]

I was considering putting an anchor in too. Do you have a picture of yours?

[Longhorn Man]

granted, I haven't had a child seat in 12 years... but the 2 or 3 that we used back then, did not require a shoulder harness

[1971ChevyTruck]

I called the IL State boys and they want me to use a 4 point harness or a booster seat w/ lap belt is fine as long as you use the strap off the back of it and hook it to something...I used one of the gas tank bolt hole since I took the tank out.

[Big D]

I getting ready to put in 3 point belts in my 72. I would like to also like to do something for the middle seat. I,ve got a Simpson 6 point race belt out of a stock car but I have not figured a good way to mount the shoulder straps since i"m still running the cab mounted tank.

Both my kids are now in booster seats. It says in the manual for the last one I purchased that shoulder belts are preferred for booster seats. I may be a little overzelous when it comes to safety but there is a lot of steel in the dash of these trucks.

[kelsfine69]

Sure have to go to the garage and snap a few. Make sure you use all grade 8 with a big washer on the back

[71swb4x4]

Thanks everyone.

Thanks for the picture kelsfine69. I would feel comfortable using an anchor like that and the lap belt.

[Jcentsr6]

I am a cert child seat installer...The lap belt is more than enough. You will not need to get a 3 point. The lap belt is the most easy/safe opt. to install a child seat properly for someone not trained.

[jorgensensc]

I have to admit that I only use the lap belt in my truck for my little one. I am a friefighter/ paramedic and feel that the lap belt in our trucks hold the seat more securely than most other belts. I usually put my entire weight one the seat and really cinch it down. This does nothing great for the foam in the seat, but about every week I take the car seat out for a couple of days for the foam to go back to where it was. That is a nice anchor point though, I have to admit. This is just my opinion though. Do what gives you a warm and fuzzy inside.
Shawn

[Jim_PA]

Both our seats only have a place to put one belt through, so I don't see how a 3-pt would help any, although I do plan on putting some 3pts in there for myself and other passengers.

[Orange]

I use an aftermarket center belt to install our child seat. I was on the hunt for a stock center belt, but the aftermarket was manufactured recently and has nice new hardware, so I know it's safe and never been in a wreck/stressed. I can get the seat installed tighter in my truck with the center belt than any of the other newer GM vehicles we may be in.

DLB

[Longhorn Man]

That 'anchor' won't do JACK in an accident.
This is exactly why it is technicly illegal (per federal law) for the average joe to upgrade safety stuff. It's a pisser 99% of the cops, and a good 50% of inspectors don't know nor care enough to do anything about it.

[Luvlegs]

Not takin' up on what LH says but the newer cars have an anchor like that in the rear window area for when the car seat is facing forward - I like the idea but in our trucks, I would fear A) the seat itself trying to go forward and only the occupants and car seat stopping it because they are restrained "through" the seat - the seat only has it's 4 bolts in the floor so.... not sure what I'm saying but I personally use the 3 point belt in our car, in the rear seat, in the middle, passed through the one slot, with the special "I" shaped retainer that holds the belts from retracting, with a rubber seat protector (anti slide mat) underneath the car seat. I just about stand on it to make it all tight, then I also attach the two side tethers to the mounting points in the crack of the seats. I'd throw on some steel cable and logging chains but usually at this point, the wife pulls me out of the way and says "We got to go!"...

[1971ChevyTruck]

Originally Posted by Jcentsr6

I am a cert child seat installer...The lap belt is more than enough. You will not need to get a 3 point. The lap belt is the most easy/safe opt. to install a child seat properly for someone not trained.

I have to strongly disagree with this...This would nevy fly in IL...And I kinda disagree with Longhorn--Illinois State Police told me to mess with the belts--Unless our police don't have a clue--although the 4 point harness they told me to use says "Not DOT Approved" If you understand that please explain!!!

[kelsfine69]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

That 'anchor' won't do JACK in an accident.
This is exactly why it is technicly illegal (per federal law) for the average joe to upgrade safety stuff. It's a pisser 99% of the cops, and a good 50% of inspectors don't know nor care enough to do anything about it.

I beg to differ I have a nice piece of steel behind that bolt and in a accident its not comming thru. yes it is not DOT but have you seen some of the "factory" anchors they are alot thinner. With this point installed the child seat is solid. Much more solid than without one. I have installed many anchors im my time... all factory...fom the dealer and ther is not much to them and they are DOT approved. Also would it still be DOT if you took one and bent it to fit a truck?? I dont think so.

[Longhorn Man]

I knew this would open a can of worms...

Originally Posted by 1971ChevyTruck

I have to strongly disagree with this...This would nevy fly in IL...And I kinda disagree with Longhorn--Illinois State Police told me to mess with the belts--Unless our police don't have a clue--although the 4 point harness they told me to use says "Not DOT Approved" If you understand that please explain!!!

Did you talk to the desk seargent, who was tryin to answer the phones and run his crew, or did you speak to someone who actually opened books and looked into it? We are talking FEDERAL law here. Unless a belt comes with a DOT aproval for said make, model, and year, it can not be DOT aproved. A safety item is DOT aproved per application, and not a generic blanket aproval. (some exclusions, like some model lights and reflectors) Plain and simple, there are only 2 set ups that are technicly legal in our trucks. The stock lap belt, and the stock non racheting shoulder harness. When my first truck was failed for later model 3 point belts on a state level inspection, I was arguing like crazy. However, once he took me into his office, and pulled out a book the size of the LA phone book (it was actually 5 books this big) and showed me exactly what the federal guidlines are on this.
As for the 4 point and 5 point harness... again, they are not going to leave it up to the general public to install these items. If installed incorectly, they will compress your spine causing all kinds of problems even paralizing you. Do you have a roll bar with a shoulder height lateral bar in your truck? If not, there is NO SAFE WAY to install a 4 or 5 point harness. period.

Originally Posted by kelsfine69

I beg to differ I have a nice piece of steel behind that bolt and in a accident its not comming thru. yes it is not DOT but have you seen some of the "factory" anchors they are alot thinner. With this point installed the child seat is solid. Much more solid than without one. I have installed many anchors im my time... all factory...fom the dealer and ther is not much to them and they are DOT approved. Also would it still be DOT if you took one and bent it to fit a truck?? I dont think so.

Unless you designed the anchors in these aplications you mentioned (I assume you are/were working on an auto assembly line) then you don't know what is going to happen. Even thin sheet metal, if shaped the right way, and in a certian portion of the vehicle, could out perform a 1/8 inch bar of steel. You never mentioned that you backed it up... that would make it a bit better. But when it comes down to it, that portion of the cab wall is not much more than a large piece of sheet metal. The fuel tank does weigh more than a child when it is filled up, however, that weight is distibuted over 7 or 8 bolts if memory serves. So that would make 500 pounds of fuel only 62.5 pounds (if it's 8 bolts) and actually less since most of the weight would still be on the floor. (not taking into acount the added G forces of stoping instantly)
I also don't know jack about Canada's DOT certification program, nor there laws govorning this kind of stuff. I can only assume they are close to ours.

If these mods make you sleep better at night, and your local cops/inspections agree with you, then by all means, do it.
I just STRONGLY urge you to remove all these things if you plan to sell.
Whomever installed or modified anything that causes or intensifies injurys, isthe person generally responsible for damages. And in this law suit happy (U.S.) world we live in, all it takes is a high dollar lawyer to make things happen. Lawyers make it happen, judges let it happen.

I would recomend getting a child seat that is designed to be used with a lap belt. I am sure there's plenty on the market, since the center of the rear seat is the best place for a child, and not all modern cars have 3 point belts in the center rear.
That, or put the tot in a volvo.
I'm not going to get in a p!ssing match with anyone, think what you want to think, know what you want to know, ignorance is NOT bliss in this kind of situation.

[1971ChevyTruck]

Longhorn...I hate to tell you but that is not correct....

1. There is only one booster seat on the market that can be used with just a lap belt...all others either need a three point belt or a tether strap.

2. I went to two officers at the state police, and two paramedics with the fire dept. All told me to use the 4 point harness since I did not have a three point belt or the $275 for the car booster that will use the factory lap belt.

3. If the ancor point is left in the vehicle it is like selling a race car with all the safety componets ( which I have done) all you need is a full liability waiver for all safety items. Heck you can print these off online.

4. If you follow the logic in your posts then if I had a car that didn't have seat belts (my old 47) and I install safety devices then I'm breaking the law?? I think the local police would think otherwise.

[1971ChevyTruck]

I'll take my chance with my daughter in a 4 point harness with it mounted behind the seat to a bracket using two of the bolt holes for factoy gas tank. I trust that a heck of a lot more than a booster seat with a lap belt...Atleast she's not going to fly foward and hit the dash or even worse be ejected from the truck.

[1971ChevyTruck]

Sorry just don't like being called ignorant!!!

[jorgensensc]

I know I shouldn't get involved, but i will as usual. Longhorn is right about several things. The actual Facts are that you cannot under any circumstances modify safety equipment on a vehicle. That is a FEDERAL issue. Now, do we do it, sure, for the sake of making our vehicles safer. And yes it is illegal to add seat belts to your '47. The local police would love to pull you over for not having seat belts, but they would not be able to make a ticket stick due to the fact the vehicle never came with it. Yes if you add newer seats with integrated seat belts you are breaking the law, (that is why we reinforce the bolt holes when we do this). It is allowed due to the "off road use only" clause applied to nearly everything aftermarket. I don't think anyone is saying your going to jail for it, but the fact is it is illegal. if anything (god forbid) ever happened with that child seat in an accident, the child seat company would not be liable for anything even if the seat failed due to improper installation and unapproved anchor points. And just for the record, I think gas weighs near , 6.5 lbs/gallon (I'm a fireman, I have to know hydraulics) which equals roughly 130 lbs+ tank. figure 160 lbs total, across 8 bolts, with the structural integrity of the tank distributing the weight across the bolts, your looking at 20 lbs per hole. Now I know if you put a little wight behind it you could definitely bend that thin sheet metal by pulling on it. I think you have a great idea and since you put extra metal behind it, that makes it a little better. I'm not saying your wrong, but I think Longhorn man was trying to give you a heads up about the dangers involved in what you did. After all his posts, he knows a thing or two. I think he was just trying to help you out. Like I said, if it gives you a warm and fuzzy, then by all means do it. Just be aware of the possible reprocussions (spell??)
Shawn

[kelsfine69]

Originally Posted by 71swb4x4

Thanks everyone.

Thanks for the picture kelsfine69. I would feel comfortable using an anchor like that and the lap belt.

No Problem....

[Orange]

Originally Posted by 1971ChevyTruck

Longhorn...I hate to tell you but that is not correct....

1. There is only one booster seat on the market that can be used with just a lap belt...all others either need a three point belt or a tether strap.

That's incorrect. Sorry. The TOP Rated booster seat which is a convertible is the Britax Boulevard can be mounted with a lap belt.
http://www.britaxusa.com/
Get the manual and check it out if you like. It does also give you the OPTION to use a tether strap, but it is not required. The Britax's are in fact the highest rated across the board, and the safest in just about every rating you will find. All of them (that I am aware of) can be mounted with only a lap belt.

Our was installed by a certified installer with only a lap belt, and non-tether. It is still rear facing (child is only 7 months).

There is no one that is a know it all on this subject - so please - stop and try not to sound like an authoritarian before you post. A lot of you are really sounding pretty goofy, and this board isn't that kind of place usually.

DLB

[Jcentsr6]

SORRY. Just about every seat can be installed with a lap belt. As far as boosters go...Buy a Britax seat that has the belts built into the seat, and will use a lap belt to install it.

Do not install your own tether to the vehicle unless you are ready to accept
what will happen when involved in an accident. It may or may not hold...but it if doesnt hold...it will hit you or the child when it comes loose...we are told do not use any aftermarket items. If you came in to have your seat installed..I would not use it. Check WWW.SAFEKIDS.COM with questions.

My dealer trains with state police in Maryland...We are CPS cert. Do a search on Fitzgerald Auto Malls and Child seats....You will see we hold a record for the most seats installed in one day. Fitzgerald is HUGE with installing child seats.

[mvfd70]

I think you need to check with the IL State Police on what they mean by a 4 point harness. I'm thinking they're not meaning that you should install a 4 point harness in your truck. Like someone said above, that's not going to work unless you have a roll cage with a horizontal bar across the back to attach the inside shoulder belts to. I think what they are talking about is a child safety seat that has a built in 4 point harness. I don't have kids so i'm not super well educated on this but the child safety seats that I've seen all have the two shoulder straps and a strap that comes from the seat between the childs legs and attaches at the belly. That may only make that a 3 point harness but like I said, I don't have kids and don't really use car seats. Someone that has kids can help me out on this.