..need some help 350 with vortec heads

[regan56]

well, loong time lurker, needs some help.

i have a '56 GMC that i currently have a 327 tore down in the shop waiting for some machine work, pistons etc..but asking around it seems nobody is too excited about a 50yr old engine to work on.

So looking around the web at the local online classifieds i found a 350 already bored 30over with a roller cam, new pistons, and a box of gaskets, rings, and other misc stuff for $1000. he also has a set of vortec heads that "need work" that he would throw in..as well as the crank that is surface rusty that i am pretty sure i could get tossed in as well. the intake he has is the old TPI one that came from the donor ('89 Chevy), i know i dont want that.

From the Ad.."Have a 89 roller cam four bolt main all machined up 30 over with all new plugs and bearings. I've got a set of flat top aluminum hyper pistons on vortec powder pressed rods with ARP bolts. All the gaskets and parts to rebuild it except a crank. Have it but rusted.comes with a lt4 hotcam inside it. Have a set of heads for it but they are rusted as well."

i know i can find an intake to go with the vortec heads and add a nice carb to the top of that, but is there anything else that i need to know or look for when i am checking this thing over?

Will any of my 327 parts fit? am i looking into a barrel of trouble with this any way?

[Speedbumpauto]

I think that's a little steep unless the deck was done before the bore and the bore was done with a torque plate. Also measure the pistons/bore and assure the clearance is proper. Appears the cam is "inside it". I'd make sure there are new cam bearings in there and that the block was tanked and/or jet washed before and after the machine work. I'd also want to know if those rods were re-sized after the ARP bolts were installed. If any part of this doesn't ring true, I'd run from that deal. An apart block and parts isn't worth a lot of money, especially with an "iffy" crankshaft.

[regan56]

..some photos

block showing cam
block
heads

[geezer#99]

Your 327 built right will run circles around that 350.
Not worth that price for a bunch of unknowns!

[mr48chev]

sounds a bit steep when it needs a crank.

I don't know what kind of machine shops you go to but a 327 is just another small block Chevy engine that happens to have a small journal crank rather than a large journal crank and Unless you have a bunch of broken parts isn't a lick more difficult to machine than a later engine. All the machine shop operations are the same as any other non roller small block.

The exception is that you may end up spending a few extra bucks on the heads to have hard exhaust valve seats put in and probably need new guides. outside of the additional work on the heads the machine process is totally the same on any small block from the mid 50's to 1988. Labor prices should even be the same.

The big difference is that when you get away from a "regular" 350 these days parts prices go up no matter where you buy them or who you buy them from. A piston company does a run of 10,000 pistons of a certain size for 350's and maybe makes 400 similar pistons for 327's in the same time frame.

[regan56]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Your 327 built right will run circles around that 350.
Not worth that price for a bunch of unknowns!

i guess heres where i am at..local machine shop wants $1,800 to bore and pistons and all the work to get me to a short block. i guess i could just look into getting teh machining done and buy the pistons/rings/bearings/etc and do the work myself, but lets say the machining costs me $800..would i be able to find the rest of the pieces for $200?

not to meabtion my heads are severly carboned up, and need work. the crank needs to be looked at as well, it may need to be machined..may not..i dunno.

[1project2many]

$1800?? Have them do the basic machine work including bore and fit to pistons, swap piston on rods, and polish/turn crank. Then you can order parts and do assembly yourself. You can skip the head work and pick up a set of Vortec heads to make more power than the originals. There are a number of companies that sell engine "kits" but I usually use naparts.com for chevy smallblocks.

As far as that piecemeal engine, I'd probably avoid it. GM sells cams for fairly short $$ so picking up a used late model vortec block in good shape, refreshing the rings, bearings, and gaskets and throwing in a cam could cost less and get you on the road faster. The Chevy 350 was the cheapest engine to rebuild for years so you might be able to benefit from that.

[regan56]

As far as that piecemeal engine, I'd probably avoid it. GM sells cams for fairly short $$ so picking up a used late model vortec block in good shape, refreshing the rings, bearings, and gaskets and throwing in a cam could cost less and get you on the road faster. The Chevy 350 was the cheapest engine to rebuild for years so you might be able to benefit from that.

..seems to be two different suggestions here?

[regan56]

is it worth it to just buy the vortec heads and let the rest go, or just walk away completely.. get my 327 block bored and decked, buy new pistons, rings, cam, lifters/rods, bearings etc and do the work myself? i can di teh work i just need some direction as to what the best route to go is...

don't get me wrong, i really want to use this 327 just to be different, and i literally got it for nothing.

[mr48chev]

I think he is saying get a late model runner and do a ring, bearing and valve job on it.

The 1800 to redo the 327 sounds a bit stiff to me but I don't know what labor costs and parts prices are in that area either.

Labor cost per hour is the big difference when having machine work anywhere and it is rather hard to do comparisons between areas $$ wise. What might cost me 500 to have done here may cost 900 in Regina and You can expect to pay full list price plus any border crossing fees and markups for parts.

[1project2many]

Originally Posted by regan56

..seems to be two different suggestions here?

There are three suggestions.

1) You can rebuild the 327 for less than the machine shop wants.
2) Avoid the used and disassembled 350 with the LT4 cam and rusty crank.
3) If you're going to buy a used engine, buy a complete engine then refresh the most common wear items, and change the cam.

I like the 327 also. It's a good engine and with the Vortec heads it will make reasonable power for a mild truck.

[magicoolbus]

Why not just buy a crate engine. Less money, warranty and the majority of the engine is already assembled.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-10067353-...-/331381863641

[regan56]

Originally Posted by magicoolbus

Why not just buy a crate engine. Less money, warranty and the majority of the engine is already assembled.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-10067353-...-/331381863641

great for you guys in the USofA..not so much anymore here in Canada.

[regan56]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

There are three suggestions.

1) You can rebuild the 327 for less than the machine shop wants.
2) Avoid the used and disassembled 350 with the LT4 cam and rusty crank.
3) If you're going to buy a used engine, buy a complete engine then refresh the most common wear items, and change the cam.

I like the 327 also. It's a good engine and with the Vortec heads it will make reasonable power for a mild truck.

hhaha, yes i guess so.

i am starting to lean back towards the 327, just getting the shop to bore the block, and polish the crank.

[Marshy]

Originally Posted by regan56

well, loong time lurker, needs some help.

i have a '56 GMC that i currently have a 327 tore down in the shop waiting for some machine work, pistons etc..but asking around it seems nobody is too excited about a 50yr old engine to work on.

So looking around the web at the local online classifieds i found a 350 already bored 30over with a roller cam, new pistons, and a box of gaskets, rings, and other misc stuff for $1000. he also has a set of vortec heads that "need work" that he would throw in..as well as the crank that is surface rusty that i am pretty sure i could get tossed in as well. the intake he has is the old TPI one that came from the donor ('89 Chevy), i know i dont want that.

From the Ad.."Have a 89 roller cam four bolt main all machined up 30 over with all new plugs and bearings. I've got a set of flat top aluminum hyper pistons on vortec powder pressed rods with ARP bolts. All the gaskets and parts to rebuild it except a crank. Have it but rusted.comes with a lt4 hotcam inside it. Have a set of heads for it but they are rusted as well."

i know i can find an intake to go with the vortec heads and add a nice carb to the top of that, but is there anything else that i need to know or look for when i am checking this thing over?

Will any of my 327 parts fit? am i looking into a barrel of trouble with this any way?

Those heads in your picture are not vortec heads. I can tell just by looking at the chambers. The L31 vortec heads that fit on GEN I blocks need to have casting numbers that end in 906 or 062. They are shaped more like a heart where as those are D shaped chambers. Did he send you pictures of the intake galley on the block, is it even a roller block?

Regarding the rest of the stuff, you are really going to have to pound him with some questions to make sure you're not buying a paper weight. You should ask to see the receipt and speak with the shop that did the work. He should know the answers to the questions that the previous posters asked and more if he was planning on building the engine himlself. For 1800 you might be farther ahead by buying a complete junkyard 5.7L vortec engine and refreshing it with bearings and new cam with aftermarket intake and carb.

[1project2many]

Those heads in your picture are not vortec heads.

For some reason people have taken to calling the swirl port heads "vortec" heads. It's a trend that doesn't seem to go away.

[regan56]

so those arent even vortec heads?

[geezer#99]

Does it really matter?
You're not wasting your time on them anyway.
Here's a question for you!
Is your 327 really a 327?
Have you checked the casting numbers?

[regan56]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Does it really matter?
You're not wasting your time on them anyway.
Here's a question for you!
Is your 327 really a 327?
Have you checked the casting numbers?

yes i checked them some time ago, i will hunt that down again..just for my own sake. If i remember correctly the engine casting i have was from a Camaro... '68 if i recall. this actual engine came from a combine, which is quite common.

but ya it matters..more for principal than anything. if hes trying to sell me a set of heads that are or are not vortec heads..

regardless i am pretty much over that quest now thanks to the information provided here.

[paulspickupparts]

They are not vortec heads. And even if they were they may not be any good. I bought two "good used " vortec heads for $150 . With plans on bolting them onto a rebuilt 400 Chevy Small Block that I bought from a different seller. Plans were a vortec head 400 which should make a lot of torque. I took them to my machine shop for a clean up and stiffer valve springs. Both were cracked and could not be rebuilt. Best part was the 400 has cracks from the steam hole to the head bolt hole. So pretty much junk on both deals. I took the word of both sellers. Sometimes it works but if the seller will not stand behind it you are taking a huge risk. Also even if my 400 were good the pistons were down in the hole .025 which would have detonated itself to a slow death. In hindsight I would have put the money toward a fresh rebuild with proper deck height and everything else checked or rebuilt. I would be leary of the seller you mentioned. He lost all credibility already with his description of the heads.

As a previous poster stated the 96 and up 350 Vortec engines are good and have a roller cam. It is the way I should have went for a daily driver. Flat tappet cams are a risk.

GM sells a new 350 with vortec heads . Little over 2K if I remember. Update the springs on the heads . Put in a nice roller cam and you will smile for quite a while . Good luck.

[va4cqd]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

For some reason people have taken to calling the swirl port heads "vortec" heads. It's a trend that doesn't seem to go away.

that's because that's how GM originally advertized them. the vortec heads everyone now talks about are the L31 heads

[1project2many]

Originally Posted by va4cqd

that's because that's how GM originally advertized them. the vortec heads everyone now talks about are the L31 heads

Interesting. I was a dealer tech from '89 to '98. I don't remember the TBI V8's advertised as Vortec power. The 4.3 V6 was called a Vortec in the early '80s in marketing literature when it first received swirl port heads. The name Vortec appeared on the engine when it received poppet injectors. In 92-95 the name was found on the intake cover. In 96 the engines received valve covers with Vortec in big, orange letters. Often when replacing a blown or worn out 4.3 TBI engine with a new GM assembly the engine came through with the new valve covers. There were several Astro vans and Blazers with "Vortec" labelled TBI V6's. And for a couple of years while both poppet and TBI were available on the V6, some engines were installed at the factory with the Vortec covers.

But as I remember it, V8's weren't called "Vortec" until 1996 when they received sequential injection. The big blocks were moved to port injection Gen 5 engines and the smallblocks got sfi on the new heads with 8 intake bolts. Everyone in the dealership was excited when GM released the all-new "Vortec" engines in '96.

Here's an '88 truck brochure. The 4.3 has "Vortec swirl-port induction" but the V8's are not marketed that way. Maybe this changed though before '96?
http://www.tocmp.com/brochures/GMTru...cks-04_jpg.htm

[67 Burb]

Just to give you folks in the USA an idea what we Canadians are up against when ordering parts from the US, that $1580 ebay crate engine that magicoolbus linked to, costs us around $2000 CDN. (We really get screwed on the exchange these days.) On that particular item, they don't ship to Canada, but will ship free within the US (for me, to a point in North Dakota for example). Where we drive to and bring the item across the border ourselves. Then at Canada Customs, we get hammered with Federal and Provincial taxes totaling about $200. So that crate engine that looked like a nice deal at $1580, costs us about $2200. Plus gas to drive down and pick it up.

[1958Warrior]

Just makes me that much more proud to be a Texan

[fleetsidelarry]

Originally Posted by regan56

so those arent even vortec heads?

this is what Chevy is calling a Vortec head these days (casting #12529093, look under 'notes' in the link), although the casting # is different than the earlier Vortecs that Marshy mentioned, the combustion chamber appears pretty much the same. note the difference to the heads in your picture. https://chevroletperformanceparts.co...-head-assembly