47-55.1 What's going wrong inside my 350?

[MiraclePieCo]

I was cringing; glad you turned that balancer puller around. I use a steering wheel puller that screws into the three threaded holes on the spokes inside of the rubber ring.

[DransportGarage]

If the balancer were fine I'd be the first to tell you, but it is not. The two metal pieces and the rubber are bonded together at the factory. If the rubber joint is disturbed it is no longer a sound joint, and it would be a miracle if that outer ring didn't slip. Best case, the slippage would just cause the engine to be severely out of balance. More likely, the outer ring will "escape". When these things come apart at speed it is often not a pretty sight. If you're lucky, all you lose is a little sheet metal.

This guy was lucky. It went out the bottom in one piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAM6povsqno

...and some horror stories: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...cident.390518/

Don't just trust me. Wait for others to offer their experiences. I'd love to be wrong on this one to save you a little money, but unfortunately, that money will be well-spent.

Good luck on the build!

[DransportGarage]

BTW, MiraclePie was right that you should use the three threaded holes to pull balancers. Your local auto parts store - or the Internet - will have one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/ABN-Harmonic-...el+puller+tool

Also, you're not the first one to bung up a balancer, so don't beat yourself up about it. When you put it back on, don't beat on it. Use the big thread in the crank. When you starting pulling it on, be sure you have several threads engaged so you don't damage them, or get yourself an installation tool:

https://www.amazon.com/ProForm-66515...tallation+tool

[Driver_WT]

I highly recommend the balancer installation tool. I screwed up some of the threads on the end of my crank by not using an installation tool. And throw away that balancer, it is not worth the risk.

Good luck with the tear down.

Wade

[MD2020]

Originally Posted by DransportGarage

If the balancer were fine I'd be the first to tell you, but it is not. The two metal pieces and the rubber are bonded together at the factory. If the rubber joint is disturbed it is no longer a sound joint, and it would be a miracle if that outer ring didn't slip. Best case, the slippage would just cause the engine to be severely out of balance. More likely, the outer ring will "escape". When these things come apart at speed it is often not a pretty sight. If you're lucky, all you lose is a little sheet metal.

This guy was lucky. It went out the bottom in one piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAM6povsqno

...and some horror stories: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...cident.390518/

Don't just trust me. Wait for others to offer their experiences. I'd love to be wrong on this one to save you a little money, but unfortunately, that money will be well-spent.

Good luck on the build!

YES
WHAT HE SAID
JUNK, throw it in the scrap pile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by MD2020

YES
WHAT HE SAID
JUNK, throw it in the scrap pile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Done.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by DransportGarage

If the balancer were fine I'd be the first to tell you, but it is not. The two metal pieces and the rubber are bonded together at the factory. If the rubber joint is disturbed it is no longer a sound joint, and it would be a miracle if that outer ring didn't slip. Best case, the slippage would just cause the engine to be severely out of balance. More likely, the outer ring will "escape". When these things come apart at speed it is often not a pretty sight. If you're lucky, all you lose is a little sheet metal.

This guy was lucky. It went out the bottom in one piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAM6povsqno

...and some horror stories: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...cident.390518/

Don't just trust me. Wait for others to offer their experiences. I'd love to be wrong on this one to save you a little money, but unfortunately, that money will be well-spent.

Good luck on the build!

Thank you for the information. The old balancer will be going on the junk pile. Safety first.

[1project2many]

Throw out that balancer!!! DransportGarage is 100% correct. When the rubber bond is broken the inertia ring is a disaster waiting for opportunity.

Rotating objects store massive amounts of energy. I've seen pieces of 3-1/2" cutting wheels take out face shields. I've seen 7" paper sanding discs being misused and crack windshields. I've seen CS144 alternator rotors take out hoods, radiators, and air cleaners before coming out the bottom of the vehicle. I've seen flexplates separate engines from transmissions. If a person has only one rule for safety, I believe it should be "Don't f*ck with spinny sh!t."

You should also look at renting a balancer installer when it is time to reassemble.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

Throw out that balancer!!! DransportGarage is 100% correct. When the rubber bond is broken the inertia ring is a disaster waiting for opportunity.

Rotating objects store massive amounts of energy. I've seen pieces of 3-1/2" cutting wheels take out face shields. I've seen 7" paper sanding discs being misused and crack windshields. I've seen CS144 alternator rotors take out hoods, radiators, and air cleaners before coming out the bottom of the vehicle. I've seen flexplates separate engines from transmissions. If a person has only one rule for safety, I believe it should be "Don't f*ck with spinny sh!t."

You should also look at renting a balancer installer when it is time to reassemble.

Safety is number one. I will also be renting an installer tool. now i'm on the search for a new balancer. I wondering if I should go after market or OEM. I'll check out Napa and bumper to bumper and see what they got.

[1project2many]

irst, find out the thread size and pitch in the crankshaft, then make a tool

7/16" fine thread.

Years ago I made a tool from a disassembled A6 compressor. I used the Torrington bearing, hardened washers, and part of the compressor shaft drilled and tapped. It worked for years but ultimately I was glad when I bought the real thing. Watch for tools that include a thrust bushing instead of a bearing. The tools above have bearings. The bushing is obvious:

[dsraven]

some gaskets come with these which will make your job a lot easier. they may come with the gasket or you could purchase a set cheap likely.

https://www.felpro.com/technical/tec...tion-snap.html

[dsraven]

and yes, with the existing gears still in place, turn the engine over to achieve crank 12 and cam 6 oclock to make the new timing set install easier. use a straight edge ruler or something if you are unsure. don't turn the engine without the timing components in place of the open valves will hit the pistons-bad news.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by dsraven

and yes, with the existing gears still in place, turn the engine over to achieve crank 12 and cam 6 oclock to make the new timing set install easier. use a straight edge ruler or something if you are unsure. don't turn the engine without the timing components in place of the open valves will hit the pistons-bad news.

I will turn the engine before I remove the gears to crank 12 and cam 6 o'clock and use a straight edge.

[dsraven]

actually, I personally would rather do an oil pan drop from laying on a creeper. less neck and leg strain. make room under there and carry on. use some safety glasses and an old set of coveralls because you will get drips of oil. drop the oil and leave the plug out for a day, if you have time, and a bunch of those drips will already be dripped.

[NeoJuice]

I actually had the plug out dripping for a while because I had a ton of gas in my oil. The plug is back in now and a new filter on. But looking it it a little closer I'm not sure if I'm gonna have room to pull the pan right now.

Issue #1: the exhaust needing to be dropped. ( Not a big deal).

Issue #2: looking at the mustang ii cross member I don't think I have enough room to drop the pan.

Did you look at that link I added about trimming up the t/chain cover?

[DransportGarage]

I just watched the plastigage video (17+ minutes for plastigage !?), and I have 3 comments:

1) NEVER put a bearing in as shown in the video. (I.e., don't put the bearing on the crank, then put the cap on top of it.) When you torque it down you will probably shear/crush a portion of the little tang on the end of the bearing half. You install the bearing by hand INTO THE CAP first, then install the cap and bearing using the bolts.

2) Unlike what the video shows, NEVER place the plastigage anywhere except across the CENTER of the bearing half. I always put a smear of oil on both the crank and the bearing to a) hold the plastigage in place, and b) allow easy release of the plastigage when you are done. No amount of oil will cause the plastigage to give a false reading.

3) Sometimes the caps are hard to get off; however, when trying to get the cap off, NEVER tap on the rod, piston or bolts in such a direction that will crush the plastigage. It will flatten the plastigage and make the clearance appear smaller than it really is.

[dsraven]

agreed with dransport, never do the bearing install as shown, like said in a previous post. don't hammer on the bearing cap as described because it will flatten the plastigae and give false readings, put the plastigage on a film of light oil to help hold and release. further to that, use a lint free rag and install some bearing guard to the bearing on final assembly. the video was basically linked to show how plastigage works. sorry for any ill advice there in the video boys, good catch.
on the "shaved" t/cover, like 1project says, it is a common thing to do but be aware of how much you shave off so the seal will fit and stay in place. use good quality silicone and a couple of small center punches or the like to line up the dowels with the holes in the t/cover so you can press the cover down evenly. some will remove the dowels to make it easier then hold the cover in place with punches until a couple of bolts can be started, then install the dowels for line up purposes of the front seal on the crank, don't rely on the bolts for that and skip the dowels altogether.

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by dsraven

<snip> sorry for any ill advice there in the video boys, good catch. <snip>

IMO, this is exactly how this forum should work. Without your post, I would never have responded. 99% of the video is great advice. I just think we teamed up and helped the OP. (Besides, almost every time your advice goes way beyond my knowledge, ds!)

[dsraven]

https://www.felpro.com/technical/fie...g-snapups.html

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by dsraven

https://www.felpro.com/technical/fie...g-snapups.html

wow now those are cool.

[dsraven]

here is another blurb on oil pump pick ups, pan gaskets etc.

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...ans-right-way/

[1project2many]

You can trim the timing cover to reinstall it without dropping the pan. It's something I used to do back in my dealership days. Clean the pan and block really well so the silicone sealer you use will bond.
https://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...87#post5548987

Once the cover is trimmed you will need to put the center into the pan first then push down, against the pan, as the cover is rotated back toward the block. You will likely need to use a tool to lever the cover down as it approaches the alignment dowels on the front of the block. It does work.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

You can trim the timing cover to reinstall it without dropping the pan. It's something I used to do back in my dealership days. Clean the pan and block really well so the silicone sealer you use will bond.
https://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...87#post5548987

Once the cover is trimmed you will need to put the center into the pan first then push down, against the pan, as the cover is rotated back toward the block. You will likely need to use a tool to lever the cover down as it approaches the alignment dowels on the front of the block. It does work.

Thanks for the advise. I'm going to try remove the dowel pins from the block which should make it a little easier to slide down onto the front of the pan. I will also checkout the link you posted above. I'm picking up my new balancer and timing chain cover today. Hope to maybe get to the install this weekend.

[MD2020]

What IS going with your 350
We need some updates?

[1project2many]

Originally Posted by MD2020

What IS going with your 350
We need some updates?

It is funny how many people are checking in on this.
With all the drama available on the internet, we're really just waiting to see how the engine repair works out.