Need some help towing a 77 K25 on a towbar

[Roanoker494]

I have a 1977 GMC K25 sitting approx 100 miles from me that needs to come home. Having never used a towbar personally I wanted to run the situation by some of you fellers that may have more experience. I do have a driver that claims to be experienced with using towbars but I would like to educate myself a little before just taking his word.

First question up is what would ya'll think the true curb weight of a 1977 K25 4x4 High Sierra to be? The truck has a 350, TH400, full float rear, lock out hubs, 3750LB max 16" wheels and E rated 245/75/16 tires. The title states a 4069LB curb weight but I believe that to be a little on the conservative side.

The available towing truck will be a 1982 C30 2wd with a bumper mount ball and standard load rated 265/75/16 tires. My concern here is can that truck handle the additional weight of the K25? I am also concerned that those passenger rated tires may have too much sidewall roll to handle the K25 in a turn.

Next up is where would be the best place to mount a towbar on the K25? The top bumper bolts would give me the levelest mounting angle but those holes are not through the actual frame but through a separate bracket bolted to the frame with just one large bolt. The bumper would have to be left in place or those brackets would surely start swinging around and then there is the concern as to weather the bumper would be enough support to keep the brackets stable. The bottom holes would leave me with the towbar mounted lower than the hitch, which I am not sure if that would "fly" or not, and those holes are at a angle which seems like it would leave the mounting bolts in a bind.

Yes I have considered a tow dolly or trailer but Uhaul says though the truck will fit they will not rent me either piece of equipment if using the mentioned C30. I would be left having to also rent a Uhaul box truck which would put me in the range of $300+, which is saving nothing since many local tow companies would do it for that price.

I originally tried to drive the truck on a 3 day trip permit but the truck has just been sitting for too many years to safely drive the distant. I first had to do a complete tuneup to get it running but I did not make it more than 5 miles before it conked out, this time I suspect the Edlebrock Performer carb to be the problem. I managed to get it running somewhat okay but it still had a problem when it's time for the secondaries to kick in, it could be a weak fuel pump problem but I did not investigate it any further after the front seal gave way and started dumping oil all over the place. At this point it was time to just take it back and try again another day but when I climbed in the truck the brake pedal went all the way to the floor, so either it has a blown out brake hose or the master cylinder crapped out. Just a bunch of little "nick pick" issues but it is clear that driving the truck would be a bad plan.

[MalibuSSwagon]

I wouldn't use the bumper mount for anything heavy myself, I would recommend a frame mounted 2" receiver. That may be why uhaul won't rent you a trailer.

Besides that a C30 is supposed to have a 12k lb GVWR.

[Roanoker494]

Originally Posted by MalibuSSwagon

I wouldn't use the bumper mount for anything heavy myself, I would recommend a frame mounted 2" receiver. That may be why uhaul won't rent you a trailer.

Besides that a C30 is supposed to have a 12k lb GVWR.

I do have some concern about that bumper mount myself, though I believe GM claims them to have a 5000K capacity. Good news is the K25 has a good 2" receiver bolted under it and it should not take much to swap it onto the C30, just a handle full of grade 8 bolts ought to do it.

Using the Uhaul website it shows that even with a proper hitch they would not rent me a dolly or trailer, I even claimed the truck to have a 10K rated hitch. I believe the website is over cautious because a local Uhaul dealer rented me a dolly to pull a 85 Ford Ranger 4x4 home with a 90 Cherokee XJ, even though the website claimed it to be a no go.

[wyattglock]

I am pretty sure that UHaul doesnt have a trailer that will handle a full size 4wd, that has been my experience with them. As to using a tow bar, I had to flat tow my R3500 crew cab dually from Grand Rapids, MI to Lafayette, IN. We pulled it with a 2005 K2500 HD with the 6.0L. That truck almost couldn't handle the dually due to the weight. The other way around, and a few months later, and my dually didn't even notice it. So if you are pulling it with a C30, you would have to go slow and be careful, but it can be done.
We made a bumper out of 2 pieces of 2x4 box steel that was bolted together. The inside box was cut to fit very snugly between the frame rails. Then the frame was drilled for 4 grade 8, 1/2-13 bolts. We used grade 8 bolts throughout, and also used the Reese towpower bar kit. Since the dually was heavier than the tow vehicle, we found an off ramp that was long, straight, and had a shallow uphill grade. Then we loosened the bolts on the towbar and allowed the dually to pull the 2005 Chevy backwards about 20 yards. Then we stopped using the dually and tightened everything back up. This allowed the alignments of both vehicles to come in sync with each other, had no problems towing at 70mph the rest of the way home.

[Keith Seymore]

That's a nice looking setup (above).

The only other comment I would make, that I did not see referenced above, is that you'll want to put the Transfer case in "Neutral" - not just the trans. If you tow an automatic trans very far or very fast you will burn it up, since the pump is not running.

K

[wyattglock]

That would be correct Keith! Forgot to mention that we removed the rear driveshaft from the carrier bearing to the diff. Then the trans was out of the equation on my 2wd. But on a 4wd neutral in the trans is the way to go!
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[Roanoker494]

Originally Posted by wyattglock

I am pretty sure that UHaul doesnt have a trailer that will handle a full size 4wd, that has been my experience with them. As to using a tow bar, I had to flat tow my R3500 crew cab dually from Grand Rapids, MI to Lafayette, IN. We pulled it with a 2005 K2500 HD with the 6.0L. That truck almost couldn't handle the dually due to the weight. The other way around, and a few months later, and my dually didn't even notice it. So if you are pulling it with a C30, you would have to go slow and be careful, but it can be done.
We made a bumper out of 2 pieces of 2x4 box steel that was bolted together. The inside box was cut to fit very snugly between the frame rails. Then the frame was drilled for 4 grade 8, 1/2-13 bolts. We used grade 8 bolts throughout, and also used the Reese towpower bar kit. Since the dually was heavier than the tow vehicle, we found an off ramp that was long, straight, and had a shallow uphill grade. Then we loosened the bolts on the towbar and allowed the dually to pull the 2005 Chevy backwards about 20 yards. Then we stopped using the dually and tightened everything back up. This allowed the alignments of both vehicles to come in sync with each other, had no problems towing at 70mph the rest of the way home.

Now that is the kind of idea I needed, thank you for those pictures. I see that all the newer towbar mounts use two 1/2" bolts in each mount? The older Reese bar I have uses just one 5/8" bolt trough the center of the mount. I am going to have to replace the bar before the tow because one of the arms was bent when a vehicle was mounted incorrectly and towed.

Uhaul does have trailers available to handle a full size 4x4 but you may have to reserve one in advance because they are not usually found on dealer lots, at least not when you need one. It is a tight fit but the older galvanized trailers can handle a vehicle with a wheelbase width of 79", length of 133" and a weight of 5300LBS. The older galvanized dolly can handle a vehicle up to 75" wide and 3900Lbs on the front axle.

[Roanoker494]

I would likely drop the rear driveshaft before towing, across town is one thing but 100 miles is a whole other deal. The front end is easy...... If the hubs are unlocked then the axle will not be engaged.

[wyattglock]

Originally Posted by Roanoker494

Now that is the kind of idea I needed, thank you for those pictures. I see that all the newer towbar mounts use two 1/2" bolts in each mount? The older Reese bar I have uses just one 5/8" bolt trough the center of the mount. I am going to have to replace the bar before the tow because one of the arms was bent when a vehicle was mounted incorrectly and towed.

Uhaul does have trailers available to handle a full size 4x4 but you may have to reserve one in advance because they are not usually found on dealer lots, at least not when you need one. It is a tight fit but the older galvanized trailers can handle a vehicle with a wheelbase width of 79", length of 133" and a weight of 5300LBS. The older galvanized dolly can handle a vehicle up to 75" wide and 3900Lbs on the front axle.

You are correct about the newer style towbar mounts. Obviously, I switched those out with grade 8 bolts from Menards since the inside bolt extends through both pieces of box as well. If I tow with my particular bar again I will swap all the hardware that holds it together with new grade 8 hardware.

I stand corrected on the UHaul trailers! Thanks for the info. Every time I have asked about them here in Lafayette, IN. I get a glassy-eyed look usually followed by a long "Weeelllll, not sure about that...". Now I have some better info to argue that point with.

[Edahall]

I've done a lot of towing using tow bars and the biggest issue is stopping / slowing down. So keep your speed down and leave plenty of room ahead.

Your tires will easily handle the K25 in a turn. But do air them up to the maximum allowable pressure for stability.

Also, make sure your tow bar is fairly level when hooked up.

[Roanoker494]

Originally Posted by wyattglock

I stand corrected on the UHaul trailers! Thanks for the info. Every time I have asked about them here in Lafayette, IN. I get a glassy-eyed look usually followed by a long "Weeelllll, not sure about that...". Now I have some better info to argue that point with.

I did "luck into" finding one of those larger trailers locally back in February, of course I had no need for the larger trailer at that time but that was the only one they had on the lot. My sister had bought a 98 Grand Voyager at tax time and managed to rear end someone just two weeks later. Everyone said the van was totaled but with a couple chains, a big Silver Maple and a lucky find of correctly painted parts I rebuilt it for just $400.

Originally Posted by Edahall

I've done a lot of towing using tow bars and the biggest issue is stopping / slowing down. So keep your speed down and leave plenty of room ahead.

Your tires will easily handle the K25 in a turn. But do air them up to the maximum allowable pressure for stability.

Also, make sure your tow bar is fairly level when hooked up.

Good call on the tire pressures, that is something that I may have over looked myself. I know braking will be a issue so I plan to avoid the interstate all together, mostly because there is a lot of construction going on and the road chokes down suddenly at the bottom of a couple of steep hills. Having to navigate through construction cones and concrete dividers at 70mph, while towing a 4-5K LB truck, really does not interest me.........

If I use the above idea of a cross bar I should end up with a dead level tow bar. I mounted it off the top bumper bolts, just to tow it back to town, and the bar seems to be currently mounted slightly higher than the ball.

As far as safety chains we opted to actually chain the two trucks together versus chaining each to the tow bar. We used a very heavy rated logger chain on each side.

[Roynutts]

For the money and piece of mind I'd spend the $300 bucks for the tow truck to do it . They have insurance if anything happens and no further mishaps to fix on top of the things you already have to fix on it .

[Roanoker494]

Originally Posted by Roynutts

For the money and piece of mind I'd spend the $300 bucks for the tow truck to do it . They have insurance if anything happens and no further mishaps to fix on top of the things you already have to fix on it .

In all honesty for $300 I would just leave it sitting where it is and that price has likely increased since fuel has gone up 50 cents a gallon in the last week.

If the tow bar does not work out I will take a couple of days and see if I can get it running and drive it home. I believe the biggest part of the running problem is in the carb, the front seal is a fairly easy fix but the whole deal would hinge on what is wrong with the brakes. Problem is the truck is far enough away that I can't really "tinker" with it in my free time.

[rustyrodknocker]

I started a towbar thread a few months ago because i had no expierence with them. I read what some of the members have done with the. Keith in particular. So i went ahead and built one and used it you can get my opinions on the expierence there. Also one of the reasons that made me try it was the major towbar companies that cater to the people with big rv's claim that more vehicles are towed more miles on towbars than any method and i believe them. Ive been driving 100 miles per day on the freeway for ten years. I see them everyday
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[wyattglock]

It figures that you aren't very close, but could use my setup. I kept everything just in case, but fortunately haven't had to use it again. I figured that we might adapt it to my friends K5 Jimmy and tow it to the local mud hole called the Badlands in Attica, IN. But he has been to busy with other stuff and we haven't got around to it yet.
Good luck with getting the truck back home.

[Keith Seymore]

Just for fun, here's a few of our tow bar steups from back in the day -











And a more recent one:

[wyattglock]

That's loaded with classic iron! Love to have even a couple of those cars.
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[Roanoker494]

Originally Posted by rustyrodknocker

I started a towbar thread a few months ago because i had no expierence with them. I read what some of the members have done with the. Keith in particular. So i went ahead and built one and used it you can get my opinions on the expierence there. Also one of the reasons that made me try it was the major towbar companies that cater to the people with big rv's claim that more vehicles are towed more miles on towbars than any method and i believe them. Ive been driving 100 miles per day on the freeway for ten years. I see them everyday
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I did use the search function and read through several tow bar related threads, but they all seemed to lack the detailed photos of how they mounted the tow bar. I have also seen many tow bars being used but it is usually the full size 4x4 doing the towing. I remember my dad towing a 1956 Dodge truck with his 1978 C10 sometime around 1992, but he used a old Uhual tow bar that had chains and clamps to attach it.

Originally Posted by wyattglock

It figures that you aren't very close, but could use my setup. I kept everything just in case, but fortunately haven't had to use it again. I figured that we might adapt it to my friends K5 Jimmy and tow it to the local mud hole called the Badlands in Attica, IN. But he has been to busy with other stuff and we haven't got around to it yet.
Good luck with getting the truck back home.

I really appreciate the offer, weather it would be feasible or not. I can likely find the 2x4 box if I kick around the local scrap yard and the bolts can be had at any hardware store.

[Roanoker494]

Thought I would show ya'll fellers just what I am trying to drag home. This is where this truck has sat dormant for around six years. I installed four 3750LB max steel wheels, four used E rated 245/75/16 tires and ran it by the car wash for a quick wash. Did not think to take any pictures after the clean up. The cab is fairly solid with the exception of the outer rocker panels and the bed has rusted through over the tires.



Deer damage


The inside


This engine has seen very few miles since a complete rebuild

[rustyrodknocker]

If you find my thread I think I posted pics. I'll try to put some on when I get my computer fired up. Mine folds so it fits in my tool box but there are some that are very simple and will work just as well. Made from simple angle iron . You just pull off the bumper and bolt it through the holes.
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[rustyrodknocker]

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=491698 Here is the thread there are a few pics . The angle iron one was not in there though
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[C-10 simplex]

Why not just get the right baseplate. Yes it will be a little more than $300, but you'll always have it and can use it anytime.

i think the c-30 will handle it just fine because there is no tongue weight and the c-30 should weight the same as the k-25 if not more.

[Roanoker494]

Looks like the truck will be coming home on a trailer after all. There is a local feller delivering a farm tractor to Bluefield VA and said he would bring the truck back. For payment I am rebuilding a couple of a chainsaws for him, so I get my truck home and get to work on some big saws......

By the way I collect, rebuild and sale many chainsaws so this is a "win win" for me.

[huahuamick]

Great thread! Also my favorite view.

[Duck1]

Originally Posted by Roanoker494

I do have some concern about that bumper mount myself, though I believe GM claims them to have a 5000K capacity. Good news is the K25 has a good 2" receiver bolted under it and it should not take much to swap it onto the C30, just a handle full of grade 8 bolts ought to do it.

Using the Uhaul website it shows that even with a proper hitch they would not rent me a dolly or trailer, I even claimed the truck to have a 10K rated hitch. I believe the website is over cautious because a local Uhaul dealer rented me a dolly to pull a 85 Ford Ranger 4x4 home with a 90 Cherokee XJ, even though the website claimed it to be a no go.

Ye three charts are all off. It hit and miss with them. The told me they couldn't rent me a car carrier towing 79 el Camino with 3/4 ton 4X4 Suburban