California K20 emission question

[DANTIP]

I made a deal on a restored K20 and want to know what the YF5 "California Vehicle Registration" consisted of. I believe on 1/2 models it included the smog /AIR pump. Does anyone know for sure what it meant for a 3/4-ton?

Thx!

[DeadheadNM]

Weren't 3/4t trucks excerpt from smog regs at the time? Does the SPID mention CA once or twice? One is for testing of emissions on the line (Fremont buillt?) the other is for the smog equipment I believe.

[Stocker]

IIRC, my K20 has a charcoal canister and of course PCV. Definitely no smog pump. Has YF5 on the SPID, nothing else. Fremont truck.

[ranger danger]

Originally Posted by DANTIP

I made a deal on a restored K20 and want to know what the YF5 "California Vehicle Registration" consisted of. I believe on 1/2 models it included the smog /AIR pump. Does anyone know for sure what it meant for a 3/4-ton?

Thx!

What year is the truck? There is no smog on 1975 and earlier.

[DANTIP]

Originally Posted by DeadheadNM

Weren't 3/4t trucks excerpt from smog regs at the time? Does the SPID mention CA once or twice? One is for testing of emissions on the line (Fremont buillt?) the other is for the smog equipment I believe.

Here's the SPID.

[jocko]

For C/K20 & C30, it's just a registration/certification thing at no cost to customer. For C/K10, it cost you $15.00 to have more crap on your motor (EDIT - this statement is incorrect, see the "EDIT" below - would love to find out more from a Fremont assembly line guy! - I learn something new every day)

My 72 K20 has the option also. Kind of a weird RPO, i.e. "option" as it apparently wasn't optional! Kinda like that "Canadian Base Equip" thing - if a Canadian, it wasn't exactly optional.

Here's the VIK excerpt below. What I find interesting is that the option was "NOT available on 307 or 402"... So, it's just a 350 thing? (and 6's?? now that's a good question). HOWEVER, I could've sworn the unrestored 72 402's I've seen had a smog pump...

EDIT: actually, as I read it again and dig thru some SPIDs and old pics (and re-read Pete's post), it appears the buyer was just paying to have the emissions test performed on the 350 (and 6's?) as they come out of the factory - i.e. mandatory YF5. Not required for 307/402, and C/K20 & C30. That makes a little more sense I believe - because I don't see the YF5 code on 402-optioned trucks, but I do see it on 350 optioned trucks (all Z-Fremont).

Now that I've restated the obvious...!

[DeadheadNM]

Fremont CA built - suspect it reflects state mandated emissions test on the line being CA built. I also suspect 3/4t trucks built outside CA but for sale in CA recived the same and it's reflected on the SPID too. Reg is likely regulation probably not registration.

Caveat - my Fremont built C30 w a 402 did not have mention of rpo YF5 on the SPID

[Bigdav160]

My 1972 K20 was built in Flint but was originally sold in California. My SPID says

YF5 California Assy. LI

[jocko]

Originally Posted by ranger danger

What year is the truck? There is no smog on 1975 and earlier.

There is no smog TESTING <1975 (in CA) - I'm assuming that's what you're saying. There is smog equipment <1975. While I'm glad other states haven't adopted CA emissions testing rules, it's hard for me to keep track of them all. Now that I don't move around as much, it's not as important, TX isn't too bad. It's easier to pass an old truck that's safe than it is to pass a new truck with OBD II that's safe....

[DANTIP]

Originally Posted by jocko

For C/K20 & C30, it's just a registration/certification thing at no cost to customer. For C/K10, it cost you $15.00 to have more crap on your motor (EDIT - this statement is incorrect, see the "EDIT" below - would love to find out more from a Fremont assembly line guy! - I learn something new every day)

My 72 K20 has the option also. Kind of a weird RPO, i.e. "option" as it apparently wasn't optional! Kinda like that "Canadian Base Equip" thing - if a Canadian, it wasn't exactly optional.

Here's the VIK excerpt below. What I find interesting is that the option was "NOT available on 307 or 402"... So, it's just a 350 thing? (and 6's?? now that's a good question). HOWEVER, I could've sworn the unrestored 72 402's I've seen had a smog pump...

EDIT: actually, as I read it again and dig thru some SPIDs and old pics (and re-read Pete's post), it appears the buyer was just paying to have the emissions test performed on the 350 (and 6's?) as they come out of the factory - i.e. mandatory YF5. Not required for 307/402, and C/K20 & C30. That makes a little more sense I believe - because I don't see the YF5 code on 402-optioned trucks, but I do see it on 350 optioned trucks (all Z-Fremont).

Now that I've restated the obvious...!

Great info. Oddly, the 402 was not available for sale in CA in a 1/2-ton. The balance of the 1/2-ton 402's that went to the other states all had K19 smog equipment. Thx for the post! The collective knowledge on the board never ceases to amaze me!

[jocko]

Very interesting, I was not aware of that. I have seen C10s with 402s BUILT in Fremont, but of course they could've gone to other states. So crazy you could build it there but not sell it there... Ha. There is one 72 C10 swb I had in mind that I ALMOST bought (still wish I had because it was a true barn-ish find) - ended up passing the info to Yote and he bought and subsequently sold it. Anyway, it was a Fremont built 402 - but the guy I went to visit that was selling it was in Vegas, and although he had owned it a long time, not certain he was the original owner. Never realized you couldn't buy a 402 C10 in CA in 72. That explains all the other C10s I've seen in other states, even from Fremont, that had a 402 had the smog equip.
I assume you could buy one out of state and bring it in? Or "smuggle" it in.. Ha. Crazy rules.

[Stocker]

Originally Posted by jocko

So crazy you could build it there but not sell it there... Ha.

Well, I have seen dry counties in the Southeast where they made hard liquor, but you weren't allowed to buy it there....

I assume you could buy one out of state and bring it in? Or "smuggle" it in.. Ha. Crazy rules.

See above....

[Snake Eyes USA]

Old thread I know.

1975 or older vehicles dont need smog.
1968 or newer need emissions.
There is a difference as Im currently learning.
Im currently trying to register a 70 gmc c10 total frame restore with 402 engine into a 72 cheyenne super. Family inheritance.
Truck is imported from Canada to California. Been a struggle fron day one. Now we are needing to pass emissions for a grey area truck that im sure wont pass. DMV has someone they call a referee who ultimately tells you hat to do or makes the decision. Anybody go through similar?

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

Old thread I know.

1975 or older vehicles dont need smog.
1968 or newer need emissions.
There is a difference as Im currently learning.
Im currently trying to register a 70 gmc c10 total frame restore with 402 engine into a 72 cheyenne super. Family inheritance.
Truck is imported from Canada to California. Been a struggle fron day one. Now we are needing to pass emissions for a grey area truck that im sure wont pass. DMV has someone they call a referee who ultimately tells you hat to do or makes the decision. Anybody go through similar?

I'm not sure I understand. Vehicles produced prior to 1976 do not require any sort of SMOG certification in California. If there is an engine demonstrably produced past the 1976 date, you will be required to comply with 1976 (or newer) standards, depending on the date of said replacement engine. If the engine you are using is demonstrably earlier in production than 1976, you ought to be in the clear. Of course, the emissions equipment should still be present for the year engine in question.

[jocko]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

trying to register a 70 gmc c10 total frame restore with 402 engine into a 72 cheyenne super.

I'm not tracking - are you trying to register a 70 GMC with a 402 "AS" a 72 Cheyenne Super? Not sure that would float as VINs won't be correct, but I think I'm just missing what you're saying.

Regardless, if all the stuff you're talkin about is pre-76, you shouldn't have to smog it. Is the problem in getting it OUT OF Canada to the US? You should not have to smog it in if it ever gets there. Not sure why it would hang up at the border. Ok, fess up, what was in the bed...??

[Snake Eyes USA]

The truck is in my garage in California.
4k later in importing and enclosed carrier shipping. All had been checked to be sure in can come to California. We were givien the ok to do as planned. The day we were literally being handed our plates. The lady asked her boss what to do with the old plates. Puts a call into Sac. Town, and they put a hold on everything and requested more things. There is a difference between smog and emissions.
Ca. DMV says the following for emissions. "Evidence of compliance with California emissions standards (1968 year-model and newer gasoline-powered vehicles and 1980 year-model and newer diesel-powered vehicles)."

As for the truck. It still has the same 70 gmc with 402 engine. Numbers match. But Father in law made the outside trim and and grill a 72 cheyenne. It was his favorite truck and closest to it was the gmc and he did the rest.

[Steeveedee]

I'm not sure why they are asking that, since pre-'76 vehicles are exempt. What emissions equipment is on the truck now? Pictures would help immensely. If the truck was destined for a non-California region, your truck would likely only have a PCV valve and closed crankcase, and the thermal tube for carburetor preheat. It is possible that it could have Transmission Controlled Spark (TCS), but that would be easy to tell by looking at pictures. Sounds like someone at that DMV is overzealous. Can we get pics of both sides of the top of the engine, the firewall on the driver's side, and the front left of the transmission? Also, if there is an emissions decal left, try to get a pic of that.

[jocko]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

The truck is in my garage in California.
4k later in importing and enclosed carrier shipping. All had been checked to be sure in can come to California. We were givien the ok to do as planned. The day we were literally being handed our plates. The lady asked her boss what to do with the old plates. Puts a call into Sac. Town, and they put a hold on everything and requested more things. There is a difference between smog and emissions.
Ca. DMV says the following for emissions. "Evidence of compliance with California emissions standards (1968 year-model and newer gasoline-powered vehicles and 1980 year-model and newer diesel-powered vehicles)."

As for the truck. It still has the same 70 gmc with 402 engine. Numbers match. But Father in law made the outside trim and and grill a 72 cheyenne. It was his favorite truck and closest to it was the gmc and he did the rest.

Ok, thanks, I get it now. Yes emissions equip different than smog req, I think we're all saying that. So, the ONLY hiccup I could is if it were a Fremont truck and they are MISTAKENLY wondering if it should still have factory emission equipment - or if it was originally SOLD in CA, in which case they may have a valid case (weak and weasily as it is...) But, I can't see how handing over license plates would have prompted them to call Sacramento?? Unless it was just a matter of course and then they noticed it was sold in CA originally. I'm not seeing it above anywhere, but was it a Fremont truck (which is somewhat irrelevant) and/or was it originally sold in CA (regardless of build plant)? You can answer the first question (is there a Z in the SPID?) - they will likely have to answer #2 - and perhaps this is what they stumbled onto. What is the extra stuff they are asking YOU for? Or are they wanting to research it? I'd just ask them if you haven't - the good news is I don't really seen Anything you've done wrong, and obviously not intentionally. Is there any documentation from the folks told you it was all lying flat (I hope that was DMV? or was it Customs?). Did the boss "see" the truck? in other words is it at all possible it drew his attention because it's being registered as a GMC and looks like a Chev? Surely the VIN check would've alleviated this concern though. Hmm. DMV sucks, I've always hated dealing with them. TX is even worse than I recall from when I lived here in the 90's. A lot less wild wild west when it comes to old trucks as it used to be.

[Snake Eyes USA]

So Cali. DMV is asking for the following.
Vin verification, Which we got done with correct form. But they want it done at DMV.
original registration,Which we gave them from 10 years ago because thats when the car last ran. But said we gave a copy which we didn't. Which we have no way to prove because they have the only original. WTF?
Letter from manufacturer that car meets emissions standards. Which we requested with GM.

Here is the vin..

[Matt Man]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

So Cali. DMV is asking for the following.
Vin verification, Which we got done with correct form. But they want it done at DMV.
original registration,Which we gave them from 10 years ago because thats when the car last ran. But said we gave a copy which we didn't. Which we have no way to prove because they have the only original. WTF?
Letter from manufacturer that car meets emissions standards. Which we requested with GM.

Here is the vin..

I went through the same bs with the 67 I purchased from Georgia, since its not a hybrid or electric car coming in the state does not want it and will make it as difficult as possible for you to register it. What I did was hire a registration service after CHP told me that "they think the frame is not original to the truck" after the DMV sent me there for a 2nd vin check. 110$ later and it was registered. Save yourself the headache and just hire a registration service if you can, it sounds like you're pretty deep trying to get this done from which I was told makes it worse. CHP appointments at least where I live have a 2+ month wait time.

Also as far as the smog goes, even if your truck is 1975 or older, you MUST have all the smog equipment it originally came with. It is a federal offence to remove it even if your area does not require emissions testing, if you get pulled over by a cop he can send you to a referee to verify emissions components. Now granted the odds of somebody getting checked for this is slim to none but you never know....especially in this state. Good luck you can pm me if you want if you have any questions.

[Snake Eyes USA]

Its been a terrible ride no doubt. Doing everything by the book. Never heard of a registration service. Will look into it. Have a reference? Do these services deal with Importing from another country (Canada) into California?
What is needed to still be on the truck for emissions? Its a 70 truck. Did they even have anything emissions? Im fine with Smog. Its emissions Im worried about. From what Im reading it seems eventually we are going to have to go the Referee route. Which Im concerned about.
A whole mess of trouble for something that will be driven twice a month and occasional show. All for keeping things in the Family.

Originally Posted by Matt Man

I went through the same bs with the 67 I purchased from Georgia, since its not a hybrid or electric car coming in the state does not want it and will make it as difficult as possible for you to register it. What I did was hire a registration service after CHP told me that "they think the frame is not original to the truck" after the DMV sent me there for a 2nd vin check. 110$ later and it was registered. Save yourself the headache and just hire a registration service if you can, it sounds like you're pretty deep trying to get this done from which I was told makes it worse. CHP appointments at least where I live have a 2+ month wait time.

Also as far as the smog goes, even if your truck is 1975 or older, you MUST have all the smog equipment it originally came with. It is a federal offence to remove it even if your area does not require emissions testing, if you get pulled over by a cop he can send you to a referee to verify emissions components. Now granted the odds of somebody getting checked for this is slim to none but you never know....especially in this state. Good luck you can pm me if you want if you have any questions.

[jocko]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

So Cali. DMV is asking for the following.
Vin verification, Which we got done with correct form. But they want it done at DMV.
original registration,Which we gave them from 10 years ago because thats when the car last ran. But said we gave a copy which we didn't. Which we have no way to prove because they have the only original. WTF?
Letter from manufacturer that car meets emissions standards. Which we requested with GM.

Here is the vin..

Wow, I'm flabbergasted (yet somehow not surprised...) Hope you get it sorted out soon - I'd definitely pursue an intermediary as suggested if you can find one. How frustrating. Sounds like this is as much VIN related as it is emissions - which adds a bit to the harassment theme in my pea brain. There IS no emission standard for a 72, just equipment presence. And they know what to look at - making you get a letter from the mfgr really kinda boils down to blatant harassment - it's their JOB to know what to look at to know if the equipment is still there.

EDIT: Having said all that, I'm having a BEAR of a time decoding your VIN. Does it have rosette rivets? It's not coming out as a 70 GMC by my notes.
A 70 GMC 1/2 ton with V8 built at Oshawa should look something like: C9E140 1 XXXXXX

Do you know if it was originally sold IN Canada or was it built in Canada and first sold in US? That may not matter, but just curious.

[thebeerbaron]

I can second the recommendation for using a non-DMV registration service. Some are better than others. The one I used to bring my Miata in from my previous home state was terrible. Missed a digit on my odometer, came very close to screwing up the tax I owed by a factor of 10, etc. The one I used to register my 72 was awesome - in and out in less than 10 minutes.

Thinking about it, the difference was that the first was a registration service only. The other offered registration services as a value-add to their smog services. At the second one, they were busy and just wanted to get me in and out, whereas the first had time to screw stuff up.

Find a local smog + registration shop and bring them exactly what the DMV website says to bring for bringing an out-of-state vehicle into CA. Unless the DMV has somehow flagged your VIN/name/whatever, you should be able to walk out with new plates in hand. They will charge you a premium for this over whatever the DMV would charge, but at this point, I think we'll all agree it's money well spent.

Just to give an example of the type of place, this is one. https://www.yelp.com/biz/mr-smog-and...anorama-city-2 I've never been to this place, have no affiliation, just pulled it out of a quick search. Apparently Yelp has an entire "Registration Services" category.

Best of luck!

[Snake Eyes USA]

The plate does not have the Rosette rivets. But able to match vin to a partial on frame and I believe the engine block. (Need to confirm again) Been very stressful especially during holiday madness and work. Were just trying to preserve Father in Laws truck. He spent so much to rebuild it and never use it. Need to look into finding a good registration service. Because were already deep into it and not just a cut and dry walk in and walk out. What does the vin. come up as? I will be calling Father in Law this weekend to get more info. out of him.

Originally Posted by jocko

Wow, I'm flabbergasted (yet somehow not surprised...) Hope you get it sorted out soon - I'd definitely pursue an intermediary as suggested if you can find one. How frustrating. Sounds like this is as much VIN related as it is emissions - which adds a bit to the harassment theme in my pea brain. There IS no emission standard for a 72, just equipment presence. And they know what to look at - making you get a letter from the mfgr really kinda boils down to blatant harassment - it's their JOB to know what to look at to know if the equipment is still there.

EDIT: Having said all that, I'm having a BEAR of a time decoding your VIN. Does it have rosette rivets? It's not coming out as a 70 GMC by my notes.
A 70 GMC 1/2 ton with V8 built at Oshawa should look something like: C9E140 1 XXXXXX

Do you know if it was originally sold IN Canada or was it built in Canada and first sold in US? That may not matter, but just curious.

[jocko]

Lack of rosettes may very well be THE problem, unfortunately. Does the VIN on the plate match the VIN on the title? There is no VIN ref on the engine itself, but initial Canada docs may actually show the engine serial # - might want a northern neighbor to confirm that though. Your VIN starts off like a pre-72 1/2 ton 2WD Chev, and from there I got lost... Anyone know if initial sales destination (as in country) had anything to do with VIN convention on Canadian built trucks?? I just assumed all Canadian built trucks followed the same VIN convention regardless of initial country sold in. Sorry, wish I could be more help on this.

EDIT: before going to General Quarters, I’d also ask someone on here to confirm that Canada used rosettes in 70 - I know GM USA did, but ya never know. Lotsa folks on here have Canadian built trucks - if anyone with a 70 Canadian truck could confirm rosettes that would help.