1965 C10 LWB Project Build Thread

[JohnIL]

I'm new to the forum, but I've been working on a new project for a few months. Let's begin with a bit of history...

I'm located in central Illinois, deep in the rust belt, where old vehicles go to melt away into piles of iron oxide. I've been playing with old vehicles off and on since high school. Most recently, for the past couple of years, my 16 year old son and I have been working on his first car. It's a 1983 El Camino resto-mod. We've done a 5.3L LS/4L60E swap and modernized most of the car's systems. If you're interested, you can check out our build thread on the GBodyForum here:

https://gbodyforum.com/threads/1983-...-thread.79332/

Working on my son's car reminded me how much I enjoy wrenching on old vehicles and it got me thinking that I really needed to find a new project vehicle of my own. It's been about ten years since I sold off my last project vehicle (a 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer) and it's time for something new, er old. I've always wanted an old Chevy pickup for cruises, car shows, and road trips. At first, I was thinking about a 3 window Advanced Design pickup (1947-1953), but those are getting harder and harder to find in rescuable condition. The more I searched the market, the more I fell in love with the 1st generation C/K series pickups (1960-1966). The styling is classic and they're just "modern" enough to be familiar to my child-of-the-'70's sensibilities. Plus, there is tons of aftermarket support for this series of trucks. Pretty much anything that is too far gone can be replaced from a catalog.

I wasn't really planning to buy a project truck until after we finish the bodywork on the El Camino, but, while on a family kayaking trip in Missouri this summer, we stumbled upon a couple of old Chevy pickups in a small town along a two-lane highway. On a lark, I pulled into the driveway to take a peak. There was a '65 C10 and a '55 3600. As soon as I stepped out of my truck, the requisite "junkyard dog" began barking like I was there to rob the place. This, of course, roused the home owner, who walked out front to let me know, in no uncertain terms, that the trucks were NOT for sale. I apologized for disturbing him and we struck up a friendly conversation about the two Chevys. The owner turned out to be a friendly retired guy who piddles with old vehicles a bit more seriously than I do. In addition to the two pickups, he had a Chevelle and a BelAir in the garage. After talking with him for a few minutes, it was clear that he had a few too many projects around the shop. Within fifteen minutes, he was willing to talk about maybe selling off either of the pickups. The '55 3600 wasn't really my style, but the '65 C10 had lots of potential and was already in drivable condition. His "I don't want to sell it" price really wasn't too far out of line, so my son and I visited again the next day and we struck a deal. We returned the following weekend with a trailer to haul the C10 home to central Illinois. I've purposely left the seller anonymous. He seemed like a pretty nice guy, but as I've learned more about the truck, I'm not sure how much I trust him. More on that as we go along...

About the truck
1965 Chevrolet C10 Long-bed Fleetside.
Base-model pickup. The original owner was down right cheap. The truck came with manual steering, manual drum brakes, no AC, manual windows, manual locks, no reverse lights, etc. It's about as plain as they come.
Originally had a six cylinder and a 3-on-the-tree.
A Previous owner swapped in a small block Chevy and a Saginaw 4-speed.

It's clear that the truck has had a pretty sorted past. I am at least the 4th owner and it's been a "project" for at least three of us. The drive train isn't original and it's on its third paintjob. Like my son's El Camino, I'm going for a resto-mod vibe. I like the original 1965 aesthetic, but I want something that runs and drives more like a modern vehicle.

The Plan
Goal: Cool old truck with modern performance and reliability.
Engine: I'm not entirely sure. I've considered doing an LS swap, like the El Camino, but if the small block proves to be reliable, I might consider keeping it around long-term.
Transmission: The truck is in desperate need of an over-drive. I plan to use the truck for road trips. Right now, it's wound up tight at 65 mph. I want something that can comfortably handle Interstate speeds. And, I'm not really enamored with the manual transmission. If it were a Muncie, I might be more dedicated, but with a Saginaw, an automatic swap wouldn't break my heart. Long term, I will probably go with an over-drive automatic.
Suspension: The previous owner was going for sort of a rockabilly rat-rod vibe (more on this later). So, he lowered the truck 2" in the front and 3" in the rear with new lowering coil springs from LMC. The lowered stance helps the modern radial tires fill out the wheel wells and the lower center of gravity helps improve the truck's handling characteristics. My only complaint is that the truck was dragging tail. The rear end was just too low for my taste. I've since remedied this by adding a pair of 1.5" spring blocks from McBay Performance. The result is a 2" drop in the front and a 1.5" drop in the rear. The truck has a mild rake, like a modern truck would have. Long-term, my goal is to modernize the suspension to improve road manners. I'm not looking to go full-on pro touring, but I will be looking at front disc brakes, a power master cylinder, sway bars, and poly bushings. I'm open to suggestion on other suspension improvements. Before I get too far into the suspension upgrades, I will go over the entire chassis with a flap wheel, rust converter, and black chassis paint. I'm not planning a complete frame-off, but I want to halt the rust and do what I can to keep it at bay.
Body: The body condition is a bit of an unknown. Keeping with the rockabilly theme, the previous owner sprayed the entire truck flat black, including the grille and bumpers. Under the black paint is a coat of metallic burgundy. Beneath that is the original two-tone light blue with white. It's obvious that someone has done some bodywork at some point in the past, but it's difficult to assess the actual condition until I dig into it. There is definitely some filler in the body, but I haven't found anything completely egregious yet. The blacked out paint scheme definitely isn't my style, but I can live with it until I'm ready to tackle the body work. If I find any deep puddles of filler, I'll grind them out and patch with new steel. Eventually, I would like to go back to the original light blue with white paint scheme. But first, there will need to be some rust repair in the floor, the cab supports, and probably lots of other spots that I haven't discovered yet. Sooner rather than later, I plan to bring some more chrome to the party by replacing the painted grille, light bezels, and bumpers with shiny new parts. The chrome will look good with the flat black now and even better with light blue in the future.
Wheels and Tires: The previous owner did me a favor by mounting a set of 16" steelies with chrome hubcaps and modern radial tires. At the moment, the steelies are painted red. They contrast well with the flat black paint job, but someday, they'll need to be repainted. When the truck goes back to light blue, I think the steelies would look good in a medium-dark gray. Or, maybe white instead. I'm not quite sure yet.
Interior: The interior is a mess. Whoever sprayed the burgundy body color sprayed the interior the same color. Underneath is the original silver color. The previous owner installed poor fitting black carpeting, red seat belts, and a broken down blue bench seat from a mid-70's square body. My plan is to turn the interior to various shades of tan & brown. Eventually, I want to paint the cab interior tan/taupe/beige/putty, install distressed dark brown TMI low back bucket seats, dark brown carpeting, dark brown door panels, dark brown headliner, and dark brown seat belts. Basically, I want the interior to feel like you're sitting in an old baseball glove. I think this will look pretty sharp with the light blue body color.

As you can see, I have some vague ideas, but I don't have a lot of the details decided yet. I hope this gives you an idea of where the project is headed. All of this should keep me busy, and entertained, for quite a while.

Since we brought the truck home, we've made quite a bit of progress toward making the truck drivable. I've taken notes along the way, but this post is already too long. I'll add the progress notes as a series of shorter updates. Thanks for coming along for the ride!

John

[JohnIL]

Wiring Cleanup Part I
I'm calling this "Part I", but there is a lot of wiring to be tackled and I've only scratched the surface.

-I've already addressed at least a dozen connections under the dash made with wire nuts and some with only electrical tape.
-I completely disconnected the power from the after market radio. It was wired wrong and was producing an alarming amount of electrical feedback through the speakers. The whole thing will get replaced with a modern touchscreen stereo. Until then, I will probably just tear the old stereo out of the dash to clean up the accompanying rats nest of wires.
-The previous owner appears to have installed a replacement fuse block and main wiring harness. While I'm grateful that the new harness is already installed, the installation of the fuse block was never finished. The fuse block was laying on the floor, under the clutch pedal. Not exactly a "factory" situation. The fuse block is now mounted securely to firewall, up under the dash.

There is plenty more wiring problems to be addressed. The under hood wiring is more or less stock. That's not a bad thing, but a lot of it needs to be refreshed and automotive electrical has come a long way since 1965. I plan to install new, heavier battery cables, a heavier alternator charging wire, ground and power buses, and an aftermarket fuse block to protect anything new that I add under the hood. There will probably be some relay wiring in my future as well.

[JohnIL]

The previous owner didn't do much with the truck, other than drive it around town. The engine was grimy, dirty, and in need of some basic maintenance.
-I installed a fresh fuel filter. The old filter wasn't awful, but it had been there for a few years and the element was dirty.
-I installed a new PCV valve and grommet. The old valve was clogged and the grommet was loose in the valve cover. Crankcase pressure was escaping around the valve and drooling oil all over the valve cover.
-While I under the hood, I gave the top of the engine a good cleaning. This exposed rust spots on the chrome valve covers and air cleaner. They are quality Edelbrock dress up pieces, but they're showing their age. These will get replaced someday down the road.
Once I get the truck "roadworthy", I will take the time to change the oil, transmission fluid, etc. It may not be necessary, but it's worth it for the piece of mind.

[JohnIL]

It appears that the previous owner replaced all of the brake lines, but they did a less-than-stellar job of it. Rather than bending and flairing custom hard lines, they bough off-the-shelf sticks of steel brake line and coupled them together to make up whatever lengths they needed. It's messy and prone to leaks. When it comes time to do the front disc conversion and power brake upgrade, I plan to bend up some new hard lines that fit the truck a little better. While we were inspecting the brake lines, my son noticed a pressure blister on the rear brake flex line. This was pretty surprising considering the line can't be more than a couple of years old. And, it's pretty darn scary, considering the truck still has the original style single bowl master cylinder. If that line popped, I'd have zero brakes. Scary stuff! So, I replaced the flex line and my son assisted with bleeding the brakes. By the way, the single bowl master cylinder will get replaced when I do the power brake upgrade. It's hard to believe that a 55 year old truck still has the original master cylinder.

[JohnIL]

I mentioned in my opening post that installed a set of lift blocks to raise the rear end of the truck. I know what you're thinking. Coil spring lift blocks are a REALLY bad idea. But, these blocks are different, I swear! The previous owner replaced all four coil springs with new lowering springs from LMC (2" up front, 3" out back). This left the truck dragging it's tail. Some guys go for that look, but it's not my style. I'm OK with lowering the whole truck a couple of inches to improve the center of gravity, but I like the forward rake of the original stance. Luckily, I found a company called McBay Performace that makes billet aluminum spacers that install between the trailing arm and the bottom of the coil spring. And, because of the way the rear spring is bolted down solid between the trailing arm and the spring retaining cup, the spacer is 100% captive and doesn't add any additional flex to the suspension. The spacers are available in 1/2' increments from 1/2" all the way up to 3". I opted for the 1 1/2" spacers. This gives the truck an over all 2" front drop and a rear 1 1/2" drop. A 1" spacer would probably be better for a short bed, but with the long bed, I felt like it needed the extra 1/2" to set the rake back the way it belongs. Here's a link to the spacers if anyone is interested in a set.

https://mcbayperformance.com/rear-bi...et-gmc-trucks/

[JohnIL]

Bench Seat, Shifter, Etc.
Oh, that bench seat. I'm inclined to hold a grudge against the previous owner over this stupid seat. The previous owner replaced the factory seat with a clapped out blue vinyl bench seat from a mid-70's square body Chevy. I'm sure the original seat was thrashed, but the replacement isn't much better. The padding is shot, the springs sag, and the vinyl is split. So, the previous owner covered it up with the obligatory cheap saddle blanket covers. The seats were impossible to slide in and out of, so I immediately threw the covers in the trash. The seat is still the wrong color and the vinyl is cracked, but at least you can get in and out of the truck. The seat itself isn't even the worst part. The worst part was the position of the seat. They were WAY too low. The floor in a mid-70's square body is 4"-5" lower than the floor in a mid-60's C10. This put the seat 4"-5" too low in the C10 cab. The previous owner had the seats mounted atop 2x4 wooden blocks and bolted down with common grade 3/8" bolts. Ugh. You just can't make this stuff up. The seat was so low that I had well over a foot of head room. It was just silly. And, the wood blocks and cheap hardware made the seats completely unsafe. To accommodate the low seat position and the location of the Saginaw shifter location (almost tucked back under the seat), the previous owner installed a Hurst Competition Plus shifter with a muscle car style shift lever.

https://www.holley.com/products/driv.../parts/3913780

It's a very nice shifter, but the shape of the shift lever only works in a low seated muscle car. Raising the seat to a more normal truck position would put 2nd gear and 4th gear directly into the seat padding. Drastic measures were in needed...

Someday, I plan to replace the bench seat with a pair of fancy TMI low back buckets. But, I'm not ready to spend a few thousand dollars on the interior just yet, so some sort of compromise had to be made. I addressed both the seat height and the seat safety issues by fabricating a pair of steel seat risers 4 1/2" tall. That's a full 3" higher than the 2x4 wood blocks. I bolted the new risers to the floor and the seats to the new risers with fresh grade 8 hardware. Now that the seat was at a more natural height, the shifter was basically unusable. So, I unbolted the shift lever, clamped it in my bench vice, and used a long cheater pipe to bend it ( just above the center bend) forward until the 2nd gear and 4th gear positions are almost directly straight up. This provided the necessary clearance to the front of the seat. On the other hand, it also put the 1st gear and 3rd gear positions directly into the front of the triple gauge cluster mounted under the center of the dashboard. That was easy to fix. I cut out a piece of aluminum plate the same width as the gauge cluster and 3" deep. I mounted the plate to the bottom of the dash and the gauge cluster to the plate. This effectively moved the gauge cluster 3" forward, underneath the dashboard. They are still readily visible and well out of the way of the new shifter position.

New Shifter Knob
I know this seems like a petty detail, but the shifter knob was all wrong. First, it was white. Again, this is a mid-60's pickup, not a 70's muscle car. Second, the shift pattern engraved in the knob was for a different transmission. It was the Muncie pattern with reverse up and to the left instead of the Saginaw pattern with reverse back and to the left. Third, the knob was cracked and loose because someone bottomed it out on the shift lever instead of using a jamb nut to tighten it in the correct orientation. That was at least two strikes too many for me, so I ordered a new black knob with the correct shift pattern and a proper jamb nut. Much better now.

Shifter Boot
Another petty detail, but whoever installed the 4 speed just hacked a hole in the floor and stuck the shifter handle up into the interior. A cheap black vinyl shifter boot covered up the jagged metal edges and helps keep the outside on the outside.

[joesscamaro]

Thanks for all the detailed write-ups. Enjoyed reading along and look forward to tracking the progress.

[JohnIL]

Thanks Joe. I don't know how fast my progress will be. I'm excited to work on the truck, but I have to split time with the bodywork on my son's car. I don't want to lose momentum on that project. I'll try to post some better pictures of the truck in the next couple of days.

John

[Braunschweiger]

Wow a long Report, very interesting, welcome here, I can't wait to see the Pictures.

[JohnIL]

Thanks Harald! I'm sorry about the longwinded introduction. This represents three months of nights and weekends. I've been making notes as I got along. I already had it all typed up and I wanted to get it all documented here in the build thread. I like what you've done with your '62. I'm looking forward to reading through your build thread too!

John

[88Stanger]

JohnIL, Welcome to the board! Your attention to detail is unmatched in description. I can appreciate the details and if I am not mistaking, you are not doing this just for us to read, but for you to have like a diary of your adventure with the truck. I think that is a good idea, write it down while you remember all the details so if needed you can come back to it.
I do sort of the same thing, but i do it with Pics, lots and lots of pics. I have only put maybe 1/10th the amount of pics I have on mine as the details as you mentioned may not mean anything to anyone else, but to me there is something in each photo that I may need and honestly more than just a few times I was so glad I took all those pics to fall back on to look at and help with my build.
Great job so far, I excited to see your progress.

[JohnIL]

Thanks Stranger! You're spot on. I'm writing the build thread as much for documentation as for entertainment value. The build threads are my favorite part of forums like this one. Writing is part of my job, so I tend to be long-winded. I just hope that documenting my misadventures can help others along the way. I will be posting some progress pictures as soon as I can get the truck out in the sunshine.

Thanks.
John

[Braunschweiger]

It's a good Read and when you Read it again later for yourself, the Memories flood your Mind again.
Oh yes, there will be setbacks, it's more of a part of it.

[SCOTI]

John,

You could always introduce your Elky build over in the 'Alternate Tinkerings' forum section.

[JohnIL]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

John,

You could always introduce your Elky build over in the 'Alternate Tinkerings' forum section.

Scoti,
That's an interesting idea. I just might have to do that.

Thanks.
John

[JohnIL]

Harald,
I know exactly what you mean. At the time, those early setbacks were aggravating. But, the triumph of overcoming those setbacks makes up for the aggravation.

John

[joesscamaro]

Looks good and makes it a totally different looking truck!

[JohnIL]

Originally Posted by joesscamaro

Looks good and makes it a totally different looking truck!

Thanks Joe! I couldn't agree more. Chrome makes all the difference!

[Braunschweiger]

It looks great, the Chrome suits the truck, I love it on mine, I bought the OER Grille from Summit, it fitted well.

[JohnIL]

Originally Posted by Braunschweiger

It looks great, the Chrome suits the truck, I love it on mine, I bought the OE Grille from Summit, it fitted well.

Thanks Braunschweiger. I'm enjoying your build thread. It's good to know that the Summit grille fits better than the LMC grille. It's hard to know what aftermarket parts work well until you give them a try. Hopefully, our experiences will help other forum readers.

[SCOTI]

And these forum build threads are the best for sharing that info. I like the updated grille.

[Arne]

I'm with you all on the chrome as well, for some trucks—mine included.

My truck had an uninstalled chrome grill amongst all the various included parts. I don't know for certain where the PO bought it, but based on where other parts came from I'm guessing it was from Classic Parts (not Classic Industries). I also used the original headlight buckets and center support. I didn't have quite the fitting issues you did, I don't recall any problems mounting the headlight buckets, for example.

I got my bumper from Classic Industries. It's one of the new OER Premier line, which seems to be a much heavier gauge steel (weighs over 30 lbs.) with very nice chrome.

[duramax55]

arne do you know if a chevy grill would fit on a gmc

[joesscamaro]

Good to see some update on your truck. When you get those seats in there, please post pics. I've been on the hunt for the "perfect" seat myself.

[JohnIL]

Originally Posted by joesscamaro

Good to see some update on your truck. When you get those seats in there, please post pics. I've been on the hunt for the "perfect" seat myself.

Thanks Joe. The new seats are first on my list when the weather turns warm and the rain washes away all of the salt on the local roads. I'm hoping to get the truck back on the road on/near March 1.

John