Bell Housings

[KEH]

Can anybody tell me what starter I need to get for this 4 speed bell housing? I'm going from my 3 speed trans (on right) to a 4 speed (on left) that I picked up many years ago & don't know what it came off of. The starter mounting is totally different on the 4 speed. Is there any other problem with using the aluminum bell?

Thanks for your help.

[jmanz69]

Just bolt the 4 speed trans to the 3 speed bell and you are set. No need to change. Then sell the aluminum bell to someone and make a little money back. Just my thought

[KEH]

jmanz69,
That's what I was thinking too but the hole (where the trans shaft goes thru) is bigger on the 3 speed than the 4 speed. Also since I like the looks of the aluminum bell, and I need a new starter anyway, I'm wanting to use it.

Thanks

[crazy longhorn]

You must have a car 4spb, or a 67 or older truck 4spd trans. You can use the alum bell.....just check that the flywheel will clear (if the bell is from a car), as some of the cars had a smaller flywheel. The starter from an auto trans truck should fit (14" dia ,168 tooth flywheel/ staggered bolt pattern on the starter) block mount. Good luck.....crazyL

[Johns70]

don't forget that since you are changing bells you will have to run a auto crossmember and mount since your getting rid of the castiron bell that has the mounts on it.

[KEH]

Thanks guys for the input.

Seems like the best thing to do is keep the original bell and take the 3 speed trans input shaft collar & put it onto the 4 speed. It looks like they are interchangable.

[jmanz69]

I would like to see a diference between the 3 speed collar and the 4 speed collar. I may want to do the same when I put the 4 speed in my truck. Is the flange circle bigger to fit the bellhousing hole better?

[68 Stepside]

Member Racedvl has done a 4 speed swap using the original 3 speed bellhousing. He bolted the trans straight to the 3 speed bellhousing, even though the 3 speed bellhousing has a larger hole. He's run it that way for years, with no problems. At least I think he did that.... Care to elaborate Racedvl?

tt

[KEH]

Thanks 68 stepside. That's what I'm going to do. I took off the collars (wish I hadn't because they have gaskets) and they are not interchangable because they have different size bearing seats.

Also jmanz69, the bottum 2 trans mount holes on the 4 speed are not threaded (unlike the 3 speed) so it will require a nut & bolt.

[crazy longhorn]

if you go 67 or older on the truck bell, the car trans will slide right in with the proper pilot. The car, & 67 back truck had a 4 11/16 hole in the bell.......68 up on the truck is a 5 1/8" hole. As far as the bolt & nut on the bottom 2 holes, thats not a problem(been there & done that). I have a 66 bell that I have run a saginaw 4 spd, & also an M 21 muncie behind......the center hole is the proper size for the car trans.......crazyL

[roger0080]

I too have done a stock 3 spd to a 4spd changeover.

I wouldn't let the hole size difference bother you as in my changeover I took that 2WD pickup fully loaded out to Utah and did all the trail driving I could. I'ld have to say that stressed the whole truck pretty good! and yet it made it 2000 miles back to Minnesota!

I'ld rather have the stock belhousing vs those 1 piece aluminum ones as you can peak in at the clutch and throw out bearing from below.

-Roger

[crazy longhorn]

While some of the guys are getting by with the large hole truck bell, & the car trans.......my luck doesnt usually run that way on something I try to "cheat" on! The trans needs to be set up with the shaft in almost perfect center alignment of the crank for good trans life/shifting , ect. that is why a lakewood scattersheild is indicated to center the trans. If you plan to crank it up, & pound some gears.......you will be better off to chase the pcs that fit together, or have a ring pressed on the outside of the collar to give you a true center. Not an arguement guys.......just one of the things I have learned the hard way over the yrs....crazy L KEH, what 4spd trans are you going to run?

[KEH]

CrazyL, I do agree with your position. I'm going to check into having a ring made to fill the gap. If that's not doable then I will install using the truck bell as a couple others have done, especially since I won't be doing any hard driving with this truck.
Below is the 4 speed trans I'm installing. I believe it was you that told me it's a saginaw -- I was hoping it was a muncie.

[KEH]

Here's a little better pic...

[mikep]

That doesnt sound like much of a problem. what size ring do you need ID, OD and thickness? You do the measurements. make sure their right ! I'll make you up a ring minus a few thou on the inside so you can press it on for a good interference fit ( torch time ) . You pay the shipping.

[crazy longhorn]

yes, the 4spd is a saginaw, & should have 7 bolts on the side cover.......Im curious about the 3spd tho......does it have 7 bolts on the cover, or 9? I did a little swapping on saginaws, & there were 2 different collars on the 3 spd, but they would swap to get the right pilot for the bell you were using. its been a few yrs, but I dont recall any big differences from the 3 & 4 spd saginaws on the front bearing. Saginaws had a c clip holding the bearing to the input shaft(3 or 4spd), but the Muncies had a thin threaded nut with 2 flats on it to hold the bearing tight to the shaft. do you by chance have a closer shot of the 3 spd trans?

[KEH]

Here is the 3 speed, I think it's a Muncie. I would have liked to use the 3 speed collar but after comparing both, the bearing seats were different.

Mike, your help sounds great. My only concern is how much lattitude there is on my measurements? I wouldn't want to worry about the ring working its way off. BTW, the specs are 5.12 od, 4.685 id, & 5/16" thick would be good. What would that cost me?

Thanks

[crazy longhorn]

Yes, that does look like a Muncie 3 spd. It sounds like Mike has you covered on the ring(it shouldnt cause any trouble). If you do a little checking, I believe you can bolt a collar from a 3 spd truck trans (68 -up saginaw) right on to the 4spd saginaw.......like i said, its been a few yrs.......so I wont promise that it will fit. good luck....crazyL

[mikep]

all its going to do is locate the bellhousing . Once its bolted on I would expect that the ring will ever move especially if its done a few thou under and interference fit by heating to expand the sleeve . I'll make it out of aluminum. It'll be about 10 days before I can get to it as I am heading out of town in the morning to Philladelphia on business for a week or so. No charge except for shipping.

Mike

[jmanz69]

I'll take one of those collars to if it's not too much trouble. I will be doing the same swap when (if) I ever get my truck back together.

thanks
jmanz69

[mikep]

No problem. I'll just do 2 at once on the lathe.

[jmanz69]

Cool, thanks.

PM me when it's ready.