1965 C10 Fleet Project - unfinished business

[jmarkha1]

After lots of lurking, reading other peoples build threads I finally bought a C10 - what could go wrong?
Buy a nice clean truck and just use it - right?
Hmm - that was the plan but as usual I just couldn't leave it alone and started tinkering on the poor little truck.

I looked for "the right truck" for some time - initially looking at 67 onwards trucks then briefly F100s (sorry) and finally settled on a 64-66.
OilCityNC in Hayling Island UK had a lovely looking solid truck that they had bought from the original owner in California and it looked like a goodun so after a look over it I decided to go for it.
couple of pics of the old girl still in US:



My prior project cars have always been air cooled Volkswagens - very different from US pickups but they all appeal to me.


I have always hankered after a pickup and have built a LandRover Defender - which was really nice but tiny.


When the truck arrived on the back of a flatbed truck the sheer size of the thing dawned on me! - well the length of the bed more than anything. I love the proportion of the long bed but ultimately realised pretty early on that I wanted to shorten it - but didn't know how.



After fiddling about with the truck a bit in preparation for its first MOT test I found there were a few bits that would need sorting:
it had 2 inch thick wheel spacers all round to allow fitment of 5 stud chrome wheels to the 6 stud drums - these had to go :-)
I got a set of wheel vintique steels - 8 and 6 inch wide with 255 and 235 tyres - this was a great improvement in my book.

The original 283ci motor had been swapped out for a 350 at some point and was a good runner with a dual plane intake, quadrajet and HEI dizzy bolted up to the original 2 speed glide with column change. I was pretty happy with the motor and trans but after a few longer trips I started reading articles about how overdrive boxes and LS motors worked well for these trucks - more of that to follow.

Other than the wheels and tyres the other addition to the truck was an original 60's camper shell which was made in cali originally - a great addition to protect the bed from the UK weather - which tends to be a bit WET.



more to follow - at this point the truck is mostly in boxes :-0

[The Rocknrod]

Sounds like a great truck. Can't wait to see more.

[jmarkha1]

A good look round the truck and overall it has done very well being over 55 years old - the warm climate has certainly helped.

A few addd ons over the years like many other trucks - modern stereo hole elegantly added with tin snips, the AC holes in the core support with a gas spanner - the usuals but nothing to worry about overall.

The kick plates and inner cills have a few holes from sitting water and the usual dents to sort out (or not).

I decided to pull the motor and build a simple 6.0 LS with 4L80e - with a carb and minimal electronics - I wanted a quiet, strong motor that could tow stuff and also be a bit of fun when the need arises :-)

I sold the motor and glide as a package locally and once gone I could start tearing the LS donor motor down...

[Grizz1963]

Good to see you posting up.

Like many of us, so many toys over time.

Nice truck.

[jmarkha1]

thanks Grizz

yes - too many toys and not enough time -

Originally Posted by Grizz1963

Good to see you posting up.

Like many of us, so many toys over time.

Nice truck.

[Paul Y]

Looks like a nice truck - when's the next instalment as I take it that you are a bit further on than the pictures above!

P.

[jmarkha1]

Thanks P
Yes - a few months worth to catch up on.
I’ll post something every day to get up to current day :-)
That way you can keep me honest with updates

Originally Posted by Paul Y

Looks like a nice truck - when's the next instalment as I take it that you are a bit further on than the pictures above!

P.

[jmarkha1]

LS engine stripdown

I bought a used 'donor' engine - sight unseen through a engine buyer in UK - a bit of a gamble and the 'first' engine that arrived looked tidy BUT one of the pistons didnt move when turning the motor over! - this engine was collected and inspected - a rod had snapped and tried to escape through the side of the case - without quibble another engine was sent overnight and I started again.

The replacement looked good on first inspection and once fully stripped down all I could find was a pitted cam lobe and a missing lifter.

The engine is a 2005/2006 LQ4 - probably out of a delivery truck or similar - the front pulley is a long version and it has 317 heads that are lower compression.

The rods are the later gen4 floating pin type but the ignition is a 24 tooth early version.

All the heads seemed good and the bores still had crosshatching intact - more on that later!

The plan was to change out mains, rod, rings and all the usual seals and put it back together. However, a schoolboy error changed things.

[jmarkha1]

Engine build - the scratched bore!

I cleaneded everything up and built the bottom end - time to install the pistons, rods - stupidly I thought I would use my trusty old ring compressor - nomally used for 90mm vw stuff so maxed it out for the LS pistons and ended up twisting a ring and then pushing it down the bore.

I might have got away with a ball hone but did not want to risk the build so decided to have the block cut .30" and decked. They also cut the heads .30" to raise the CR up a little over 10:1.

I used Summit LS PRO forged pistons along with some valvetrain upgrades from Brian Tooley Racing.

The entire bottom end was dynamically balanced and blueprinted and I sourced MSD intake kit along with a Holley 750 DP to make a simple motor that I could add onto at a later date if needed :-)

This all went together with new ancillaries and accessory drive from ICT to make a tidy little motor - now to source a 4L80e for it.

[Paul Y]

Now that looks very nice!

Did you swap the cam out for a BTR stage 2 or the like?

Would be good to hear your feedback.

P.

[jmarkha1]

Thanks Paul - yes went with BTR stage2 kit which came with dual springs, tougher pushrods and retainers. I didn’t want to go mad on cam and make the truck useless low down in rev range.

BTR do turbo cams also 😉
Only other cam related thing I did was to change trunnions to brass bushings and lost all the rocker roller bearings - apparently they can let go into the motor - relatively inexpensive to change.

All new this LS lark but have enjoyed working on it so far...

Originally Posted by Paul Y

Now that looks very nice!

Did you swap the cam out for a BTR stage 2 or the like?

Would be good to hear your feedback.

P.

[Paul Y]

That will make two of us then!

Not purchased my cam as yet but going to go for the Sloppy stage 2 and pak springs. Like you I am going to upgrade the trunions, seems silly not too really…

P.

[88Stanger]

Just a fair warning.... I have an LS 5.3 in my 1969 that was fully rebuilt, upgraded cam and lifters and such, stock heads cleaned up and work a bit, headers, changed out intake and throttle body... and so on. With that said, honestly the hardest part is the wiring. I went with PSI Conversions. Great company honestly, BUT they do not do any custom stuff, so getting the GM Brain programed to work with your set up... that is up to you to find someone that can and will, get your checkbook out.... I have done this and i am very frustrated at the outcome. I cannot work on it, see issues and such because i do not have the software to work on it, proprietary with GM or such that i know of. Anyways, I have done alot of research and found that Holly makes a complete wiring kit with mini screen or full computer program for the LS Family! It comes with everything to make it work and allow you to do complete custom tune or just allow the computer to self learn. It is not cheap at $1400.00 for me with 4L60E but then again PSI was over 1,000.00 so ...... anyways, just something to keep in mind. Not saying to not go with PSI or other or redo stock harness yourself, just giving out what i have found.

[jmarkha1]

thanks 88Stanger - I totally hear you on the electronics, ECUs and such - I have actively avoided as much as possible.

I have gone with an MSD1412 unit that manages the ignition, cam and crank sensors and have a unit for the 4L80e that changes gear for me with the help from the sensor on the Holley carb.

So - I'm "hoping" that I can avoid tuning or needing specialists to get everything to play nicely in an old truck :-)

Only other unit I needed to get was a digital to analogue speedo converter - a funny little box of tricks that takes the speed sensor output from the 4L80e and turns it into a short speedo cable in to the back of my stock gauge - magic - if it works - we shall see...

Originally Posted by 88Stanger

Just a fair warning.... I have an LS 5.3 in my 1969 that was fully rebuilt, upgraded cam and lifters and such, stock heads cleaned up and work a bit, headers, changed out intake and throttle body... and so on. With that said, honestly the hardest part is the wiring. I went with PSI Conversions. Great company honestly, BUT they do not do any custom stuff, so getting the GM Brain programed to work with your set up... that is up to you to find someone that can and will, get your checkbook out.... I have done this and i am very frustrated at the outcome. I cannot work on it, see issues and such because i do not have the software to work on it, proprietary with GM or such that i know of. Anyways, I have done alot of research and found that Holly makes a complete wiring kit with mini screen or full computer program for the LS Family! It comes with everything to make it work and allow you to do complete custom tune or just allow the computer to self learn. It is not cheap at $1400.00 for me with 4L60E but then again PSI was over 1,000.00 so ...... anyways, just something to keep in mind. Not saying to not go with PSI or other or redo stock harness yourself, just giving out what i have found.

[jmarkha1]

The gearbox refresh - 4L80e

After a bit of reading on the Tinternet it seems these LS motors have been known to punish some gearboxes.

The 2 speed power glide whilst very strong and simple - I thought it would get a bit old revving the poor motor on a run so decided to go for an overdrive box.

The TH400 is known for its strength but it is only available in 3 speed.

The 700R4 is a 4 speed but too many haters online saying they are fragile - whilst Im sure you could build one to last - it probably would not be in my budget.

So the 4L80e seemed to tick most boxes - strong, 4 speed, a bit more modern - the only slight negative for me was it would need an electronic controller and a speedo converter to use the stock gauges.

I managed to source a box “that was running well when pulled” - always a gamble but it was cheap enough to use as a core if it turned bad.

It arrived on a pallet with a converter and no yoke. All looked well on the outside so time to crack it open and fit a shift kit and a few other small mods to help it along - as well as a new harness and filter and gaskets.

Its always a bit scary opening up an auto if you haven’t done one before - the fear of having a ballbearing left over when “you’re done”.

Lots of Youtube videos later and a few parts and I was ready.

It all went surprisingly well - drilling holes in oil galleries isn’t something to get mostly right :-)

I added a deeper sump for some additional fluid and fitted some AN6 fittings to allow an external cooler and fan to keep things from getting too warm.

A sonar forged yoke added on a slip joint to make hooking the prop a bit easier - the tuck is now short so I can run a single prop and loose the centre bearing on the crossmember.

A couple of links to the parts I went with use in case they are useful to anyone else messing with 4L80s :-)

The TransGo Reprogramming shift kit for 4l80e and 4L85e - https://transgo.com/product-details/4l80e-hd2/

The gearbox controller - https://www.tciauto.com/ez-tcu-gm-4l...ontroller.html

The TCI deep sump - https://spike-performance.com/produc...-deep-oil-pan/

The speedo converter box of tricks - https://www.dakotadigital.com/index....rod/prd886.htm

[Paul Y]

Ice cream and burn outs by the weekend then.

P.

[jmarkha1]

If only :-)

I’m catching up quickly with my photos - couple more posts and I’ll be up to date - looking forward to hearing yours fire up...

Originally Posted by Paul Y

Ice cream and burn outs by the weekend then.

P.

[jmarkha1]

Chassis Shortening

There are many threads on how to cut down a short bed luckily so I had almost done the job in my head before I had started.

However - I did not have either a clear garage space or a decent welder so happily let the professionals do this part of the project for me.

I used Valley Gas Speedshop in Andover UK - they were fantastic - they filled my specific (pedantic) requirements and also recommended some improvements.

The truck was delivered to them with cab and bed mounted so they had both the chassis and also the bed sides to cut.

The chassis was cut 20” using a large step joint with rounded corners and also a box behind which provides a lot of additional strength.

To provide some additional rigidity they added large gussets along the rails and crossmember.

To allow for a frame height exhaust 2 large tubes were welded into the crossmember also so I could tuck the tubing up into the frame.

The rear of the rails were also trimmed slightly to allow the fitment of a mid 60s mustang 16 gal tank and the addition of a removable rear crossmember to add some protection for the bed mounted tank.

The rear cab mounts were moved back 12” and all unnecessary tabs were removed to clean things up.

Finally a set of HD C notch panels were added to allow the truck to be lowered at the rear and not risk contacting the frame on the axle.

The chassis would then be ready for media blast followed by 2k epoxy and a tough chassis paint.

final picture is one of my hens using the chassis to perch on - its useful to someone at least...

[jmarkha1]

Bed Side Shortening

Valley Gas handled the bed side shortening for me - cutting them 12” ahead of the wheel opening and 8 behind.

The RHS bedside went smoothly but the LHS had a secret - a bond secret.

There was approx 25mm of bonds towards the rear of the bedside stretching across the wheel opening to the front.

Bondo does not play nicely with a TIG welder so it all had to come off to reveal the battle scars.

Surprisingly the condo did not match the dent. Valley cut out additional sections of the damaged side and replaced them with the cut sections from the RH side.

Although not straightforward I have retained the factory bedsides and they will only require light filling to correct the joints.

All the stake pockets and holes were removed along with many holes added for hooks and other add ons over the years.

[Grizz1963]

AMAZING WORK

Really nice to see what you have had done

[jmarkha1]

Truck is now short and ready for the blastfest to start.

Photo showing how deep that bondo was on the bedside - pleased how it turned out - the panels are relatively straight and everything sits nice and square on the revised frame.

I made up some dollies for the frame to make it easier to push the frame around on the gravel - I hate gravel when working on cars.

I also made up a larger version for the cab so I can move that around a bit easier when prepping it for the new interior, wiring and other stuff planned.

I got the axle stripped down and plan to use an Eaton truetrac with 3.73 gears and strange axles with 5 x 4.75 pattern.

Some may have noticed the camper top in the early shots - this is now 2 foot too long :-). I plan to cut it down and have it removable - stored under the carport when I dont need it on the truck.

this now brings me up-to-date with trucky progress so posts will likely be more detailed, smalller jobs and certainly not twice a day :-)

[jmarkha1]

Off to the blasters today - as soon as its back it will be covered with epoxy primer and then I can start moving in the right direction finally. As soon as stuff starts to get painted it feels like you have come over the brow of the hill :-)

Without the use of a garage I will need to do the majority of the build under a carport - not ideal but excited to get the chassis back and start finally bolting stuff back on...

[Paul Y]

Don't think I would blast another chassis, good choice on farming it out!

P.

[jmarkha1]

Spent some time on the cab - made a dolly with big (gravel friendly) tyres so I can push the old thing around the drive to work on it more easily.

A few lengths of 3x3 and 2x2 - probably overkill but made it in 2 parts with a timber strut holding it true - it can be dissembled and stored somewhere afterwards or extended into a bed dolly - just thought of that :-)

The firewall had a lot of holes - some made with a gas spanner that had to go.

I am running a small aftermarket heater and blower that will be mounted in the cab so I removed all the heater setup and the holes were filled.

Before the cab goes for media blast I had to remove the tar-board insulation under the dash - horrible stuff to remove.

Also ground down some of the welds on the inside too so I don't have to do too much grinding once its in epoxy.

Fuel tank mount removal? - whats the consensus - trim and leave alone or remove them? - I have a bed mounted tank and would like to have the cab simple looking as possible and possibly a little more room for the seat. Was thinking remove the spot welds and add a couple of strengthening plates for he bed mounts to hang on to?

[jmarkha1]

I was planning on doing the blasting Paul but corona had other plans - had this damn long covid - just getting my strength back so enjoying smaller jobs and ramping up still. Looking forward to getting the frame back in epoxy and I can really steam ahead. hope that LS is running ...

Originally Posted by Paul Y

Don't think I would blast another chassis, good choice on farming it out!

P.