Chevy 350 OE Roller or Hydraulic Roller

[77ChevySharkBite]

What's up everyone, so I'm new to the Chevy world, I just purchased a 1977 Chevy 350 small block motor, how would I know is the motor is a OE Roller or Hydraulic Roller? I'm trying to find out if I'll have to have a custom cam made or if I'll be able to just buy it from a typical online store such as jegs.com or summitracing.com, so if anyone has insight on this please help me.

Thanks

[mopar346]

Welcome to the forum.

An OE roller is a hydraulic roller. Depending on the year of your engine/block it will determine what still cam you need as far as aftermarket roller or OE roller, both styles can be purchased in hydraulic or solid roller. Old style blocks are modified (in most cases to accept a roller but will still take the old style cam should you desire. The newer blocks are machined different for a factory roller/spider set up but I believe can still take an old non-roller style cam as well - not sure why anyone would do this though. I'm not sure if the OE and retro fitted roller cam/lifter set up are interchangeable or not Jeg/Summit should be able to answer that. So back to my original statement, what year block you have will determine what style cam you get.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Its the stock 1977 Chevy 350 Small Block, that's about all I know. The people I bought it from when they purchased it the block that was already in the truck was bad, but the block that was in the bed of the truck is the motor that is currently in it, and its a Small Block Chevy 350.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Here's the cam I want, its on jegs.com I'm attaching the link below.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/12-423-8/10002/-1

[mopar346]

Cam selection depends on many things, so without ALL the info no one can tell what is good or not for your application. One of the best things to do is use Comp cam's selector you can down load off the net but it requires you to put in accurate info to get a good answer.

Good luck.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Yeah, well I have a downloaded application at home on my laptop its a called Dyno 2000, and the link to the cam I showed you is what suits best with everything that I plan on doing to the truck.

Thanks for all the help I appreciate it.

[mopar346]

If it is a stock 77 block that has not been prepped for a roller set up then a roller set up wont work. I think there MAY BE a no prep roller out there for older blocks but I am not 100% sure.

[THE "10" SILVERADO]

If it is the original engine it will not have a roller cam but have a flat tappet style cam. The rollers came I believe in the early 90's.

[THE "10" SILVERADO]

Originally Posted by mopar346

If it is a stock 77 block that has not been prepped for a roller set up then a roller set up wont work. I think there MAY BE a no prep roller out there for older blocks but I am not 100% sure.

^ This. To make a non-roller engine work you would have to drill and tap (I think 3) holes to fit the roller spider cage.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Okay, other than needing all the specs and such, how would I be able to find out if its a non-roller or roller?

[mopar346]

Do a vision, you may be able to see it through a push rod hole if you know what you are looking for.

[mopar346]

Originally Posted by THE "10" SILVERADO

^ This. To make a non-roller engine work you would have to drill and tap (I think 3) holes to fit the roller spider cage.

I think you also have to machine some clearance on the cylinder side around the lifter bores as well. Or maybe that is on a small block Mopar, to many moving parts in my head.

[77ChevySharkBite]

well I'm kind of new to the mechanic would I've done some work but nothing heavy duty like I'm going to do on this. So I would have no idea what I would be looking for.

[THE "10" SILVERADO]

Originally Posted by 77ChevySharkBite

well I'm kind of new to the mechanic would I've done some work but nothing heavy duty like I'm going to do on this. So I would have no idea what I would be looking for.

Pull the intake off. If there is a metal cage looking thing you have a roller. if not a flat tappet.

[Firebirdjones]

If it is indeed a 77 block,,,,it won't accept an OEM roller setup (with spiders) because the block won't be cast in the lifter valley for it.

The blocks became OEM roller compatable when GM went to the 1 piece rear main seal. However they all didn't get rollers at first. Only the performance oriented vehicles starting in the mid 80's got OEM roller cams like the vettes, Irocs, Z28's, T/A's, GTA's etc...
The truck block of this era (mid 80's on up) had the provisions in the lifter valley for the spiders but never cam equipped with it.


On your older 2 piece rear main seal engine, you would need what is called a retrofit kit. Doesn't use the spider cage for the lifters,,,,the lifters have bars on them instead. Other than that everything else is pretty straight forward.

If you have a later style block with the lifter valley casting to accept the spider cage, then you could go that route, but you would still need the cage and the lifters to go with it. GM still sells this stuff but in the end,,,,if you need everything like that,,,it's really not any cheaper than just going with a retrofit roller kit.....up to you.

[mopar346]

To Firebird's point if you are gonna build an engine from scratch anyway, start with a later block, you can get them in 4 bolt mains AND it has the advantage of 1 peice rear main.

Firebird, I thought there was something about prepping the old blocks to take the late spider, maybe even welding or JB welding nuts in place to retain it. Or again am I confusing my lines?

[mrhino]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

If it is indeed a 77 block,,,,it won't accept an OEM roller setup (with spiders) because the block won't be cast in the lifter valley for it.

The blocks became OEM roller compatable when GM went to the 1 piece rear main seal. However they all didn't get rollers at first. Only the performance oriented vehicles starting in the mid 80's got OEM roller cams like the vettes, Irocs, Z28's, T/A's, GTA's etc...
The truck block of this era (mid 80's on up) had the provisions in the lifter valley for the spiders but never cam equipped with it.


On your older 2 piece rear main seal engine, you would need what is called a retrofit kit. Doesn't use the spider cage for the lifters,,,,the lifters have bars on them instead. Other than that everything else is pretty straight forward.

If you have a later style block with the lifter valley casting to accept the spider cage, then you could go that route, but you would still need the cage and the lifters to go with it. GM still sells this stuff but in the end,,,,if you need everything like that,,,it's really not any cheaper than just going with a retrofit roller kit.....up to you.

Everything he said is true. look for a roller cam that is designated for 55-86 sbc or "Retro-fit". roller cams are pretty affordable, however the lifters are not. you will want hydraulic roller lifters the ones that come two to a set with a bar joining them. should need no machine work.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by mrhino

Everything he said is true. look for a roller cam that is designated for 55-86 sbc or "Retro-fit". roller cams are pretty affordable, however the lifters are not. you will want hydraulic roller lifters the ones that come two to a set with a bar joining them. should need no machine work.

Not related, but I need to get with you sometime soon for one of those auto dimming mirrors that display the outside temperature. I meant to get in touch with you a while back and forgot.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Alright I appreciate the help, I'm not worried about everything else, I just mainly need to know about the flat tappet, and roller because I'm going to be replacing the valves and all the motor components. So it looks like I know what I'll be doing this weekend then.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by mopar346

Firebird, I thought there was something about prepping the old blocks to take the late spider, maybe even welding or JB welding nuts in place to retain it. Or again am I confusing my lines?

Good question. It seems I've heard that it's possible to modify the early blocks before. I can't confirm though, I've never done that. It was always retrofit kits for me and others.

[Corts60]

Originally Posted by 77ChevySharkBite

Alright I appreciate the help, I'm not worried about everything else, I just mainly need to know about the flat tappet, and roller because I'm going to be replacing the valves and all the motor components. So it looks like I know what I'll be doing this weekend then.

So what are your plans with this engine and what components are you replacing and why? You say you're not that mechanical so if I were you, I would get more advice before you just start replacing parts. You may end up ahead of yourself. When you start replacing camshafts with high lift you have to have the know how about things like valve to piston clearance measurements and the like.

Tell us more about what the engine is right now, is it bone stock with a q-jet carb? Tell us what your plans are for HP output and what parts you think you need to replace to achieve that ideal. Dyno 2000 is a nice program but it is not always realistic for every application. We could save you lots of money if you give us more info and keep asking questions. Good luck.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Originally Posted by Corts60

So what are your plans with this engine and what components are you replacing and why? You say you're not that mechanical so if I were you, I would get more advice before you just start replacing parts. You may end up ahead of yourself. When you start replacing camshafts with high lift you have to have the know how about things like valve to piston clearance measurements and the like.

Tell us more about what the engine is right now, is it bone stock with a q-jet carb? Tell us what your plans are for HP output and what parts you think you need to replace to achieve that ideal. Dyno 2000 is a nice program but it is not always realistic for every application. We could save you lots of money if you give us more info and keep asking questions. Good luck.

Okay my plans for the truck are to be more a show truck but have the HP to smoke the tires and race it if I choose that too. It's not that I'm not mechanical, its just I don't have a lot of under the hood time.

The motor is bone stock, the owners before me weren't able to do anything other than rebuild the motor, and they kept all the stock components, my goal for HP is 400. The plans for the motor is to put a different Cam, Headers, Heads, and down the line pistons. Thankfully I have a friend that has a Chevy 350 as well to help me if need be, and I have a co-worker that has a vette that has a lot of work done to it, I know its a different vehicle but he knows a lot about cars so I talk with them and ask questions about it. Is that enough or do I need to give you more detail?

[king-918]

I got tired of reading so this may be redundent but DO NOT use roller lifters on a non-roller block. You will starve for oil and destroy the block, lifters and cam. DO buy a retro kit like from lunati it will com with retrollifters and cam. You will need a cam button and melonized gear for your dist. May have forgot other stuff button im at the gym now

[mrhino]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Not related, but I need to get with you sometime soon for one of those auto dimming mirrors that display the outside temperature. I meant to get in touch with you a while back and forgot.

no problem I have plenty just let me know what your wanting specifically.

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Good question. It seems I've heard that it's possible to modify the early blocks before. I can't confirm though, I've never done that. It was always retrofit kits for me and others.

You can not modifi the blocks to run a oem roller. I shouldnt say u cant it would be way to much work and money.

Originally Posted by 77ChevySharkBite

Okay my plans for the truck are to be more a show truck but have the HP to smoke the tires and race it if I choose that too. It's not that I'm not mechanical, its just I don't have a lot of under the hood time.

The motor is bone stock, the owners before me weren't able to do anything other than rebuild the motor, and they kept all the stock components, my goal for HP is 400. The plans for the motor is to put a different Cam, Headers, Heads, and down the line pistons. Thankfully I have a friend that has a Chevy 350 as well to help me if need be, and I have a co-worker that has a vette that has a lot of work done to it, I know its a different vehicle but he knows a lot about cars so I talk with them and ask questions about it. Is that enough or do I need to give you more detail?

you can do 400hp with a flat tappet cam in that 77' block. but your gonna need a good set of heads and the right camshaft choice. among other things, and you will with a roller cam as well. If you have your heart set on a roller, your better off ditching that old block and find a 87 and up blocks. even engines without roller cams have the provisions to and a oem roller. some would argue but new blocks are better anyway. one piece main seal and centerbolt valve covers are less likely to leak,

[77ChevySharkBite]

Originally Posted by mrhino

no problem I have plenty just let me know what your wanting specifically.



You can not modifi the blocks to run a oem roller. I shouldnt say u cant it would be way to much work and money.



you can do 400hp with a flat tappet cam in that 77' block. but your gonna need a good set of heads and the right camshaft choice. among other things, and you will with a roller cam as well. If you have your heart set on a roller, your better off ditching that old block and find a 87 and up blocks. even engines without roller cams have the provisions to and a oem roller. some would argue but new blocks are better anyway. one piece main seal and centerbolt valve covers are less likely to leak,

Yeah I understand, I appreciate the help. I'm going to need help along the way and I definitely am not afraid to ask questions that's for sure. I'm honestly trying to keep the motor that's in the truck right now, I understand that I'll need A LOT of things to help get what I want, but as well I know it can be done. I'm personally kind of set of keeping it flat tappet. Thank you for all the help.

Thanks for all the help guys I will be keeping everyone updated as I do certain things I also created my own thread for my project build, if you guys want to follow and see my progress, but I'm for sure going to be asking for help I'm sure.