Desktop Dyno Question - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

wlee · 12-02-2002, 02:46 PM

Could someone with Desktop Dyno please run this engine & give me an idea of it's horsepower? Thanks - Lee

1974 Small Block Chevrolet 350 C.I.D., 4 bolt main, cast #3970010, stamp #VO415TJB that’s been professionally re-manufactured.

Cylinders bored .020

Clevite .010 main bearings and .020 rod bearings.

New flat top .020 pistons, original rods tested & reused.

64cc double hump 327 Feulie heads, cast #3917291, 1.94 intakes and 1.5 exhaust valves
Triple ground with new brass guides, Z-28 springs and new valves magnafluxed & milled giving a 10.3 compression ratio.

Clevite 229-1713 Hydraulic lash performance camshaft with an advertised duration of 306 intake and exhaust, duration at .050, lift is 222, Valve lift is .447, cam lift is .298, lobe spread is 114

New Johnson HT 817R lifters

Black Moly Push Rods

Black Moly roller rockers 1.5 intake / 1.6 exhaust

Black moly push rod guide plates.

Melling M-55A high velocity Z-28 Oil pump

Melling Distributor drive shaft.

Cloyes double roller timing chain and gears

New Holley 650 CFM electric choke Quadrajet

GM Polished aluminum manifold, GM ID#458520.

New HEI ignition custom tailored for maximum performance.

VDOG · 12-02-2002, 07:45 PM

Not being able to use all the info you gave, I have you roughly at 375hp and 415TQ.
I added in headers and mufflers, manifold.
Might be a lil bit higher. Im new at using this program.

bigjimzlll · 12-02-2002, 07:54 PM

through headers with exhaust with 186 heads(same as 291s) max hp@5000rpm is 311 max torque@4500 is 346..the same engine with a xe274 comp cam maxHp@5000is 326 and max torque@4000 is 376..that cam is not very good..I would seriously think about another grind..if you use the xe cam with vortec heads you get this..HP@5500 is 372..torque is 389 at 4500

VDOG · 12-02-2002, 07:59 PM

Ok BigJim, help me out. Where did I go wrong in my calculations?

bigjimzlll · 12-02-2002, 08:32 PM

the 2 biggest areas of mistakes are with the head and cam numbers..do you have cam and head files? if not let me know. if you use the heads dd2000 has on the pop-up you get way high results..actual head flow numbers are available..and on the cam, you have to go into the cam math page(its on top and looks like a cam) and put in the duration and lobe seperation numbers..I have found by trial and error, by my own real motor numbers, that it is possable to get close..when I first did my dd2000 on my motor I came up with 400 hp and 400ftlbs of torque..in reality it has 325 hp and 375 torque..but thats real numbers...its actually quite hard to build a 400hp(true HP) small block..well not hard, but expensive
Jim

VDOG · 12-03-2002, 06:47 PM

I see. No I do not have cam and head files.
Also what is the difference between Wedge Canted and low performance heads? Would one of these be considered Vortec heads?

bigjimzlll · 12-03-2002, 07:56 PM

nope...those heads flow way more than almost any head on the market...ill try to find the links for free cam files and head flows...its a must...

bigjimzlll · 12-03-2002, 08:02 PM

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm heres some numbers
some more http://www.prestage.com/carmath/DesktopDyno.asp
the prestage one is great..it will set you right up with all the info for dd2000 you need

wlee · 12-05-2002, 01:32 PM

Thanks bigjimzlll - The info was a big help! No one seems to be interested in giving my engine a new home . . . it's been on Ebay this week and hasn't even gotten a bid - my opening bid is $1500 - you'd think it would be worth that, considering I'm including a 12 month warranty

jmil1974 · 12-05-2002, 03:10 PM

wlee,

IMHO your engine is certainly worth 1500-2000 to an individual, even without a warranty. The problem with ebay is that you have to start your opening much lower and take the risk of a loss. Usually the seller gets a fair price, usually. If I were you I'd start the opening bid at a penny with a 1500 reserve. Or you could do a no reserve auction starting at a 1000. You gotta get folks in the game first, then the rush of bidding will grab most of them.

Maybe spend 75-100 for a dyno run? Things like that (and your nice pics) really add perceived value to an online auction.

Good luck!

wlee · 12-05-2002, 03:37 PM

thanks jmil1974 - part of the problem is this week's competition. there are several 350's up for auction, and a couple of them are probably as nice as mine - but they aren't getting bids either, or at least no SERIOUS bids. Ebay is likey not the best venue for an engine, considering the shipping costs for an out of state buyer, and the warranty might scare off some people, since an out of state buyer would have do do some leg-work to collect if a part goes bad, although in 20 plus years of building engines, I've never had one come back for a warranty repair.

The only engine that ever came back to me was a 350 I built for a guy's 1975 Surburban way back in 1982 . . . the engine came back to me in 1995 because the 'Burb rusted out around it

the guy gave me the engine - he said I should have it since it was built so well it outlasted the truck! I stuck it in the Longhorn, and it's still running today - although the valve guides are letting a bunch of oil get through them & it smokes pretty bad at start-up . . . after it warms up the smoking stops. Not bad, eh? A valve job would probably give me another decade of use:p

jmil1974 · 12-05-2002, 04:28 PM

wlee . . . nice!!

I didn't get the full idea of how long you'd been doing engines, or even that you had a shop of your own. Maybe establishing your history a bit in the listing would help? My ebay access has been sporadic so you may have done that and I just missed the actual auction. Like you said, it may also just be competition. Offer the warranty in writing (if you don't already). From my moderate ebay experience, the thing that big ticket buyers look for most on ebay is credibilty, usually in the form of feedback. It's also nice to see an actual storefront, employees, years in business, etc. Maybe even the story you just told us!? You probably know most of this already but it just seems like quite a nice deal on that motor. I think if, like jimzmill said, you swapped that cam AND did a dyno run - now you have:

high performance AND reliability
proven HP/TQ #s
20 yrs exp.
established, brick-n-mortar shop
12 month warranty
lotsa good feedback
only 1 engine return ever

All that together makes a pretty compelling pitch, esp. if you can ease the shipping issue somehow. Just make sure it's ALL in the auction ad/listing. Again, I may have missed the ad completely and repeated a bunch of stuff you're already doing. I originally asked about numbers because I just installed an engine in my truck and wanted to see how I came out, money-wise. I hope some of these suggestions are useful to you.

wlee · 12-05-2002, 04:47 PM

jmil1974 - I don't want to mis-lead anyone here . . . yes, I am a college trained technician, but haven't run a legitimate auto business for many years. I build engines primarily for myself & close friends . . . not exactly for hire. My profession for the past 5 years has been in the financial industry - before that I spent a couple of decades working in the television and music industry as a producer. I still have a complete shop with lots of cool tools, and like to play mechanic in my spare time, but wouldn't feel right presenting myself as a pro-shop. I don't have a problem backing my work with a warranty, but don't want anyone to think they are dealing with a business - like my profile says "just an old Mr. Goodwrench"

Lee

wlee · 12-05-2002, 05:06 PM

Here's the auction link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...874013716&rd=1

BTW: for those of you trying to do the math - I'm a "High Mileage" 46 year old

12-02-2002, 02:46 PM	#1
wlee Just an Old Mr Goodwrench Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Green Ridge, MO USA Posts: 259	Desktop Dyno Question Could someone with Desktop Dyno please run this engine & give me an idea of it's horsepower? Thanks - Lee 1974 Small Block Chevrolet 350 C.I.D., 4 bolt main, cast #3970010, stamp #VO415TJB that’s been professionally re-manufactured. Cylinders bored .020 Clevite .010 main bearings and .020 rod bearings. New flat top .020 pistons, original rods tested & reused. 64cc double hump 327 Feulie heads, cast #3917291, 1.94 intakes and 1.5 exhaust valves Triple ground with new brass guides, Z-28 springs and new valves magnafluxed & milled giving a 10.3 compression ratio. Clevite 229-1713 Hydraulic lash performance camshaft with an advertised duration of 306 intake and exhaust, duration at .050, lift is 222, Valve lift is .447, cam lift is .298, lobe spread is 114 New Johnson HT 817R lifters Black Moly Push Rods Black Moly roller rockers 1.5 intake / 1.6 exhaust Black moly push rod guide plates. Melling M-55A high velocity Z-28 Oil pump Melling Distributor drive shaft. Cloyes double roller timing chain and gears New Holley 650 CFM electric choke Quadrajet GM Polished aluminum manifold, GM ID#458520. New HEI ignition custom tailored for maximum performance. Attached Images __________________ 1969 CST 20 Longhorn 1970 CST 20 Fleetside 1991 Jaguar Sovereign 1992 Mazda Miata

12-02-2002, 08:32 PM	#5
bigjimzlll Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding,CA...USA Posts: 4,736	the 2 biggest areas of mistakes are with the head and cam numbers..do you have cam and head files? if not let me know. if you use the heads dd2000 has on the pop-up you get way high results..actual head flow numbers are available..and on the cam, you have to go into the cam math page(its on top and looks like a cam) and put in the duration and lobe seperation numbers..I have found by trial and error, by my own real motor numbers, that it is possable to get close..when I first did my dd2000 on my motor I came up with 400 hp and 400ftlbs of torque..in reality it has 325 hp and 375 torque..but thats real numbers...its actually quite hard to build a 400hp(true HP) small block..well not hard, but expensive Jim __________________ It's called "drag racing" if they called it "tic..tic..WHAM!..BANG! F*&K!!!", they'd have to keep the magazines under the counter with the other men's publications click the clicky to join the site.... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/payments.php 67 lwb..first hotrod in 25 years..540 best ET is 9.45 @ 141.44 Anderson,CA

12-03-2002, 07:56 PM	#7
bigjimzlll Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding,CA...USA Posts: 4,736	nope...those heads flow way more than almost any head on the market...ill try to find the links for free cam files and head flows...its a must... __________________ It's called "drag racing" if they called it "tic..tic..WHAM!..BANG! F*&K!!!", they'd have to keep the magazines under the counter with the other men's publications click the clicky to join the site.... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/payments.php 67 lwb..first hotrod in 25 years..540 best ET is 9.45 @ 141.44 Anderson,CA

12-03-2002, 08:02 PM	#8
bigjimzlll Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding,CA...USA Posts: 4,736	http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm heres some numbers some more http://www.prestage.com/carmath/DesktopDyno.asp the prestage one is great..it will set you right up with all the info for dd2000 you need __________________ It's called "drag racing" if they called it "tic..tic..WHAM!..BANG! F&K!!!", they'd have to keep the magazines under the counter with the other men's publications click the clicky to join the site.... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/payments.php 67 lwb..first hotrod in 25 years..540 best ET is 9.45 @ 141.44 Anderson,CA Last edited by bigjimzlll; 12-03-2002 at 08:05 PM.*

12-05-2002, 01:32 PM	#9
wlee Just an Old Mr Goodwrench Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Green Ridge, MO USA Posts: 259	Thanks bigjimzlll - The info was a big help! No one seems to be interested in giving my engine a new home . . . it's been on Ebay this week and hasn't even gotten a bid - my opening bid is $1500 - you'd think it would be worth that, considering I'm including a 12 month warranty __________________ 1969 CST 20 Longhorn 1970 CST 20 Fleetside 1991 Jaguar Sovereign 1992 Mazda Miata

12-02-2002, 07:45 PM	#2
VDOG Grand PooBaa Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,302	Not being able to use all the info you gave, I have you roughly at 375hp and 415TQ. I added in headers and mufflers, manifold. Might be a lil bit higher. Im new at using this program.

12-02-2002, 07:54 PM	#3
bigjimzlll Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding,CA...USA Posts: 4,736	through headers with exhaust with 186 heads(same as 291s) max hp@5000rpm is 311 max torque@4500 is 346..the same engine with a xe274 comp cam maxHp@5000is 326 and max torque@4000 is 376..that cam is not very good..I would seriously think about another grind..if you use the xe cam with vortec heads you get this..HP@5500 is 372..torque is 389 at 4500 __________________ It's called "drag racing" if they called it "tic..tic..WHAM!..BANG! F&K!!!", they'd have to keep the magazines under the counter with the other men's publications click the clicky to join the site.... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/payments.php 67 lwb..first hotrod in 25 years..540 best ET is 9.45 @ 141.44 Anderson,CA Last edited by bigjimzlll; 12-02-2002 at 07:57 PM.*

12-02-2002, 07:59 PM	#4
VDOG Grand PooBaa Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,302	Ok BigJim, help me out. Where did I go wrong in my calculations?

12-03-2002, 06:47 PM	#6
VDOG Grand PooBaa Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,302	I see. No I do not have cam and head files. Also what is the difference between Wedge Canted and low performance heads? Would one of these be considered Vortec heads?

12-05-2002, 03:10 PM	#10
jmil1974 Ain't we cute? Join Date: May 2002 Location: Friendswood, TX Posts: 700	wlee, IMHO your engine is certainly worth 1500-2000 to an individual, even without a warranty. The problem with ebay is that you have to start your opening much lower and take the risk of a loss. Usually the seller gets a fair price, usually. If I were you I'd start the opening bid at a penny with a 1500 reserve. Or you could do a no reserve auction starting at a 1000. You gotta get folks in the game first, then the rush of bidding will grab most of them. Maybe spend 75-100 for a dyno run? Things like that (and your nice pics) really add perceived value to an online auction. Good luck! __________________ 69 C10 2WD LWB Fleet 350/350 power front disc conversion (6 lug disc kit from gmcpauls) and new engine, PS, A/C, fresh fluids, SHE DRIVES! FOR SALE $3900

12-05-2002, 03:37 PM	#11
wlee Just an Old Mr Goodwrench Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Green Ridge, MO USA Posts: 259	thanks jmil1974 - part of the problem is this week's competition. there are several 350's up for auction, and a couple of them are probably as nice as mine - but they aren't getting bids either, or at least no SERIOUS bids. Ebay is likey not the best venue for an engine, considering the shipping costs for an out of state buyer, and the warranty might scare off some people, since an out of state buyer would have do do some leg-work to collect if a part goes bad, although in 20 plus years of building engines, I've never had one come back for a warranty repair. The only engine that ever came back to me was a 350 I built for a guy's 1975 Surburban way back in 1982 . . . the engine came back to me in 1995 because the 'Burb rusted out around it the guy gave me the engine - he said I should have it since it was built so well it outlasted the truck! I stuck it in the Longhorn, and it's still running today - although the valve guides are letting a bunch of oil get through them & it smokes pretty bad at start-up . . . after it warms up the smoking stops. Not bad, eh? A valve job would probably give me another decade of use:p __________________ 1969 CST 20 Longhorn 1970 CST 20 Fleetside 1991 Jaguar Sovereign 1992 Mazda Miata

12-05-2002, 04:28 PM	#12
jmil1974 Ain't we cute? Join Date: May 2002 Location: Friendswood, TX Posts: 700	wlee . . . nice!! I didn't get the full idea of how long you'd been doing engines, or even that you had a shop of your own. Maybe establishing your history a bit in the listing would help? My ebay access has been sporadic so you may have done that and I just missed the actual auction. Like you said, it may also just be competition. Offer the warranty in writing (if you don't already). From my moderate ebay experience, the thing that big ticket buyers look for most on ebay is credibilty, usually in the form of feedback. It's also nice to see an actual storefront, employees, years in business, etc. Maybe even the story you just told us!? You probably know most of this already but it just seems like quite a nice deal on that motor. I think if, like jimzmill said, you swapped that cam AND did a dyno run - now you have: high performance AND reliability proven HP/TQ #s 20 yrs exp. established, brick-n-mortar shop 12 month warranty lotsa good feedback only 1 engine return ever All that together makes a pretty compelling pitch, esp. if you can ease the shipping issue somehow. Just make sure it's ALL in the auction ad/listing. Again, I may have missed the ad completely and repeated a bunch of stuff you're already doing. I originally asked about numbers because I just installed an engine in my truck and wanted to see how I came out, money-wise. I hope some of these suggestions are useful to you. __________________ 69 C10 2WD LWB Fleet 350/350 power front disc conversion (6 lug disc kit from gmcpauls) and new engine, PS, A/C, fresh fluids, SHE DRIVES! FOR SALE $3900

12-05-2002, 04:47 PM	#13
wlee Just an Old Mr Goodwrench Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Green Ridge, MO USA Posts: 259	jmil1974 - I don't want to mis-lead anyone here . . . yes, I am a college trained technician, but haven't run a legitimate auto business for many years. I build engines primarily for myself & close friends . . . not exactly for hire. My profession for the past 5 years has been in the financial industry - before that I spent a couple of decades working in the television and music industry as a producer. I still have a complete shop with lots of cool tools, and like to play mechanic in my spare time, but wouldn't feel right presenting myself as a pro-shop. I don't have a problem backing my work with a warranty, but don't want anyone to think they are dealing with a business - like my profile says "just an old Mr. Goodwrench" Lee __________________ 1969 CST 20 Longhorn 1970 CST 20 Fleetside 1991 Jaguar Sovereign 1992 Mazda Miata

12-05-2002, 05:06 PM	#14
wlee Just an Old Mr Goodwrench Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Green Ridge, MO USA Posts: 259	Here's the auction link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...874013716&rd=1 BTW: for those of you trying to do the math - I'm a "High Mileage" 46 year old __________________ 1969 CST 20 Longhorn 1970 CST 20 Fleetside 1991 Jaguar Sovereign 1992 Mazda Miata



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