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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
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First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Was tired of the mushy brake pedal. Wife won't even drive it (could be a good thing) it's so bad. Had mentioned that Jeg's has the SSBC 2 piston drop-in calipers on sale. One response was to change the Master Cylinder to the New Body Style.
So I got curious and started researching the change over. Well let's just say it's miraculous. What a difference. I found a post on another website dated July 2012 that got me going and I added some information to what they put together. I would like to throw out this information for anyone out there that is interested in getting rid of the mushy pedal on the cheap. Hopefully they will find it if they are google searching. The Old Body Style (1988-1999) Chevy/GMC trucks have the most awful brake pedal feel (and grip) of just about anything I've driven. But over the many years I've had it, I got used to it. Killed me when I drove my wife's cars over the years. Being used to this crap and go to stop in her vehicles nearly puts me through the windshield for the first few stops. Got bored yesterday and found and installed the new MC. This is also referred to as the GMT400 to GMT800 MC swap. The vacuum booster remains behind. There are 2 things you need. The replacement MC and one brake line adapter. Fluid of course. The new master cylinder part number is as follows if you don't get one from a junk yard. The guy I copied used a 2002 Tahoe for search purposes. I added a few manufacturers to the list. NBS Master Cylinder numbers: GM 19209249 Durastop 18M1159 made by AC Delco AC Delco 174-1003 NAPA NMC M3432 Cardone 13-2881 Dorman M630031 Fenco NM3089 The lines on the vehicle are 2 different sizes. It has a 9/16-18 at the port located nearest the radiator and 1/2-20 at the rear port closest to the firewall. The new MC is the same 1/2-20 at both ports. So an adapter is needed to allow the 9/16 flared fitting on the vehicle fit the 1/2-20 port on the front of the new MC. I found the AGS #BLF-26C adapter easier than the others which are also the Edelman #258306 or the Weatherhead #7912 Now here's the new thing I learned about bench bleeding. Over the years we have all encountered some MC's that needed bench bleeding and some that did not. Some would even warn not to bench bleed it. Referring to the method of connecting hoses to the ports and looping them around to the reservoir and the ends are in the fluid. Pumping the piston until the bobbles were gone. With the Cardone unit I purchased, it did NOT have the bleeder kit and the instructions said to simply fill it up and let it sit until the ports start to drip fluid. The instructions said any MC (I assumed they meant that they sell) that does not have the bleeder kit with it, to do it this way. So I throw out there that bench bleeding is not always looping the fluid back to the reservoir with tubing. Keep that in mind. So I connected the tubing to the new MC then bolted it to the booster since the lines are in a different location then the new MC ports. Bled it and viola what a difference. Bleeding can be very easy if you use a clear catch bottle and be sure the tubing attached to the bleeder is submerged into the drain fluid while you have the bleeder loose. Just wait for the new (clear) fluid to appear and your done with that wheel. I have used the one man vacuum attachment to draw fluid and it stinks cause it always draws air from around the bleeder screw. Incidentally most brake manufacturers state the best way to bleed them is just let it ooze out the bleeder on it's own. But I'm in a hurry and just get someone to pump it till the clear fluid appears in the catch bottle. Of course if bubbles are there, we keep going till they're gone. One thing I think I feel is while the brakes grab when the pedal is depressed a much shorter distance than before. They still seem to require the same amount of hard pressure. I'll have to see what happens in the next few days. I hope this information helps anyone searching on google etc... for one method of making our cheesy brakes better. |
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#2 | |
"Oh well, it's a driver."
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 3,467
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Good info as always Speedy. Thanks, this definitely makes me want to try this! I've gotten used to it, but if I let somebody else drive my truck, they always remark on how weak the brakes feel.
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- JB - '93 C1500 SHORT/FLEET SILVERADO, 350/4L60E ![]() Quote:
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Best $75 I ever spent on this truck. I went from researching the swap at 11 am to done by 3 pm and had to go to 2 different stores to get the MC at one and the adapter at the other.
I highly rec this change. I want the wife to try it and see what she thinks. I don't recommend the junk yard for this purchase. The new ones are cheap enough. Next for me is slotted rotors and 2 piston calipers. AND the proper bedding procedure. That to me is paramount. |
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#4 |
Countdown Survivor
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bean Station, East Tennessee
Posts: 9,676
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Thanks Speedy, for writing the definitive guide on this swap. I just checked Rock auto and got a couple questions. I looked up a MC for a 2000 GMC Yukon, 5.7. They don't show the same Cardone part number you have, and they list 2 different Cardone MC's, one for the Police Package, one without. What would you suggest ordering? I first tried a sitewide search for the Cardone # you posted, it came back "no matches found." Do you think the police package one would fit and be a good choice? Here's a link
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93 Yukon 89 Silverado Z71 SWB Sport 91 K 2500 Silverado "Lobuk-Worktruk" A MAN OF HONOR DOES NOT LIE, CHEAT, OR STEAL, NOR TOLERATE THOSE WHO DO. Gettin' old ain't for sissies. |
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#5 |
driving is in my blood
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 5,726
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Police package is most likely a hydroboost unit
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-78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me. |
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#6 | |
"Oh well, it's a driver."
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 3,467
|
Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
TNZ: If a 2000 Yukon had a 5.7, it would have been old body style. There were still some built that year, I think. (Although I think they would have all been Denalis; I think only Tahoes got the Z56 police pkg.) Bottom line: Anything in the new body style would be 4.8 or 5.3.
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- JB - '93 C1500 SHORT/FLEET SILVERADO, 350/4L60E ![]() Quote:
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#7 |
Countdown Survivor
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bean Station, East Tennessee
Posts: 9,676
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Thanks guys, I didn't think of that. I'll check for a 2002 or something. Thanks again!
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93 Yukon 89 Silverado Z71 SWB Sport 91 K 2500 Silverado "Lobuk-Worktruk" A MAN OF HONOR DOES NOT LIE, CHEAT, OR STEAL, NOR TOLERATE THOSE WHO DO. Gettin' old ain't for sissies. |
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#8 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
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Might have left out a piece of information
I neglected to say that this change is for non-hydroboosted vehicles. Any old body styles will benefit from the numbers I provided.
The pickups were old body combined with new body style in 99 (made both body styles). The SUVs went on later after that. But as stated above, anything with the old Vortec 5.7L were old body style. When looking for NBS, stick with the 2002 Tahoe or later. |
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#9 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,200
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Thanks for posting; I've hated the brake pedal feel in my '97 Suburban ever since I got it.
I'll take a shot at this as soon as I get home from vacation. Subscribing - K
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Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ |
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: tr.nj.us
Posts: 52
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Thanks for the part numbers... I have this planned on my 93 later this year.
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#11 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Just wanted to clarify for those not sure what we are referring to.
If you have one of these: crappy master cylinder replace it with one listed above that looks like this good replacement |
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#12 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: May 2006
Location: Yucaipa, Calif.
Posts: 786
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Judging by the pics you've posted on #11 it looks to me like the NBS master cyl. is a larger diameter which will push more fluid. My braking is already improved by a rear disk conversion, but this NBS master cyl. may improve on that.
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1989 K1500 Chev. EC Original owner; some of the aftermarket parts I've installed are Borla headers, Hypertech chip, Edelbrock water pump, and a Stillen rear disc brake conversion kit. 2009 Hummer H3T 3.7L 5M (sold) 1997 K2500 Chev. EC 7.4L/ 4L80E 2018 Dodge Ram 2500 HD R/C |
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#13 |
driving is in my blood
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 5,726
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Exactly the opposite. NBS is smaller piston. Nothing from GM was bigger then the OBS master.
__________________
-78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me. |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: St.Andrews,Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 276
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
My buddys 93 has this one already so I don't get it. Maybe somebody changed it before he got it !!!
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#15 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 702
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Hum, I may try this out cause I am tired of the crappy pedal feel. Even after replacing just about everything I never thought of trying this.
Thanks for organizing the info in one place Speedy.
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82 Chevy SWB "OrangeAnimal" Lot of Goodies! Sold 93 GMC 1500 "Angry Red" 383 TBI Powered Fun! 300hp/410ft.lbs. 09 Yaris wife's daily. |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
I guarantee there is no way to get a better pedal feeling than this $75 job. Front calipers, rear caliper change over, none of them will beat this simple change.
Incidentally, Advance Auto gives you a discount if you place the order on line and pick up the part at the store. I got $10 off the Cardone MC that was in stock at my local store. My wife hated driving it, said it scared her if she had to do a panic stop. Not any more. She loves it. |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,200
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Just popping back in to say I did the brake cylinder swap - and I love it.
Took about 4 minutes to do, once I had everything on hand and ready to go. Bench bleed the m/c via gravity bleed, as recommended here and by the supplier. Slammed it on the truck and bled the system and took if for a drive. Night and day difference. My truck needed friction material front and rear, so I replaced that and adjusted the rears up while I was at it. Should be good for a long time now. What I would like to attack next is the steering on my truck (over boosted, poor on center feel, no returnability). I'll be starting a separate thread for that, looking for a similar amount of success. Be on the lookout for that new thread if you are interested or have suggestions. K
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Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ |
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#18 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Meridian, ID
Posts: 12
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
I did this today! Had uneven front pad wear due to a bad front, left caliper and was the perfect chance to do this while I was at it. Thanks Speedy for the write up process with part #'s. Made finding the right parts so much easier. Definitely feel the pedal difference but like you still have to press hard. Might bleed again just to be sure but really impressed with this mod.
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1995 Chevrolet Silverado K2500, 5.7, 4L60E, 373, 155k. TBI Chip, K&N air filter, NBS MC mod. |
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: .
Posts: 2,186
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Does anybody know what master cyl. to use on a hydroboost truck? I would love to do something like this on my 99.
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#20 |
driving is in my blood
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 5,726
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
If you have hydroboost then there is nothing to be done, you already have as firm a brake pedal as you can get. If people do this MC swap and still don't like the feel then hydroboost is the last option to try, and your already there.
__________________
-78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me. |
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#21 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
|
Added the cherry on top
couldn't resist. These were bought on a steal from Summit. I couldn't resist. With the slotted rotors. Hot damn.
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: melbourne, victoria
Posts: 145
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
found this on the summit website
looks like SSBC might read this forum too. lol http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ss...mc/model/c1500
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1988 GMC c1500 SWB D/D RHD 5.7L 700R4 |
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#23 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,200
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Quote:
I think I paid around $70 for mine. K
__________________
Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ |
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#24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,501
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
Screw SSBC for $220 I got mine at Advance for $75. Don't forget, if you pay online then pick up the item at the store, you save. I saved $10 on my MC.
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#25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ladysmith BC
Posts: 80
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Re: First hand experience with changing to the NBS master cylinder WOW!
I did some searching and the new cylinder is 1.8" and the original is 1.6" so you'll have to bore out the .2" on hydro boosted trucks. Some guys have said they did it them selfs but I'm going to buy a new hydro boost and get the machine ship to bore it out for me.
I ha a leaky slave cylinder and my pedal went dead changed it and then just yesterday I had zero pedal again and was standing on the brakes when I pulled into my house, luckily I just rubbed the wheel against the retaining wall rather than through my carport. My brake fluid is really dirty, I heard that was because the MC seals were rotten. I'm pretty excited to have a firm pedal again Posted via Mobile Device |
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Tags |
1988-1999, brakes, mushy, obs |
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