AArrgghhh...trouble with Yeller

[bigblock73]

OK folks, haven't posted here much lately, mainly because I am sick and tired at the moment with my truck.

Here are the two problems I have encountered as of late...

According to everyone I have talked to and everything I have read, when swapping out a SB for a BB you do NOT need to change out your engine stands or mounts. So taking that advice, I put the 454 in using the existing small block mounts and plates and everything bolted up perfectly and appeared to be fine. Just recently, after putting the cab on the frame, I noticed I now only have maybe 1/2" of room between the top of the transmission and the transmission tunnel...looks and feels waaay too close for my personal belief. So after going back and forth with another member here, and after calling my local GM dealership, there are in fact different engine stands for the BB equipped trucks. I just recently purchased the stands used from the previously mentioned member and am now awaiting for them to arrive. I am hoping the stands will move the engine down a little in the frame and gain me some more clearance. Has anyone else ever heard of this or experienced the same situation before? I am hoping the new stands don't move the engine forward more (I am plenty good for clearance there), if it does, then I might have to pull the damn cab off and re-drill new holes in the frame for the trans cross member.

Here is my second dillema...

I purchased some used Hooker Super Comp headers off E-bay (got a helluva deal), part number 2841. I went to put these on to check clearances (because of the above mentioned problem), and it turns out the collectors hit the trans cross member and will ot allow me to bolt them up. They barely hit, but even if they did bolt up, the collectors would be directly in front of the cross member and would not allow me to run the rest of the exhaust! I checked online and there are no provisions or keynotes stating these will not fit for whatever reason, so I am stumped here as well. Any suggestions on this as well? If it helps, I switched from a th350 to a 700r4, and actually had to move the cross member back to bolt up the trans...not only that, but there is no way to mess that up (the location of the x-member)...it has to sit where it sits.


Sorry for the long rant, but I am frustrated and would love to hear any and all ideas you may have. Mike, I am starting to feel like you do with your disc brake dillema!

Thanks!

[Cole's 87]

Jeff, I feel your pain when I pulled my 454 from my 77 and put it into my 87 there was alot of little things that sent me over the edge. I have the hooker super comp headers, and did not run into that problem. I cant remember what my part # is but I will get you some pics and measurments from my truck if you want them. Let me know if there is anythig I can do to help.

[swervin ervin]

Hang in there buddy. I can relate to what you are feeling. It seems it always turns out for the best in the end, but dang, it sure it rough getting to the end. Sorry, I don't know about the motor mount problem you are having.

One thing is for sure, these damn trucks will drive you nuts sometimes. All I can say is it's good I gave up drinking years ago. It amazes me (and my wife) how I let my truck make me so mad. I simply can't stand it when things don't go as I have them planned.

Anyway, keep your head up. You'll get it figured out.

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by bigblock73

.... I am hoping the new stands don't move the engine forward more (I am plenty good for clearance there), if it does, then I might have to pull the damn cab off and re-drill new holes in the frame for the trans cross member.....

Jeff, why would you have to pull the cab to re-drill holes for the tranny X-member. We moved mine on my Blazer and did not have to remove the body. We even mounted it above the frame rails for better clearence....

[bigblock73]

Cole, I am not sure measurements would help, but maybe you can answer a few questions for me?

1. Did you use the "big block" engine plates?
2. Did you need to relocate your trans cross member?
3. How far from your trans cross member are the very end of your colectors?
4. What else did you have to change around


Mike, thanks for the motivational speech...I will hang in there, but sometimes I just want to throw in the towel.


Ken, I might be able to do it with the cab on, but it looks like it might be a pain in the but. Besides, I don't want to scratch the cab or anything either. I'll have to wait and see what the new mounts do. Also, you stated you moved the crossmember to the top of the frame rails...isn't that were thay are from the factory? Here is a older pic of the crossmember just sitting in place (w/o the end braces)...isn't this how it is supposed to sit in the frame from the factory?

[Cole's 87]

1st Yes I used the motor mounts & plates that were already on my engine. Untill tonight I really didnt think there was a difference.
2nd Since I was using the crossmember from my 77 it didnt line up on any of the bolt holes on my 87 so I made sure that the that the tail shaft was centered in the frame rails & that the crossmember was square. Drilled new holes in the frame.
3rd I will get the measurments tommorow its pouring outside right now

Me I would get the new motor mounts on the motor and put back in the frame being that it lowers the engine mabey it will help you on your collectors.

I do have one question? are you using a 700r4 crossmember or you using the one off your 350 because I beleive there is a diffrence. If there is I still have the one out of my 87 its yours if you need it. just pay for the ride.
Dont know if this helps. I will take some measurments on the headers and crossmember so you can compare.

Oh yea PLEASE do me a favor and get some tape and cover that intake manifold I sure would hate for something to get dropped in there.

[bigblock73]

Originally Posted by Cole's 87

I do have one question? are you using a 700r4 crossmember or you using the one off your 350 because I beleive there is a diffrence. If there is I still have the one out of my 87 its yours if you need it. just pay for the ride.
Dont know if this helps. I will take some measurments on the headers and crossmember so you can compare.

I am using the stock cross member...I do not think that is the problem. Once I had the engine/trans in place, all I had to do was drill a couple new holes in the frame...the trans bolted up perfectly to the cross member.

If anything, I should have more room since I had to slide the x-member back. I honestly do not think putting the new stands in will help...exhaust wise.

The engine mounts (not the stands) are all the same for V8's correct?

[Cole's 87]

Originally Posted by bigblock73

The engine mounts (not the stands) are all the same for V8's correct?

I meant plates not motor mounts sorry about that.

[ElGracho]

Jeff,

At some point, they significantly changed the transmission crossmember design in these trucks. The one in my 75 is probably like your 73. It has separate braces that unbolt on each side. All of my other trucks have a different design, one side is like the early style and the other side (drivers side) wraps around the outside of the frame and doesn't have the separate brace. I'd guess that the second newer style is what works with your headers.

-
Joe

[Cole's 87]

Jeff , After this moring I'm really scratching my head the distance from the crossmember to the collector flange or atleast where it used to be is around 13" soooo Here is a pic By the way after looking at my frame compared to yours I got

[swervin ervin]

Yeah, Jeff is making us all look bad with his clean as a pin frame. Every time I take a pic of mine, I get sick.

[Captkaos]

Have you pulled the motor/trans yet? Get me a pic from the rear if you can of your clearance issue. The motor/trans isn't going to move "that" much. Where exactly is you clearance problems? At the bell or at that transbody? I have done more of these swaps to BBC's than I care to number and never had a problem with clearance.

[87 STEPPER]

Originally Posted by Captkaos

The motor/trans isn't going to move "that" much. Where exactly is you clearance problems? At the bell or at that transbody?

I was thinking the same thing.....But you could allways use some solid mount's and a urathane trany mount and then you know it will never hit.

[bigblock73]

OK, here are some more pics.

As you can see, the front of the trans is OK, it is the entire body that, to me, is too close for comfort.

Tell me what you guys think.

Thanks.

[swervin ervin]

Jeff,

I'm not sure without looking at mine, but my 700R4 is pretty close to the body too. One thing I thought of. Did you get the body mounts figured out. I know you was asking about which one went on top.

How bout rubbing some grease on that thing. It's making me feel bad.

[87 STEPPER]

That's close for shure but i don't think it will be a problem but it could get a bit warm in the cab from the eng/trans heat.

Maybe the BB eng. stands will lower it and your prob. is solved

[swervin ervin]

I don't know if there is anything different between the two, but is this a 700R4 crossmember or the one for the TH350?

Just offering ideas.

[Cole's 87]

That looks just like the crossmember that came with my 77 with the 454/400 The cross member that came in my 87 with the 305/700r4 IS different

[bigblock73]

Mike, the body mounts are another problem, I am going to mount mine the opposite of the PST instructions...which is the opposite of how the GM mounts are supposed to mount...comparing my new PST mounts to my old rubber mounts confirmed this. The bad part about that, is that will put the body at the lowest position...which is where it is at right now (if my memory serves me correct).

I am going to mount the engine with the new mounts and see what that does first...and go from there.

I am however, still stumped on the headers not fitting. Even with the new stands, I don't see that curing the problem. I might have to go with regular Comp headers (I believe they are shorter in length) and sell my Super Comps.

Bruce, I hope you are right.

Mike, can you crawl under your truck and let me know what kind of clearance you have?

Thanks everyone, keep the ideas coming if you have any.

[swervin ervin]

Sure can. It's still on jack stands. I'll be back in a bit.

[swervin ervin]

Sorry I took so long. I was putting some stuff back on the Q-jet for the 79.

Anyway, I took a pic of how my tranny looks. It looks nothing like yours. It dirty as poop.

I checked how much room I have left between the hump and tranny. I venture a guess it's about 3/4" or less. I could barely get my fingers in there.

[Captkaos]

Originally Posted by bigblock73

OK, here are some more pics.

As you can see, the front of the trans is OK, it is the entire body that, to me, is too close for comfort.

Tell me what you guys think.

Thanks.

That looks resonably normal to me.... And in lieu of the body mounts being in the "low" position as you say you think it is in the pic, I would say it is normal. The engine mounts aren't going to gain you much clearance at the trans body though (in my opinion) That is determined by the trans mount where you are having problems (if I am interpreting your concern correclty) If the engine mounts posistion it 1" lower, you are only moving the front of the trans (bell) down and the rear at the mount won't move.

Just flipped to Mike's pic, and his looks the same as yours relatively (minus all the DIRT )

What issues are you having wiht the body mounts? Care to post a pic of that also? I have never had issues with the PST bushings, and that is all I have ever used....

[C-10volvo]

Originally Posted by swervin ervin

Sorry I took so long. I was putting some stuff back on the Q-jet for the 79.

Anyway, I took a pic of how my tranny looks. It looks nothing like yours. It dirty as poop.

I checked how much room I have left between the hump and tranny. I venture a guess it's about 3/4" or less. I could barely get my fingers in there.

agreed, i checked aswell on my 700r4. it is roughly 3/4"

[Captkaos]

Originally Posted by bigblock73

I am however, still stumped on the headers not fitting. Even with the new stands, I don't see that curing the problem. I might have to go with regular Comp headers (I believe they are shorter in length) and sell my Super Comps.

I have a possible solution for that since I wanted the exhaust higher that the frame I got these:


Of course they aren't full length, they are 3/4... I can "mock" them up in the frame and get you pics to check clearance issues if you want since we are both working on BBC '73's....

[bigblock73]

Chris, on the body mounts...

PST goofed in their instructions, it listed the same part numbers for all the body bushings, and their "graphics" on their instruction sheet were showing to install them the opposite of how the general installed them in my '73. I called PST and they fax'd me a new and updated set of instructions, but these were even less helpful...and the tech guy said to mount them the way the original pic showed. I will get some pics tomorrow night of the PST mounts along with the factory mounts for comparisons sake.

Mike and C-10 volvo...thank you both for checking your trucks, that makes me feel a little better.

Chris, if you would be so kind, I would like to see one of them mounted...pref the pass side. Also, where did you buy those (JBA's?), and ...gulp..how much were they.

Mike...a body off resto is only a few turns of the wrench away...it is that simple...honest.