C20 3/4 ton brake upgrade question

[neirfin]

I have a 1969 C20 with 4 wheel manual drum brakes. It does not stop on a dime, to put it mildly...

Question is, can I purchase a booster and bolt it up with a bracket, and keep the drum brakes? I need some help braking for sure, but don't feel like pumping out over $1k for disc brakes...

Is there anything else i would need to consider to do an upgrade, considering 4 wheel drum brakes, 3/4 ton, no power options prior to this upgrade?

TYIA!

[Willys_MB]

You can buy the front end off a 73-87 and some later years and it bolts right in and they have disc brakes already. That's my plan when I get around to it...

[Killer Bee]

have you inspected all four wheel ends to make sure they're all adjusted properly and making good shoe contact?

flushed and bleed the entire system? brake fluid is hygroscopic so needs to be replaced periodically.. not every year but more often than every 50 years..

does the master cylinder hold or does it slowly creep down?

I see a lot of folks converting and upgrading systems that would probably be sufficient if properly maintained..

my '65 C20 in all its farm years of road salt and manure will still lockup all four wheels..

as far as increasing your pedal effort, I'm sure there are kits for vac and hydro if you're truck has p/s..

good luck!

[neirfin]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

have you inspected all four wheel ends to make sure they're all adjusted properly and making good shoe contact?

flushed and bleed the entire system? brake fluid is hygroscopic so needs to be replaced periodically.. not every year but more often than every 50 years..

does the master cylinder hold or does it slowly creep down?

I see a lot of folks converting and upgrading systems that would probably be sufficient if properly maintained..

my '65 C20 in all its farm years of road salt and manure will still lockup all four wheels..

as far as increasing your pedal effort, I'm sure there are kits for vac and hydro if you're truck has p/s..

good luck!

OK i think you set me on the better path... It would be nice to upgrade the system but you are right, i should inspect and maintain the system as it sits... The answers are, No I haven't checked all four shoes/drums, and it likely needs new shoes and drums to be resurfaced, but it was adjusted in the last few years.... Yes it was bled completely in the last two years or so, and has held the fluid... but it would definitely be the starting point to replace the shoes and drums.

The truck does not have P/S, would that be a requirement for the vacuum needed for the booster? I was thinking there would be a place on the manifold that i could get vacuum from?

[Killer Bee]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

<snip>
as far as increasing your pedal effort, I'm sure there are kits for vac and hydro if you're truck has p/s..

good luck!

Originally Posted by neirfin

<snip>
The truck does not have P/S, would that be a requirement for the vacuum needed for the booster? I was thinking there would be a place on the manifold that i could get vacuum from?

my apologies for poorly wording that..

there are kits for vacuum booster installs that should work in your '69 C20 with all drums.. as long as the engine isn't cammed out of wack, stock engine vacuum should operate a stock booster nicely.. p/s not a factor there..

hydroboost actuators are the preferred choice for heavier trucks but they do require a power steering pump to operate.. I'm not sure about this, but you may even be able to install a p/s pump on the engine to run a hydroboost brake actuator only without a p/s box but I'm not sure about the plumbing..

I think you might be pleasantly surprised with a good solid all-around brake inspection/replace as necessary..

good luck!

[neirfin]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

my apologies for poorly wording that..

I think you might be pleasantly surprised with a good solid all-around brake inspection/replace as necessary..

good luck!

No problem, I saw the hydraulic kit and noted that it requires a PS pump... I was thinking it would be an option to add the pump for just the vaccum, but the hydraulic kit is over $800 by itself...

I am going to start with the shoes, cleaning and resurfacing the drums, and adjust and bleed and see if that helps. If that isn't helping, i will look into the booster option since yes, the truck is a stock 350 with no cam changes.

[Willys_MB]

Originally Posted by neirfin

I am going to start with the shoes, cleaning and resurfacing the drums, and adjust and bleed and see if that helps. If that isn't helping, i will look into the booster option since yes, the truck is a stock 350 with no cam changes.

That's a good plan. I actually had a similar problem when I first got my truck. I replaced the worn out front shoes, machined the drums, and bled the front, thinking that was my problem. After I got it all put back together and still had no stopping power, I bled the rear and got half a quart of black gunk out of the lines. Now I can stop pretty quickly, even fully loaded.

Definitely go over everything and if it looks suspicious, just replace it because this is your braking system we're talking about. And anything you replace on one side, replace it on the other side. That way everything is the same and you don't have a mix of old and new parts. I didn't do both wheel cylinders (one of those late-night and beer influenced decisions) and the next time I took the truck out I had to put in a new wheel cylinder in on the other side.

[Willys_MB]

And yes, they have the 8 lug hubs as well.

[neirfin]

Originally Posted by Willys_MB

And yes, they have the 8 lug hubs as well.

This was why i wanted to just upgrade the system and not replace the entire front end... But this might be a good idea. I will check out my local wrecking yard for sure. Thanks!

[Willys_MB]

Originally Posted by neirfin

This was why i wanted to just upgrade the system and not replace the entire front end... But this might be a good idea. I will check out my local wrecking yard for sure. Thanks!

That was my issue as well, but my neighbor did it to his truck and it looked pretty easy. Of course, that depends on your definition of easy...

Either way, I think it's a cost effective solution. I want to do disc brakes soon on my 68 3/4 ton and that's the route I'll go. I just haven't taken my research any further than that to answer your questions about a booster or master. I have to take care of my steering gear first, but that's after I get this new motor in! Too many projects....

[neirfin]

Originally Posted by Willys_MB

That was my issue as well, but my neighbor did it to his truck and it looked pretty easy. Of course, that depends on your definition of easy...

Well its not 4wd so there isn't too much to swapping the front end, my questions for that would be did he need to replace the booster/master for the disc brakes, did it already have power booster? Based purely off my research into the parts, and seeing most places state that the boosters/kits are for front disc only, or must have P/S, 1/2 ton only, etc.... It makes me think its not as easy as it would be if it already had power or front disc...

There is a ton of options for 1/2 ton with P/S, barely anything out there for 3/4 ton manual drum...

[Willys_MB]

Originally Posted by neirfin

Well its not 4wd so there isn't too much to swapping the front end, my questions for that would be did he need to replace the booster/master for the disc brakes, did it already have power booster? Based purely off my research into the parts, and seeing most places state that the boosters/kits are for front disc only, or must have P/S, 1/2 ton only, etc.... It makes me think its not as easy as it would be if it already had power or front disc...

There is a ton of options for 1/2 ton with P/S, barely anything out there for 3/4 ton manual drum...

My gut tells me it had power brakes already, but I'm not 100% sure. He added a new booster, but I can't remember if he already had one on the truck.

[phat69]

You will need the lower control arms and spindles from the donor truck.
http://www.azproperformance.com/Alum...71-87-C10.html
I used these for the tie rods. You can also use the center link from the donor and skip the sleeve.

[stsalvage]

You know CCP makes front spindles that instead of you changing the whole front end just change the spindles and add backing or dust plates to the spindles and Put in a portion device add calibers and new brake hoses An me Yes add the booster.Never could get a straight answer's from any one on why not just change the spindles i did it to my 1968 longhorn.Put new ball joints in and i was done.

NO More Molesting 1973--87 trucks