New trans, not happy, need useful advice

[davepl]

So after the 200-4R that I had built locally died, I ordered a 4L80E from a large eBay trans rebuilder. I'll keep the name out of it until I know what's going to happen, as I'm not the "trash the name out of revenge" kind of guy.

Long story short, I bought the 4L80E for about $2,000 to my door. I did not have a core, so they supplied one, and that's where the problem is.

I'm pretty sure this core has been through a bad vehicle fire. The metal guy (welder) at the fab shop says the case is indicative of the chemicals local fire departments use to put out vehicle fires. You can see it's pretty rough.

Even though this is a restored vehicle, I could live with an ugly case if I were confident of the trans, but even the plastic wiring harness connected is cooked inside. I've included photos of both things below.

Should I just live with it? Or what should I ask the vendor to do about it?

Of course the easy answer is "Send me a new one, pay to take this one back, burn the business down and shoot all of the employees", but I'm trying to be realistic. Should I ask for a different unit? Who pays shipping of the two extra trips?

At the end of the day it's a black box (once I paint it) and it works or doesn't, but I'll be thousands into this really ugly looking unit with a melted connector.

What do you recommend I ask the trans vendor to do, if anything?

Thanks,
Dave

[hugger6933]

Dave, I would call them and talk to them and see if they would send me a new solenoid wiring harness. Of course send them pic via text or e-mails.
That harness is really simple to install and it is not much more than removing the pan and unplugging a couple connectors then replacing with a new one. There are new ones available[I assume there are I've only bought them new for the 4L60E]and they don't cost too much I think I paid like $75 for mine with two new solenoids.

[midniteblues]

i wouldnt worry about it. they supplied the core so you got what they had.
as long as whats inside is well done would be good enough for me.

you could clean it up just a little bit and a few coats of paint would make it look much better as you really dont see much of the trans case when installed anyway.
i'm sure you engine block is a rough casting too ,maybe not burnt but still rough.

i have a buddy who sanded out and pretty much polished 90% of a th350 case....i told him many times he was nuts.

[dazza]

Had you just showed me the pictures without mentioning the fire, I wouldn't have noticed anything about the case, and if I did notice it, I would have just thought that is how it was cast. I would have thought the connector looked a bit rough and used. Make them replace the connector and as long as there is no serious deep cavities or fractures/cracks in the case, I'd keep it.

[dazza]

Cool that your welder spotted it though!

[Grumpy old man]

Dave , For all the time and money you've already put in your truck and this trans I wouldn't even consider bolting that thing in . It looks like it was dumped in a hot tank and left to long .send it back and make them build one thats worthy of being in your truck not something that looks like it's going to be problems before it comes out of the box .

[57larry]

that's one ugly looking tranny. I've always been a fan of the turbo 350

[Toxic Orange]

My .02 cents. I don't think you will ever get what you don't ask for. Ebay has some pretty good protection on the buy side. If you are not satisfied let the seller know, see what they will do for you before you live with something that you are not comfortable with. Looks like quite a rough surface to me, but I am not familiar with that casting and if its normally that rough. My TH350 is pretty darn smooth compared to that.

[Toxic Orange]

Here's a picture as a reference point. No sanding etc. on this casting, just primer paint and clear.

[Gromit]

In case you are considering breaking out the orbital sander and 80 100 150 220 grit - watch out for ye olde "Class D" fire.

I sanded down an aluminum case once and was horrified when I finished and went to dump out the little cloth filter bag on the sander and realized I had enough aluminum powder there to have my own little 5,000 degree Fahrenheit fourth of July right there in the garage.

Here is from OSHA or somebody like that on the topic of aluminum grinding residue:

"Even if pure, non-ferrous aluminum is used, sparks can occur during an aluminothermic reaction, also called a thermic reaction. Such a reaction occurs when an aluminum particle and a metal oxide, such as rust, are ignited by a heat source and chemically burn as a "Class D" fire (i.e., combustible metal). The reaction is similar to a fireworks explosion, can create 4,500ºF sparks, and can occur when a grinder is used on ferric material (e.g., steel) prior to being used on an aluminum material or vice versa. This type of sparking and associated fire hazard may be eliminated by restricting the use of a grinder to only one type of material. In the absence of that safeguard, if grinding under these circumstances creates sparks, then it is considered hot work and a fire watch would be required under any of the circumstances described in 1915.504(b).

Grinding aluminum also can create housekeeping issues. An aluminothermic reaction can occur in situations where there is an accumulation of powder or dust from the grinding operation. A shipyard environment typically contains metal oxide, in the form of rust, and a heat source, in the form of welding, cutting, brazing, or grinding. If enough aluminum powder is introduced, there is a potential for a significant aluminothermic reaction. In an Australian Department of Energy "lessons learned" article, "Fireball from Aluminum Grinding Dust," an individual received first- and second-degree bums on his hands and head from a fireball that developed while grinding a piece of angle iron a few days after another individual ground the heads off approximately twelve aluminum pop rivets. This type of accident may be prevented by employing good housekeeping habits in addition to using material-specific tools.

Aluminum dust also can be combustible or explosive if it becomes suspended in the air at the right concentration. For example, one employee was killed, and three others were severely burned in an Indiana plant that manufactures aluminum automotive wheels after a series of explosions was fueled by aluminum dust. OSHA has recognized the combustible nature of metal dusts in its Combustible Dust National Emphasis Program Directive (CPL 03-00-008, March 11, 2008). In addition, OSHA has issued a fact sheet, "Hazard Alert: Combustible Dust Explosions, 790." Both of these documents describe the hazards and preventive measures associated with combustible dusts, which include aluminum".

[toolboxchev]

To be honest, You definitely have a concern! And it is a rebuild, I would be even more concerned.

Like Grumpy states, and me personally there is an issue with appearance and other things like the connector.

We are doing what we do because somewhere in our souls we consider ourselves to be craftsmen.

If they did not inform you up front that is a tad shady, My biggest concern is what I do not see with parts.

I would not burn their house down, yet cosmetic flaws in manufacturing are indicative of other Major Flaws.

If I were a business I would be concerned about future business created by outstanding customer service.

[special-K]

My ears perked when you mentioned the possibly cooked wiring. Then, looking at the pictures, the loss of materials around fittings and ports has me concerned with sealing properly now and on down the road. I guess they give their crappiest cases to those with no core. Had you sent a core you would expect one back in similar condition. I'm not big on buying such things anywhere but a local shop. Hands-on buying has it's benefits far beyond saving money

[Grumpy old man]

^ X2 when purchasing high ticket items and $2,000.00 trans is a high ticket item to me ,I want to see and touch it before I walk out the door ,I'd be curious just what your local Ammco transmission shop would want for one ? In the Seattle area there must be 50 transmission shops which ones do the local car clubs use ?

[67 chevelle]

Ive never seen a case like that , would not put it in my truck , get them to replace it , it looks scoured to the point of serious weakening , I have seen many pristine case's break

[Joesjunk]

Following to see what you find out. I sure think I would send it back

[So.Cal.Super]

First off I have to ask after seeing those pictures, did you buy a Used Tranny off Ebay or Rebuilt? because that looks more like used IMO.
I'm a big believer in you get what you pay for. I've seen plenty of people get lucky with "look what I got for cheap"
I'm not one of them.
Not having a Core to supply should only mean you don't get a Core refund.
It should not mean you're going to get a pile of junk. What those pics show me is someone didn't fully disassemble the transmission before cleaning.
Also, if you're not going to at least replace the $50 harness connector what did you not replace inside?
What kind of warranty does it even have?
Like Grumpy said Dave, for all the money you have spent on your truck and I've seen plenty of the threads over the years, I wouldn't put it in there.
I'm not a Fan of Used parts and if I bought a rebuilt trans off the internet I would go with a big name TCI, Hughes, ETC. On the same note I could easily be sitting on the side of the road broke down while you mosey on by with your Ebay tranny.
I think we all agree we don't like the looks of it, I would even eat shipping because of that alone
It's really all about what you want to trust.
Here's hoping for the best!

[jdw]

Send it back. Don't pay shipping. Even if it states you pay return shipping, ebay is on your side as that is not as advertised. "Rebuilt".

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by jdw

Send it back. Don't pay shipping. Even if it states you pay return shipping, ebay is on your side as that is not as advertised. "Rebuilt".

It is advertised exactly as rebuilt. Now, if he installs it and something doesnt work then sure.

I still wouldnt put it in.

[BugzC10]

The casting looks like it has been coated with some sort of bed liner material. The connector looks like crap, but it probably works. First ..call the seller. Convey your concerns and pictures, then see how they respond. Their response will dictate your next course of action. At a minimum, they might send you a new connector. If you must return it at your expense, ask the if you can get their carrier rate. If they do enough business , they should have a corporate rate.
Did the seller state the details of their rebuilding process? Such as all new parts??

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by davepl

So after the 200-4R that I had built locally died, I ordered a 4L80E from a large eBay trans rebuilder. I'll keep the name out of it until I know what's going to happen, as I'm not the "trash the name out of revenge" kind of guy.

Long story short, I bought the 4L80E for about $2,000 to my door. I did not have a core, so they supplied one, and that's where the problem is.

I'm pretty sure this core has been through a bad vehicle fire. The metal guy (welder) at the fab shop says the case is indicative of the chemicals local fire departments use to put out vehicle fires. You can see it's pretty rough.

Even though this is a restored vehicle, I could live with an ugly case if I were confident of the trans, but even the plastic wiring harness connected is cooked inside. I've included photos of both things below.

Should I just live with it? Or what should I ask the vendor to do about it?

Of course the easy answer is "Send me a new one, pay to take this one back, burn the business down and shoot all of the employees", but I'm trying to be realistic. Should I ask for a different unit? Who pays shipping of the two extra trips?

At the end of the day it's a black box (once I paint it) and it works or doesn't, but I'll be thousands into this really ugly looking unit with a melted connector.

What do you recommend I ask the trans vendor to do, if anything?

Thanks,
Dave

Man, im realllly glad you bought it through ebay. Smart idea instead of buying it not on there because you would have no recourse.

I would find out how much the effected part costs to remove and replace and have them cover that charge. Or, give them the option. If they are willing to take this one back and send another one on THEIR Dime you will give them a good review, if they dont want to do that you cant promise you arent going to drop a bad review.

[jdw]

That connector doesn't look "rebuilt" to me.

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by jdw

That connector doesn't look "rebuilt" to me.

You dont replace connectors unless they are damaged. Thats why i was saying if that connector functions, then it still applies.

BUT, just having all that heat put to it would make me nervous.

[davepl]

Well, I had the night to sleep on it. And I've read all the advice, which ranges from "Nothing you can do" to the "Send it back without paying and hope something good happens".

I simply emailed the trans builder, explained it, and asked for a new (not cooked) unit and this one to be picked up. I would be thrilled to find out that's what he's going to do, but we shall see. I know I'd take care of it, as would my father and his father, but business is a little different today.

Actually if it were my business this would never have gone out like this, but I digress.

I'll let you know what happens and update it with the name once it's all said and done.

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by davepl

Well, I had the night to sleep on it. And I've read all the advice, which ranges from "Nothing you can do" to the "Send it back without paying and hope something good happens".

I simply emailed the trans builder, explained it, and asked for a new (not cooked) unit and this one to be picked up. I would be thrilled to find out that's what he's going to do, but we shall see. I know I'd take care of it, as would my father and his father, but business is a little different today.

Actually if it were my business this would never have gone out like this, but I digress.

I'll let you know what happens and update it with the name once it's all said and done.

Well, say you knew the trans worked, you still wouldnt sell it?

Do they dyno their trans from that place you bought it from? Im really curious how they would handle it.
If it was at my shop, i would give you options.
1) Run it, and here is a small discount since its so ugly.
2) Here is a new connector, small discount since its so ugly. Run it.

The discount should at least be the cost of shipping to make it even worth anyones time, and im sure thats not cheap on a transmission.

We still arent 100% its ever been in a fire, this is just what a welder stated looking at the aluminum.. i just went out and checked a th400, a 700, and some random f150 trans and they all have different textures....

Side note, with so many places selling transmissions, why would you buy one on the internet? No one local near you? Price that much better? Whats their warranty?

Im still smiling that you made them do the transaction through their ebay account. Can you imagine if you didnt, i feel like they wouldnt give a crap about you if you didnt do that.

[DBK81]

I'd like to see how this all play's out, subscribed.