Intro from an old Assembly Plant guy

[Keith Seymore]

Makin' some more headway...

Here's the bottom of the dash painted and the kick panels painted (and the kickpanel plastic cleaned up):









Also got the pedals painted black and new pads installed:

[tucsonjwt]

Welcome aboard Keith. Your post brings back memories.
I also worked for GM in the late 1970s, before being laid off and moving to Arizona. I got a GM sponsored graduate degree via CMU which offered classes in various GM plants and other offsite locations, including Flint Truck Assembly. I remember watching the body drops on my way to class in conference rooms deep inside the plant. All of the GMI grads in my graduate classes complained that they could not get out of their first production supervision assignment and into engineering, since those jobs were all filled by outside "top tier" engineering school grads, and not "car school" grads. It's good to see that you proved their perception wrong.
I bought a 73 C20 454 for $450 in 1982 and drove it out here to AZ after being laid off from GM. I kept that vehicle for 21 years, until rust made it too dangerous to drive. I then bought a 76 C20 350/350 (a real dog) which I sold after two years. In 2002 I bought a 83 C20 454 granny 4 spd. (with a gear vendor) and had a dump hoist conversion installed. I drive that today, after countless repairs- just a second vehicle.
One quick question that has always been a problem with 454s - how do you stop "starter heat soak" - the no start condition when the engine is hot? So far, I have installed remote solenoid, GM high torque mini starter, and dual start batteries - but still a somewhat difficult start in 110 degree AZ heat.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

... All of the GMI grads in my graduate classes complained that they could not get out of their first production supervision assignment and into engineering, since those jobs were all filled by outside "top tier" engineering school grads, and not "car school" grads. It's good to see that you proved their perception wrong.

Thanks for the note. I was able to use my time as a supervisor to weasel my way into the Assembly Liaison job - first as a Flint Assembly employee and then as an Engineering employee - doing the same work. So far, everything has gone according to plan career wise (other than that little "bankruptcy" thing last year...)

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

... One quick question that has always been a problem with 454s - how do you stop "starter heat soak" - the no start condition when the engine is hot? So far, I have installed remote solenoid, GM high torque mini starter, and dual start batteries - but still a somewhat difficult start in 110 degree AZ heat.

Sounds like you are doing all the right things. The only other thought I can offer up is that eventually the ignition wiring gets bad, from heat and age. My Chevelle got to where it wouldn't start even with two new batteries in the trunk. That's when I wired up a pushbutton start, jumping directly across the posts of the starter. As soon as I did that - no more problems. You just turn the key to "on" (not crank), push the button and away you go -

K

[57rookie]

I too work for a major truck manufacturer - Daimler, although we manufacturer larger units, Freightliners and Western Stars, and Mercedes Benz trucks in Europe and Benz cars world wide. I have also held different positions within the organization and currently as a field District Service Manager serving dealerships technically and ensuring trucks stay on the road. Ultimately I am a car guy that loves anything with wheels and I can appreciate any brand of vehicle restoration as I know what it takes to get them back in to great condition. Hats off to another true automotive enthusist! I am currently working on a 1986 Canadian GMC Wrangler long box.

[old cool]

Dear Keith,
I read this post with interest, but I also read the brief history you wrote about your dad (Van). Sounds like he was quite a quite a car guy. And you, are probably a "chip off the old block". I think write-ups like yours are what makes the classic car and truck hobby fun. I believe others would still enjoy the history and it should be re-exposed; (especially for Pontiac fans).
My dad spent his entire career at PMD and I too was a car assembler at PMD and FB; both in Pontiac during the late 60's.
I loved your 58 Pontiac, and who wouldn't love to own your dad's original 65 GTO!
I hope others read your post. I found it on forums.performanceyears.com. I'm sure you also have it written under this forum.
I'm still working on drive line noises (I'm sure you remember the post). And, as you suggested, perhaps since we are local to one another we can hook up for test drive. You can't beat experience when it comes to the older hammers. Perhaps what I'm hearing is normal though I don't think so.
Before I forget, is the May Dust Off show still happening? And, when is the next Widetrackers show? Hope to hear from you.
Ted (old cool)

[Keith Seymore]

Thank you for the post and for the kind words -

The Widetrackers Dustoff has been moved to June in an attempt to get into the better Michigan weather (...not sure it's working, though). It is scheduled for Saturday June 14th, which should be their next big event.

Make sure and introduce yourself if we meet up; I'll have some questions about your PMD days as well.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Looks like photobucket finally caught up with me;

I have hosted them on another third party site and am gradually going through and replacing the photobucket boxes. Please be patient.

I have them saved on my laptop so if any reader has a specific question or item of interest I can address that as an attachment.

K

[v30crewcab]

yeah hopefully they will figure out their mistake and go back to being useful. I hope nobody pays their fees for their slow web stuff. their pics used to work ok but never could get their videos to work.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Looks like photobucket finally caught up with me;

I have hosted them on another third party site and am gradually going through and replacing the photobucket boxes. Please be patient.

I have them saved on my laptop so if any reader has a specific question or item of interest I can address that as an attachment.

K

Done!

At first I said I wasn't going to do it, but I've gone through and repaired the links to all of my Photobucket pictures.

You'll note some of the other participant's photos still have the blue box but all of mine should show up.

If you notice something out of order let me know and I'll take a look at it.

Thanks,

K

[porpaintt]

Keith,it sounds like you had a fun career,which makes it easier, even with the ups and downs that come with it, makes problem solving more enjoyable than a job.
I go back and read your bio from time to time to see how much you enjoyed what you were doing.

I have come up with a little problem with my 73 4 door I am building.
I am installing power doors on the truck and have not been able to figure out where the front door harnesses come into the cab,do I have to drill some holes ,if so where?
I don't think they will fit through the holes for the front hinge bolt.
This is a 73 4 door that had airbut know power doors.
Thanks for any info you can supply.
Carl

[northern 85]

Welcome from Maine! Very cool story,very nice trucks!

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

Welcome to the best GM truck forums Keith! ...I lived near downtown Rochester throughout those years and the WCC division of Navistar still maintains a sales and service office in Troy on Stephenson Hwy near 14 Mile Rd, which I frequent about every 6 to 8 weeks.

Glad to see another GMer here and hope to see more of you. If you happen to see the truck below rolling around your neighborhood, it is my friend Tom’s truck that lives in Clawson. It is an unbelievably clean 1985 K20 native MI snow plow truck. I live at the Drury Inn at exit 69 Big Beaver Rd at least a couple days a week every 6 to 8 weeks. You will have to stop by and have a beverage with me sometime. The picture of this red snow plow truck was taken in the parking lot there in front of TGI Fridays at the Drury Inn. Who knows, you probably had a hand in building this plow truck!

Enough of my rambling.....Again, you have just joined the best GM truck website there is!

Thanks, Larry. Shoot me an email at keith.seymore@gm.com and we'll visit; let me know the next time you are in town and we'll get together.

K

[Keith Seymore]

I've got a few minutes so I thought I'd bang out a few more picture captions:

I'm referring back to these pictures:

http://www.73-87.com/7387info/Assembly%20Line.htm

Picture 8: The ELPO dip tank. This was a revolutionary painting process (at the time) where the entire vehicle was "dipped" in the primer paint. The vehicle itself was electrically charged, which opens the pores of the metal, allowing the paint to seep in. The charge is then cut off, closing the pores and the paint is trapped. The excess is literally rinsed off (with water) once the vehicle emerges from the tank, resulting in a smooth finish and excellent coverage.

I remember the process was fairly new when I started so it was probably installed in the mid to late 70's (on line 2 first, then line 1 later). The ELPO process is still in use today. In the Mishawaka (H2) plant the vehicle is actually "tumbled", end over end, in the tank to ensure all air bubbles are evacuated.

Picture 10: You can see the operator spraying a little bit of "Ziebart" type rust proofing inside the door.

Picture 11, 12: Paint shop: Nothing too revolutionary in this particular picture but it does make me think of a couple things. A) In this picture you can see the operator is spraying with a conventional spray gun. Sounds impressive but the reality is this guy could have been sweeping the floors the day before; today he is handed a spray gun and within three or four trucks he is "painting". In an attempt to modernize we actually installed an automated "turbine bell" system (Behr was the manufacturer), whereby a small cone (like a showerhead) is spun at a very high speed (ie, 20,000 rpm) and the paint is "slung" onto the vehicle. Here again, the vehicle was electrically charged, drawing the paint to the metal (you could actually see the paint turning the corners to stick on the backside) reducing overspray and waste. The only problem was that for any metallic paints it took the metal flakes and lined them all up neatly in order, changing the overall perceived color. We had to go back with a traditional reciprocating sprayer and apply a light color coat on those particular trucks to get the paint to match the standard chip.

B) You can't really see it, but in the background of those spray booths there is a "waterfall", that is, water running down the sides of the booths in sheets. The vacuum from the falling water captures the overspray, rinsing it into a holding tank where it is dried and the resulting "sludge" is disposed of; presumably in a manner befitting a hazardous waste.

C) Something else you all might not know, but which I found clever: for two tone trucks, the secondary color was actually applied first. The desired pattern (whether the inset or lower body - ZY1 = solid paint and ZY2 - ZY8 were the two tones) is then covered up with butcher paper and tape and then the primary color is applied over that. The paper is removed and VIOLA you have your two tone. Incidentally, some of you may remember the ZY7 paint scheme, where the secondary color formed a "spear" above the feature line with then curved upward at the cab back and over the roof - this paint scheme was conceived and developed by a couple "mechanics" (ie, technicians) at the Milford Proving Ground and subsequently adopted for production.

D) Lastly, you can see that wheels were received in black primer and the appropriate color (white or argent silver) was sprayed on the show surface, with no masking and allowing the overspray to flow through any openings or slots. (That's a big deal to the Corvette and/or Pontiac enthusiasts).

Pictures 13, 14, 15: Body drop: this was the most dramatic of assembly operations (...tour groups would stand and watch this for as long as you would let them). The bodies came down through an opening in the second floor which, with the high ceilings of an assembly plant, was a LONG way. A good hoist operator would let the body essentially "free fall", flying down through the floor WHOOOSH and then EEEEEK stopping just inches off the chassis. The guys on the first floor would nonchalantly install their body mounts and gently guide the cab/box onto the chassis, as though they did it every day (...which, of course, they did). Body bolts and box bolts were tightened (hopefully not crossthreaded, which happened relatively often) and the truck sent on its way, all without ever stopping the line.

I should mention the line (almost) NEVER stopped. Wrong cabs, wrong tire/wheel assemblies, heart attacks, lack of manpower, material shortages, etc, were NOT enough to stop the line. During my time on the final line I honestly don't recall that I ever personally pushed the stop button. I did, a couple times, on the chassis line in the brake area when the tooling was stretched against it's air hose and to let it go would have pulled the hose off its coupling. Other than that it was very, very rare. I also recall that the line rate was slightly faster than what was reported to central office so that, on a good day, we could actually produce more than the required number of trucks, resulting in a few "free" vehicles. The only times I remember the line stopping were due to downages in the cab shop, whereby the downstream operations ran out of bodies, and we had a tornado (once) and hung out in the basement.

Picture 16: back to the trim area, so they are skipping around a bit. Body glass and all the interior trim were installed in Trim, which for Line1 pickups was on the first floor at the south end of the building [so vehicles started with the cab shop, south end first floor, went to the second floor for paint, then back downstairs for trim, then back up to the second floor for the accumulator (body bank) and in preparation for body drop]. Most of the cute ladies, if there were any, worked in Trim (and usually had a number of extra male workers hovering around).

Picture 17, 18, 19, 20: Final line, showing headlight aim, wheel alignment and the final mainline inspection. Those headlight aimers are a mechanical device which attach to the headlamp lens with a suction cup; a small bubble level is used to adjust up/down and there is an arrangement of mirrors which set the adjustment crosscar. Typically during wheel alignment, while the man in the pit is setting the toe adjustment, the driver is busy cycling all the lights, turn signals, making sure the radio works, trying the windshield washers, etc. The vehicle engine is running during these tests so the short "walls" on either side of the line are comprised of vacuum vents which suck out the exhaust fumes.

I should mention that a number of employees were required to move all the vehicles around: not only to drive them off the end of the line (usually done by regular workers assigned to that job) but also a whole "subculture" of volunteer drivers used to shuttle vehicles back and forth to the repair and shipping areas. This was usually done by extra "utility" workers who did not have an assignment on the line for that day, by "rehab" workers who might be temporarily disabled but could drive a vehicle, and by any other derelicts and hot-n-tots that could be rounded up. This activity usually continued long after the main line had stopped and, as a source of overtime income, was a popular job for those who showed some initiative for extra income ( that is, the guys that were over-extended because they bought too many boats, snowmobiles, motorcycles, etc).

Last picture: there she is, the diamond of the Flint night sky, Chevrolet Flint Assembly, complete with that familiar red and white checkerboard water tower. At one point this was the only plant in the world producing GM Full Size Utility vehicles (back before they were known as "SUVs") and is still producing Light Duty pickups and Medium Duty trucks. The plant can be viewed from two major expressways, bordered by I-75 (to the west; running north/south) and I-69 (to the north; running east/west). My off hours activities would often take me past the plant, allowing me to smell the distinctive ELPO fumes and causing a short lived mild depression (they still have that affect). I am reminded that those stacks also emitted small globules of paint, which would stick to your vehicle in the form of small black blobs. Many people would simply have their vehicles wheeled out every year or two (which after a particularly noxious spill GM would pay for); I elected to cover my little blue stepside with a car cover thereby short circuiting that process.

[OARNGESI]

really cool story

[BIG10]

Welcome, great story and great reading. Had me hooked. You should write a book. I know a lot of people that would love to read your story.

[moneyeater]

Welcome to the board from Germany!
Very cool story and Job and pics!
Once we had a thread about the motivation that tightens us to these trucks and this story would fit in there perfectly!
Volker

[78 Chevyrado]

Welcome, Glad to have you on the site. Looks like you'll have lots of rare info for everyone.

[larrystone]

The is a good reason the OP shadowed his truck went thru assembly.

Back in the day there was a RWD Caddy, Olds, Buick full size assembly plant in Linden NJ. I knew a few of the guys that worked there and they commuted on the weekend to their homes, wife's, and children in Northeast PA.

One story I remember is that of how they used to sabotage the vehicles. They saw a build sheet from a local dealer and noticed the name of the guy who ordered the car was a real local SOB.

They proceeded to place empty seven ounce coke bottles in the bottoms of all the inside doors and other things which I do not or care not to remember.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by larrystone

The is a good reason the OP shadowed his truck went thru assembly.

Back in the day there was a RWD Caddy, Olds, Buick full size assembly plant in Linden NJ. I knew a few of the guys that worked there and they commuted on the weekend to their homes, wife's, and children in Northeast PA.

One story I remember is that of how they used to sabotage the vehicles. They saw a build sheet from a local dealer and noticed the name of the guy who ordered the car was a real local SOB.

They proceeded to place empty seven ounce coke bottles in the bottoms of all the inside doors and other things which I do not or care not to remember.

I didn't really have any problem with malicious, intentional sabotage with my guys except for one occasion: one of my regular workers, a really great, faithful "good" guys didn't show up one night, which was very unusual for this guy. He finally came rolling in just before lunch and he was high as a kite on something . He was in very good spirits, working his way down the line, socializing - until - he got to his locker and somehow got it in his head that someone had taken his boom box.

He went ballistic. He started threatening anyone near by, yelling, and starting running down the line banging the power tools into the side of the trucks. I called plant security and they tried to catch him, but he out ran them all the way to the parking lot, turning over trash cans and generally leaving a mess in his wake.

As my other workers came back from lunch, I remember them commenting (unknowingly) - "geez, boss, you should see the parking lot: looks like a tornado hit it with all the trash cans turned over..."




I don't recall that he ever came back. It really broke my heart because, as I say, up to that point he was a great worker...

K

[D13]

Ah, more GM'rs coming clean.
I started at Clark Street in '85 building B/C cars, did a stint in Olds Service at Lansing, then moved to Warren for LAD / Small Car Planning, then Reliability and Test. Finally escaped to Manufacturing, launched the 92 Alero, was loaned to Saturn for the Vue, then back to GM and became a Product DE. I'm now over in AVDC doing Exteriors. It's been a wild ride!

I've owned some of your stuff including 81, 82, 87 trucks, a pair of GMT400's (including a 454SS and a W/T strippo) and currently look out the window at my 146K 99 GMT800. I report NO issues with the air box other than a heck of a time chaning the filter!
Welcome and thanks for sharing!

[79gmcc15]

oh, GOOD JOB GUYS! you scared him away!!! btw welcome to the bored! from Everett WA.

[JohnC]

I wasn't aware there were so many GM guys here on the boards. That's pretty cool!!!

[Keith Seymore]

Thanks, guys, for the warm welcome and encouraging words! I'll post up some more stories as they come to mind and will answer questions as I can.

Had a good weekend these last couple days; polished up the inside of the cab roof (the "ceiling"?), touched up some places and plugged some holes. Didn't do very well as far as parts procurement: the vinyl floor mat showed up but doesn't look like it will fit and the replacement dash pad was back ordered. I'll post some questions on those on a separate thread.

K

[bumslie75]

Wow nice to meet you from Reedley, Ca. Thanks for all the info.

[Skirkpat]

WOW, Lake City Ammo plant, I live by that....It is hard to immagine them letting you smoke there!! LOL

By the way, Do you know Leroy Smith, he worked at GM......



Just kidding, I got that alot when I was at Ford. I took an Early Retirement From FoMoCo Claycomo Truck Plant about 3 years ago, I spent 13 yrs. there. I was part of the Launch and Design team when we launched the Hybrid Escape in '03, Lots of great stories, if people knew how we built them, the big three would be brok..........never mind.
Once I was one of the people assigned to "visually monitor" one of Ford Jr's personal car's through the plant (yes I was the babysitter) the stupid thing had 6 coats of paint on it, wich is really bad, if it had one thing wrong with the paint, they put it back through. probably ended up with 35 mil of paint on it !! The funny thing is he probably drove it twice before he sent it back.

I am glad you found the site, and good to see you made it out.. Enjoy.