Make it handle

[Tony@AirRideTech]

I agree with you there Rob ....... 5-6 degrees of caster and .5 Camber....

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Tony@AirRideTech

I agree with you there Rob ....... 5-6 degrees of caster and .5 Camber....

-.5° camber right? Not being specific might confuse some people....

[robnolimit]

Negative on the CAMBER, positive on the CASTER. yep

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Negative on the CAMBER, positive on the CASTER. yep

Like you know anything about getting a truck to handle in the corners Hey man, Are you displaying at Scottsdale Goodguys this fall ?

[leftcoast66]

So for starting from scratch with a new frame for cornering. Any suggestions on what to start with? Tube size and thickness?Design suggestions beyond what you've already covered. The truck will be on coilovers, and I'm not in a rush, I'm starting with the research now. I've been going off of Chassis Engineering and reading that book front to back, but wanted to know about where to begin, besides with paper and then some small models to test bracing and such.

[68GMCCustom]

as long as we have the caster and camber specs......whats the toe?

[M5-]

Tony @ Ridetech.

I took this off the Ridetech website but it doesn't state the caster angles. Does this mean the Strong arms have the needed caster correction?

M5


Geometry - Geometry of a suspension starts with the position of the frame mounts and the height of the spindle, not the shape of the control arm. However, there are a few small things in control arm design that can make a big difference in how a vehicle drives and performs.

•We create extra caster potential by adjusting the fore and aft position of the ball joints. At the same time we make sure the wheel is properly positioned in the wheel-well so your new 18" wheels fit like they should!
•The balljoint camber travel is re-centered to accommodate the new lowered ride height so the ball joint doesn’t bind during extreme suspension movement.
•The perimeter of the StrongArms is contoured to allow maximum wheel clearance and turning radius.
•All shock mounts, airspring mounts, and swaybar mounts are integrated into the design so you don’t have to finish the engineering in order to enjoy your ride!

StrongArms™ are optimized to allow proper camber adjustment at your new lowered ride height without using a large stack of shims.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Originally Posted by M5-

Tony @ Ridetech.

I took this off the Ridetech website but it doesn't state the caster angles. Does this mean the Strong arms have the needed caster correction?

M5


Geometry - Geometry of a suspension starts with the position of the frame mounts and the height of the spindle, not the shape of the control arm. However, there are a few small things in control arm design that can make a big difference in how a vehicle drives and performs.

•We create extra caster potential by adjusting the fore and aft position of the ball joints. At the same time we make sure the wheel is properly positioned in the wheel-well so your new 18" wheels fit like they should!
•The balljoint camber travel is re-centered to accommodate the new lowered ride height so the ball joint doesn’t bind during extreme suspension movement.
•The perimeter of the StrongArms is contoured to allow maximum wheel clearance and turning radius.
•All shock mounts, airspring mounts, and swaybar mounts are integrated into the design so you don’t have to finish the engineering in order to enjoy your ride!

StrongArms™ are optimized to allow proper camber adjustment at your new lowered ride height without using a large stack of shims.

Yes, They will allow you to achieve those alignment specs

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Originally Posted by 68GMCCustom

as long as we have the caster and camber specs......whats the toe?

Toes are on your feet

Sorry..... I guess i could have gave you an answer.... 1/8" Toe-in unless you are running old school Bias plys... then you can go a little more.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Tony@AirRideTech

Toes are on your feet

Sorry..... I guess i could have gave you an answer.... 1/8" Toe-in unless you are running old school Bias plys... then you can go a little more.

Is the increased caster 'potential' on Ride Techs a-arms from both top & bottom arms or ?? I didn't know if the uppers or lowers were responsible for the increases.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by scoti

is the increased caster 'potential' on ride techs a-arms from both top & bottom arms or ?? I didn't know if the uppers or lowers were responsible for the increases.

ttt......

[68GMCCustom]

I thought it was the uppers....at least thats what I understood and went with.

[robnolimit]

Yes, we'll be in scottsdale. - Dirty Dog Saloon!!!. 1/8" toe in is just right on the street. If you go autocrossing (autoX), take some wrenches with you. When you get to the track, loosen the lock bolts on the tie-rods, and turn them to toe out one full rotation each. this will toe the truck out a bit, and it WILL turn in a bit faster. When your done, set it back and drive home.
LeftCoast, Start with a plan. Wheel and tire size are important to know so you can establish axle/spindle center hieght and ride hieght. Give yourself 3 to 4" above the axle for travel, then lay out your rear step design. Do your best to keep the lower A-Arm level or running downhill 3 to 5 degrees at ride height.
but a copy of Herb Adams suspension book. If your a computer guy, buy a copy of "suspension geometry pro" Knowledge is power, and it is way cheaper to do it right the first time.

[leftcoast66]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

LeftCoast, Start with a plan. Wheel and tire size are important to know so you can establish axle/spindle center hieght and ride hieght. Give yourself 3 to 4" above the axle for travel, then lay out your rear step design. Do your best to keep the lower A-Arm level or running downhill 3 to 5 degrees at ride height.
but a copy of Herb Adams suspension book. If your a computer guy, buy a copy of "suspension geometry pro" Knowledge is power, and it is way cheaper to do it right the first time.

Thanks for the tips on that. I've got a notebook with all of my scribbles on those, and Herb's book is sitting next to my bed. That computer program sounds great, I'll pick that up and start playing with that. Its a huge help, so thanks for the tips, I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way, but its a great place to start learning more.

[robnolimit]

Here's a quick lesson we learned, or re-learned last night. We have a local road coarse that runs 'time-attack' on tuesday nights. It's a great place to test, and a heck of a lot of fun. A frustrated group with a pretty nice 32 roadster were unhappy with its handling, and set out to fix it. - Its a good runner, and it handles well. They unhooked the rear swaybar, AND make a big change in brake bias, shutting down the rear brakes as much as possible. Next run they spun the car into some tires, and ground it down the track curb. Scuffed paint, tweeked fender tip, (slight), and a tore up lower A-arm.
Lesson 1: ONE CHANGE AT A TIME
Lesson 2: DOCUMENT YOUR CHANGES - AND THE RESULTS
Lesson 3: FEEL THE CAR OUT AT LOW SPEEDS FIRST
I know not everybody has a test track available, but you can lay out a test run area on a back road. As you run it, note your speed or rpm through different areas, check tire temps at the end of a run. We use a hand help heat gun. check the temps at the center, and each side of the tread (inside/ouside) Compare your temps. Hot in the center - too much air. Cool in the center - low pressure. Lets say temps run 122 outside, 128 center, 136 inside. - too much neg camber. This is a great tuning tool. give it a try.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Did you do this backroad testing between the pizza place and the house ? I remember the 46 really likes that road..... and I didnt believe you when you said that car is like a good horse and knows its way home.....

[robnolimit]

hey, we made it home. that is a good test road. Waterman canyon is good too, but next time you're out here I'll take you out to Adams in the 'Bullit. We'll stop by Wally-mart and get you some depends first.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Depends.... ??? why did you finally put carpet in that thing?

[Tony@AirRideTech]

uppers......

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Tony@AirRideTech

uppers......

Thanks!

[robnolimit]

Uppers? Downers? white ones, red ones? what??? Ohhh, A-Arms. got it.

[robnolimit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-hRerAgmHs

[robnolimit]

OK, so we finially figuered the video load out. Pretty cool. This was the winning run in Costa Mesa. A good teazer for ya.

[N2TRUX]

Fun stuff Rob, thanks for sharing. I noticed that it ran very flat through most of the course. Almost zero tire squeal until you drifted through the S turn.

Looks like a fun way to spend the day. Once I get my 77 back together, I'll have to give it a try.

[robnolimit]

Yeah it was a lot of fun. We'll be at the Tx Goodguys in a few weeks, come by and see us.