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#1 |
Dude...I'm a CHICK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Lakeland Georgia
Posts: 6,192
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Starter...again...still..
My truck still grindes whenn I try to start it. My amperage is effecient, my fly wheel looks fine, the starter is new and has no apparent cracks or damage. I have tried 1,2,3 and 4 shims, I have tried shimming only the outside with 1, 2 and 3 shims. It still grinds, the guy at Advance (not my usual choice for automotive advice) says I need a high torque starter. Gomer says Bubba can come tow it to Goobers shop and I can leave it for a few days and he can try to "figger it out". Thats NOT going to happen. Getting frustrated. The guys at the ol guys parts store say you cant get the brackets for the starters and that I have to fabricate one. I have done every thing within my limited power. What next?
![]() ![]() ![]() Oh, took some pics of what I can see, dont know if it will help any. Thanks! junk
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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "The unexamined life is not worth living" -Socrates ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* '71 GMC Suburban 4x4 |
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#2 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: TN/VA
Posts: 6,388
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Jodie, I had the same problem on my truck but it started like this with the mini high torque starters I then tried Advance auto starters NO LUCK Bought a new GM starter bolted right on no shims and has not give a bit of trouble. They are a little high in price but are they really if you take all the money and time you spent leading up to this point. Tim
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Morrow GA
Posts: 39
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Re: Starter...again...still..
I have the same problem, and tried the same soultions as you with no sucess. LMC Trucks has the starter brace. When mine comes I'm gonna give it a try.
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#4 |
Dude...I'm a CHICK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Lakeland Georgia
Posts: 6,192
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Tim, do you sell the starters? If not, where is the best place to get it? Whatcha mean by "pricey"? HOA, let me know when you get it and how it works.
Thanks!
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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "The unexamined life is not worth living" -Socrates ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* '71 GMC Suburban 4x4 |
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#5 |
Active Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Centrally located between Houston, Austin and Waco. BCS area.
Posts: 7,947
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Has it always done it from the time you bought the truck or did it start after a parts replacement? Also, did you replace the whole starter asm complete (recommended)?
I've had new defective starter asm's before. If you can't get a good one from one store try a different one that uses a different manufacturer. Years ago I had the same problem and went to a salvage yard and took the flywheel/starter combo complete. Of course this was when old 350's were common. Last edited by 68gmsee; 01-16-2011 at 01:38 PM. |
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#6 |
Sisyphus was my mentor!
![]() Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Carleton Place, Ontario CANADA
Posts: 984
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Re: Starter...again...still..
My flexplate way eggshapped & would only grind if the motor stopped at certain points.
1) Is the grinding a result of it spinning & not engaging due to hitting the flexplate OR 2) is the solenoid not swinging the drive all the way forward? If its # 1, then shims, a new flexplate should fix it or a new bushing in the starter nose (they wear too & shimming will only push it farther away from the felxplate). If it's # 2, then you could have a worn out solenoid, a worn out/sticky or a bad bushing in the drive. It could also be a bad engaement fork. If it's very worn, it wont swing the drive far enough forward. Lots to think about for sure. You may want to try the drive, bushing and solenoid fixes first as they are fairly cheap & easy. As long as you are there, put some new brushes in. I was born under a bad sign when it came to starters, but now they dont mess with me... Feel free pm or reply here with more questions GMCjunkie...
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passthebuck ![]() #5642 -TWO 1967 GMC 910's. One with L6/3-on-the tree and the other with 355 w/435hp & a 700r4. -a 2013 Honda Civic as my "sensible" car |
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#7 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kokomo Indiana
Posts: 56
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Re: Starter...again...still..
I had a simmular problem a while back. I kept adding shims thinking that the starter drive was too close. It turned out the opposite. After I added enough shims it actually would not touch it at all. It turned out that not all of the Chevy starters are the same offset. If you have the old starter, check the offset between the bolt holes and the bushing.
I don't know what engine you are running,my engine is a big block. I don't know how to tell you what to order to get the proper one, I just got lucky in that I happened to have one that fit. |
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#8 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toppenish, WA
Posts: 15,522
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Re: Starter...again...still..
A lot of these "rebuilders" machine or sand off the mounting surface of the starter to get a nice shiny surface an hence the need for shims. That throws everything out of kilter.
So far I'm not a fan of high torque" starters as I have seen guys on every board I'm on have more issues with them than factory style starters. What you might want to do though is to get a new genuine GM starter endframe for your starter that is the correct one for the setup you have and swap the other pieces over to it. That would give you a better chance of getting the register between the starter drive and the flexplate. |
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#9 |
Embrace the Redneck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cabot, AR
Posts: 1,334
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Mine was grinding because the block was broken and was causing the starter to be crooked. You might look at this. Not that your block is broke, but maybe it's cracked where the outside bolt goes in to the block. If that's the case ask around. I didn't have to replace my block when I finally figured it out but cost about $200 for it to be recast. You can look at what had happen and the final product here.
Oh, BTW, I use a lifetime warranty, rebuild from AutoZone and I don't use a shim. All parts stores are alike now days, in my opinion, when it comes to their parts. Now their guys behind the counter are another story. Past that all above advise is good. Good Luck
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'01 Camaro Son, you just can't get there from here... Last edited by whitesswj; 01-16-2011 at 03:49 PM. |
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Overland Park, Ks.
Posts: 5,220
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Koko is right. The teeth are too far away. Take a big flat coarse file & go across the surface of the starter that contacts the engine. The holes get pulled out over time on the old houseings & the new ones arn't always true. I've fixed a lot of them this way.
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#11 |
Back in the sticks
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fordland, MO
Posts: 3,188
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Re: Starter...again...still..
I've had the same problem with different starters on the 71. Some would work, some would not. I just kept getting a different starter at Autozone til I got one with the cast iron nose on it, not the pot metal variety. After that, it starts great, no noise. Now I keep an old one around to have rebuilt that has that old nose cone on it so I don't have to keep searching.
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1971 Cheyenne C-10 w/700R4 and Tuned Port Injection 1969 K5 Blazer w/Tuned Port 2010 2SS/RS Flaming Orange Camaro 2011 K1500 Suburban 2014 K1500 Pickup 2008 Nissan Altima? The wifes' hoopty |
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#12 |
Cruzin
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: on the road
Posts: 2,835
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Re: Starter...again...still..
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Lime Wife's 67https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wZEMODaS2d94u8 Back to the Fifties 59 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...NAeStpydfrcj_U Proverbs 3:5,6 "Thanks to the Interstate Highway System, it is now possible to travel across the country from coast to coast without seeing anything."Charles Kuralt In memory of our first baby daughter, daddy and mommy love you. Danica Grace 6/26/14
Last edited by Hubscrub; 01-16-2011 at 06:14 PM. |
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#13 |
Dude...I'm a CHICK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Lakeland Georgia
Posts: 6,192
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Thanks everyone for your replies, 68gmsee, no, I have never had this problem. When I had it in the paint shop, they toldme it was grinding when they started it, so I had them change it out. When I got it home, it started half dozen times then started grinding, the housing was cracked, I got another one,this one hasntbeen cranked 6 times, and its grinding.
Passthebuck, it dosent seem to matter hwere it is stopped, it grindsevery time I try to start it. As far as the rest of your advice, I have no idea. The starter is new. Kokomoooo, I have a 350 small block and I do not have the old starter. Mr48chev. Im being told that more and more, I wouldnt know how to swap out the pieces, I really wouldnt mind just buying another new strater, I just want my truck to run. whitesswj, good lord, I hope thats not the problem. wrenchbender, I dont exactly understand how to do what youre suggesting. red71cheyenne, Im getting that advice alot too, Ive tried every shim combo known to man (or girl ![]() Yall are my heroes, Unless theres something else I can try myself, Ill prolly end up getting a new GM starter with a Cast nose. Thanks so much everyone!
__________________
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "The unexamined life is not worth living" -Socrates ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* '71 GMC Suburban 4x4 |
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#14 |
Dude...I'm a CHICK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Lakeland Georgia
Posts: 6,192
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Hubscrub, thanks, I have no idea how to tell where it is connecting to the fly wheel, and unfortunately, I dont know alot of people here in reguards to getting a good sound rebuilt starter.
__________________
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "The unexamined life is not worth living" -Socrates ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* '71 GMC Suburban 4x4 |
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#15 | |
member #16
![]() Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Yuba City Ca.
Posts: 3,618
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Re: Starter...again...still..
![]() ![]() Quote:
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john http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showgroups.php board vendors ![]() http://www.flickr.com/photos/1745471...7602865984234/ Last edited by john; 01-16-2011 at 06:33 PM. |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sask Canada
Posts: 1,666
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Jodie. would you have the part # for the starter that the body shop installed on the sub? just a thought that someone installed the wrong one. heres rock auto link :http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,4152
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Trueman |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vilseck Germany (currently)
Posts: 317
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Re: Starter...again...still..
This is to all that are havibg issues. Don't trust the kid behind the counter. I went through this about ten years ago, with all the advise and replacing of "bad starters. I tried shimming and replaced two flywheels (flexplates). I can't remember how many starters I changed out before a guy asked if I had the right nosecone housing. It never dawned on me the the PO had the wrong starter on the truck. You must have the flat spot above the bendix opening to clear the transmission. If you don't, you can get it tight but never get the teeth to line up right. BTW, once I got the right nose cone, I haven't replaced one since.
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#18 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,427
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Not sure if anyone's mentioned it but, are the bolts starter bolts? They're somewhat different and are sort of knurled on the shaft by the heads.
Get a bracket for the back. You can disconnect the big wire, and use a 10 or 12 wire to manually operate the solenoid while you watch from underneath. It may or may not tell you much. |
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#19 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Posts: 1,370
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Quote:
The second time I had starter problems I had a flex plate for a one piece rear main 350 on a two piece engine. It looked like it should line up but I think the pitch of the teeth is off. That was a hard mistake! As far as everything else. I agree some parts store noses are crap. There are also different noses as someone mentioned. I've never had to use more than two shims. I think when your have to stack them up it's a sign of bigger trouble. I also don't think the brackets are a fix just a support for a good working starter. They can be found in junk yards usually. If your engine isn't high compression than you shouldn't need a high torque starter. Good luck with it. Keep posting what you find. I would really check for a crack and the correct nose first from what you've explained.
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2006 Silverado CCSB, 1939 Ford Sedan, 1962 BelAir Wagon, 1976 Vega Panel Charleston, South Carolina |
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#20 |
Dude...I'm a CHICK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Lakeland Georgia
Posts: 6,192
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Re: Starter...again...still..
John, the one I bought is from napa, not sure on the cast nose cone tho.
463, no I dont have it with me, I think its out in my shop, If I can locate it I will post the number. 70custom10nut, I think thats the direction Im headin in . 72lb4x4, Yes, they are the bolts that I got with the starter, trying to locate a bracket, no one around here seems to know how to go about getting one. Thanks yall, supposed to be a 90% chance of rain tomorrow so prolly wont get out to work on my truck. Im thinking I may need to replace the starter with a GM cast nosed one. Hoping thats the fix. Yall are such a great source of information to me, THANKS again ![]() junk
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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "The unexamined life is not worth living" -Socrates ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* '71 GMC Suburban 4x4 |
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#21 |
Dude...I'm a CHICK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Lakeland Georgia
Posts: 6,192
|
Re: Starter...again...still..
k5hart, Im thinking I will be removing the starter to get yet another new one, I will follow your advice and tighten the bolts back up with the starter out, never know...Also the last 3 lines of your reply hold alot of good points.
THANK YOU! junk
__________________
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "The unexamined life is not worth living" -Socrates ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* '71 GMC Suburban 4x4 |
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Overland Park, Ks.
Posts: 5,220
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Here is the way I file down the mounting face.
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#23 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kokomo Indiana
Posts: 56
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Re: Starter...again...still..
Actually the one I had trouble with was a cast Iron nose that I got at Napa.
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#24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Largo Florida
Posts: 632
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Re: Starter...again...still..
My 74 C10 had this issue bad. FORGET using the POSs from any of the chain stores, they get the aluminum starter nose from an offshore supplier that have been poorly reverse engineered off a worn out GM one. I only use cast iron nose starters now for this exact reason. Either get one with an iron nose or pay the money and get one out of GM parts. Once you get a good one get it rebuilt rather than exchanging it. The bracket for the starter is still avaliable from GM too, there is no reason to pay the middleman if you can.
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Lifes journey is not to arrive at the gate well preserved, it is to slide in sideways all used up and wore out yelling.....God what'a ride! Where patience fails, force prevails Stapp's Ironical Paradox "The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." |
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#25 |
"brand new second-hand"
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: White House, Tennessee
Posts: 526
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Re: Starter...again...still..
MY buddy has this problem-he figured out the flexplate was on backwards.
As for the starter bracket -you can by new from this link $5.95-Steve ![]() 1970-1982 Corvette Starter Motor Brace ![]() if the link doesn't work go to amazon.com and type in starter bracket
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Steve 69 3/4t custom camper tilt,am/fm,speed warning,air gauge,buddy buckets,aux battery, big block,p/s,p/b,a/c 67 Camaro 96 Impala ss-sold 04 hybrid Honda-saving gas for the blue truck!:b69: |
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