Crate Engine or rebuild my 350?

[brown7373]

Previous tap, tap, tap thread has now take a new turn.

From what I can determine, a lobe on my cam is wiped. #2 intake lifter looks fine, but way loose. Rocker stud is fine (not pulled out) and rocker arm and rod looks fine too. All the lifters will spin, but they are nearly impossible to remove. I was planning on at least replacing the lifters, so I put vice grips on the lifter and pried it out.

I have never rebuilt a Chevy before. I've done a couple 455 and a 400 Pontiac successfully before. I forgot that the cam is not accessible from the top on a Chevy small block. Any way to check the suspect lobe? I was considering putting in a lifter and turning the engine and measure if it came up the same amount as the others.

It is looking like more than just replacing the lifters. How does a crate engine compare price wise with a rebuild? My 72 is not so valuable a truck that a engine change would hurt it, plus, I plan to keep it forever. We use this truck and have even taken it into the mountains on vacation. I want to keep it a nice driver. To be honest, it tends to be a little anemic on the mountain roads and a little more power would be welcome. I am not looking to make it a street racer, just a little more grunt.

Ideas?

[chooch]

LS Swap!

[davepl]

You could check the cam with a dial indicator on the lifter edge, that's what I've done. You can check at the rocker, but the hydraulic lifter makes it harder.

But why not replace the cam? You don't actually say why you think you need a more extensive rebuild.

[AussieinNC]

On your previous thread you noted the engine oil change intervals were a bit extended, and start ups were only once every 3 months or so. I have seen this cause a cam to wipe out as the lobe totally dries off during long sits and once metal to metal contact occurs, it destroys the cam lobes pretty quick.

Have you considered grabbing a later model small block Vortec 350 engine ? You would end up with roller lifters,,,one piece rear main oil seal and a "newer" casting block...(dont dump your current engine...someone may want it).

I am not thinking an LS engine...(the costs of the extra stuff can mount up)...rather something out of say a 95 thru 99 pickup etc...

Dump off all the emission stuff, have the heads fitted with new valves etc. Assuming you have an aftermarket intake on your current engine, you would need a different intake manifold if you run the Vortec heads...but otherwise, its a reasonably easy swap...maybe even add a sweet RV style cam kit...

[clay68c10]

X2 on the Vortec if there's a need for the current 350 to be totally gone thru.
I personally won't build another flat tappet small block, the Vortecs are too plentiful and affordable. For that matter, many of the TBI era blocks are roller-ready too, and they're also cheap.

[truckster]

I love building engines, and I'm actually in the middle of a build right now. That said, I have a friend who owns a machine shop so I get a really good deal on machine work and parts. Otherwise I think I'd have a hard time justifying rebuilding any engine, especially a run-of-the-mill small block.

If you want to upgrade I would strongly suggest the L31 Vortec motor. It's got a roller cam, 1-piece rear seal, and the best heads Chevy made for the small block, and is really well built. You'll need an electric fuel pump, an intake (the Vortec intake has a different bolt pattern) and a mellonized distributor gear, but you'll pick up a serious amount of torque in a bulletproof engine.

[brown7373]

AussieinNC you have me mixed up with someone else. I drive the truck almost daily and it gets oil changes 3 months or 3000 miles. The engine has 130K and recently I noticed low oil pressure at idle, but okay when underway. My oil turns BLACK in just a couple 100 miles and it leaks from several places. So I have been considering that it was getting tired, although it ran nice and smooth for the 14 years I have owned it. Since the stud, rocker, rod and lifter look fine, but it developed a lot of slack and the tap, tap, tap, what else can it be but a wiped lob?

[AussieinNC]

Apologies my friend...there was a response in your other post and I mis read the poster ID...

Been thinking about your issue...have you checked the lifter for a jammed internal sleeve...they can jam down or lose the check ball bleed down system that is necessary for it to work correctly...

Compare the old lifter to one of the others...what you are looking for is the internal sleeve not being up against the retainer clip...if it is down, you have found your issue.

If the clip is in place and against the internal small piston in the lifter, the cam lobe is most likely toast...clean up the outer surface of the lifter body with 1000 grit paper and put it back in the bore...rotate the engine by hand and measure the lift of the lifter against the lobe...then measure some others and compare...

If the cam is toast and the rest of the engine is "tired" as you have described...might be time for a Vortec 350 upgrade...

Unless specifically requested, I try and not build flat tappet engines now...all roller for this guy...

[garyd1961]

You can get a GM L31-R crate engine for around $2000. That's a brand new engine not rebuilt. I have one in my truck and love it.

[LEEVON]

As somebody else said, if you have a good machine shop that can help make the decision. If you don't already have a connection...go crate engine...no worries that way.

[PanelDeland]

Crate engines come with a warranty. That's the biggie for me. That and you get the truck back on the road quick.The other end is that if you rebuild, it's not that much more to go 383 since you would like a little more power(doesn't everyone?). Maybe check what you have, make it right enough to last a while and build one so the truck isn't down for long.

[BILT4ME]

We just bought and installed the 195 HP GM Crate NEW engine for $1400 delivered. Install a water pump, intake manifold, carburetor, harmonic balancer, fuel pump, and accessories and you're gpod to go. The 290 HP version is available for about $1K more, but the RPM range is higher for us with a 4WD and 4 speed granny low. I want the low end torque rather than high end scream.

Got it through Radley Chevrolet. Do a search for them on here and then you can do the transaction through eBay or direct. I went direct.

[Ken B]

Originally Posted by BILT4ME

We just bought and installed the 195 HP GM Crate NEW engine for $1400 delivered. Install a water pump, intake manifold, carburetor, harmonic balancer, fuel pump, and accessories and you're gpod to go. The 290 HP version is available for about $1K more, but the RPM range is higher for us with a 4WD and 4 speed granny low. I want the low end torque rather than high end scream.

Got it through Radley Chevrolet. Do a search for them on here and then you can do the transaction through eBay or direct. I went direct.

I put this same engine in my truck last June as well, it also cost me 1400 delivered. It runs perfect and I have no complaints. I really don't think there is any difference in power between the 255hp engine these trucks came with and this engine. The GM crate engine is a 4 bolt main as well and I believe its new, not a rebuilt. I added an Edelbrock intake an Eddy 600 carb along with a Pertronix Distributor and she performs quite well. Excellent oil pressure and doesn't burn a drop of oil. I saved my original engine just in case I ever decide to rebuild it.. I'm not sure what your budget or needs are but you really can't beat this one...

[brown7373]

Where do you buy the crate engine? Can I just add my original intake, carb distributor and etc.? I need to reattach the original A/C and Power steering. No issues?

[bill3rail]

I would probably go with crate engine if I needed one. Quick and easy...

Bill

[67 chevelle]

Another l31 fan here

[kx57]

Originally Posted by brown7373

It is looking like more than just replacing the lifters. How does a crate engine compare price wise with a rebuild? My 72 is not so valuable a truck that a engine change would hurt it, plus, I plan to keep it forever. We use this truck and have even taken it into the mountains on vacation. I want to keep it a nice driver. To be honest, it tends to be a little anemic on the mountain roads and a little more power would be welcome. I am not looking to make it a street racer, just a little more grunt.

Ideas?

We just rebuilt a 350 for one of our trucks. We had the builder put a "kit" in it to increase hp to 300

It would have been the same cost to buy a new crate SBC 350.

If I had to do it again I'd go crate in a heartbeat.

That being said. If it's the original motor and you intend to sell the truck someday you may want to hold onto it to sell it with the truck. Some people like to keep things as original as they can

[truckster]

Originally Posted by brown7373

Where do you buy the crate engine? Can I just add my original intake, carb distributor and etc.? I need to reattach the original A/C and Power steering. No issues?

Summit, Jegs, your GM dealer, lots of places.

If you just get a replacement crate motor (the 190 HP version, for example) everything you have will bolt right up.

If you decide you want the L31 (and there are a lot of good reasons for it) you'll need to change the intake manifold, put a mellonized gear on the distributor, install an electric fuel pump, and change the flywheel or flexplate.

[B Myers]

Crate engine is easy and reliable, building your own motor with your own specs is very cool and fun, especially when it's running and driving and you know you did it. When I restored my '71 the best part of the entire project was the motor rebuild.

[brown7373]

I know the satisfaction of driving the engine I built. I did the 455 in my 70 Bonneville convertible and drove from south Florida to Hershey 5 years in a row, plus to the NC mountains on several vacations. But time and cost seem to point me toward a crate, and keep the original engine.

[D.PASSMORE]

Good relaible machince shops are hard to loacte these days, but you have alot of agricuture in your area. I lived in Vero Beach for 18 years, and used a shop called American Cylinder Head, good shop. Also, you can call some automotive restoration shops in your area and ask for a reputable machine shop. Crate motors are worth it, but if have a classic vehicle and like to keep it OE, then rebuild your motor.

[brown7373]

I am familiar with "quality" of machine shops. Last time I did a Pontiac 455, the young guy was totally unfamiliar with a Pontiac engines as he probably never saw one. On a Pontiac the EVEN side connecting rods install on the crank first because the even side is forward of the odd side. That is opposite of a Chevy engine. As a result, he had the rods and pistons all mixed up and had to redo and renumber them all.

[garyd1961]

Originally Posted by Ken B

I put this same engine in my truck last June as well, it also cost me 1400 delivered. It runs perfect and I have no complaints. I really don't think there is any difference in power between the 255hp engine these trucks came with and this engine. The GM crate engine is a 4 bolt main as well and I believe its new, not a rebuilt. I added an Edelbrock intake an Eddy 600 carb along with a Pertronix Distributor and she performs quite well. Excellent oil pressure and doesn't burn a drop of oil. I saved my original engine just in case I ever decide to rebuild it.. I'm not sure what your budget or needs are but you really can't beat this one...

The difference is in the way they measured HP, 255 was gross HP and 195 is net HP.
Personally I wouldn't take a chance with a flat tappet cam. The L31-R is a hydraulic roller cam which is designed for todays oils. GM didn't switch to the more expensive hydraulic roller for nothing.

[treveiger]

Check out the crates at Summit Racing online. They have some decent deals for decent power. You can get ones with roller cams instead of flat tappets as well. If you like rebuilding one and want the reward of doing it yourself go for it but unless you can get a great price for the machine shop and parts it'll be hard to beat crate motors.

[BILT4ME]

This is where we got our 195 HP 350 Crate engine. Again, $1400 delivered. We bolted on all of our 1970 accessories, manifolds, etc. We also installed a Weiand dual plane intake and a Holley 650 Double Pumper.

Just got it licensed today and it runs very well. We bought a factory spec GM HEI distributor from O'Reilly's based on a 1978 spec. THe spark plugs are the angle plug instead of washer, but once you paint it orange (it arrives in all black) and bolt on the stuff, you cannot tell the difference. And neither can the DMV.

JoJo Cox
Assistant Parts Manager
Radley Chevrolet/Cadillac
W 540-376-3705 / 540-898-0055
C 540-840-5148
F 540-891-2074
jojocox@radleyautogroup.com

Jojo was a great guy to work with. Call him and confirm pricing, cross-check Radley on eBay to make sure you find the best deal on the same engine because when there are different posts, the prices go up/down based on market prices. You can purchase through eBay or direct.