'51 Build w/4bt Cummins

[stinsonj]

It looks like the majority of truck builds posted in this forum follow the same trend, V-8 swap, s10 frame, air bags, etc., and to tell you the truth, if I were building a truck for myself, that's what I would do too. But, the truck I'm currently working on is for my wife, and she wants the old farm truck look with no care for big V-8 power and something that sits flat on the ground.

I picked up a 1951 3100 about a week ago from a ranch out in central Oregon for $1,700. The last time it was registered was 1975, which I'm assuming was the last time it moved as well. According to the previous owner, it has never been wrecked, and has fairly minimal rust since its very dry over in that part of Oregon (still has some rust through in the cab corners and minimal rust in the floor boards). I have the original title which is nice since it seems that most of these trucks come with just a bill of sale since the title went missing at some point.

Anywho, here are my plans for the truck, aptly named "Pearl" by my wife:

Sand blast and paint the original frame
- Since bringing the truck home, we have already removed all of the body panels, bed, and cab, and removed the engine and tranny.

Rebuild the entire steering system

Install new leaf springs that maintain stock ride height

Swap out the old, original rear end for a GM 10-bolt

Install 4-wheel disc brakes

Swap out the original 235 straight 6 for a Cummins 4bt

Patch up the cab the best I can

Full interior


Now, the only work I plan on having someone else do is the interior work. My only experience on doing something like this was building a 1953 CJ3a. On the jeep, I swapped out the original motor for a 2.3L ford, rebuilt the steering system with completely different design than stock, installed a beefier front end, and installed new brakes on all 4 corners. So basically, I have some experience doing most that I have planned for the '51.

My questions as of right now are:

Performanceonline.com has a rack and pinion conversion kit for these truck (https://www.performanceonline.com/19...nd-Pinion-Kit/) and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with these or if I would be better off just rebuilding the stock system

Since I'll be installing something other than the standard v-8, do you think I should install the engine and tranny first, then figure out the steering set-up? Or the steering set-up first then the engine? I'm just a little worried about clearances since that ended up being an issue with my jeep.

I would like to fix the rust through areas with patch panels, but I really want to maintain the original patina, and a brand new piece of metal wouldn't fit the look. Anyone have any experience with "aging" new metal to somewhat match the old rusty stuff?

Here's a picture I took after slapping on the panels before the complete tear down. Nothing is bolted on and is just sitting in place in this picture.

[big_moss]

gonna be a cool build for sure ill follow it

[stinsonj]

Here we are removing the cab with my tractor. I only have a few more things to remove from the frame before sandblasting begins (parking brake hardware, a few more brackets, etc.). Hopefully, ill get that done this week and then sandblast this weekend.

[ptc]

Looks like a nice plan for a diesel chebby!

As for the majority of truck builds on here.... well everybody likes to do something different but with these trucks and so many of them already done and customized its hard to be different unless you go WAY OUT of the norm. And there are a few of those on here too.

Almost everything you can imagine doing to these trucks has been done by a Pro or an amateur builder somewhere along the line. WHen I started mine I thought I had some unique ideas.... I went to a LOCAL car show recently and there was my truck and ALL my ideas right there in front of my face running and beautiful already done..... I thought why bother with mine now!

But I figured out that I will bother with it cause it will be MINE.... and it will be my creation - no matter if its like all the others.... so do your own thing and enjoy it all along the way.

[stinsonj]

You are right, I'm sure it has been done before and if anyone on here has, I would love some pointers. I was able to find someone that put a 4bt in one, but he did so on an S10 frame, not the original frame. At first I was thinking of installing a 12 valve cummins, but then I got worried about weight so figured I would go with a 4bt. I'm not really doing it to be different, in fact I wish more people did this conversion so I could have someone to ask questions, its just what my wife would like and I think it will be kinda cool.

[stinsonj]

I also have some parts for sale if anyone is needing anything. Everything is in Canby, Oregon and I assume is original.

Engine w/tranny (not running, complete except for carb.)
Driveline
Rear end
brakes
wheels
leaf springs
set of running boards (have holes in them as someone ran exhaust stacks thru them at some point)
grill

[Purcell69]

I will definitely be following along with this one. I think the 4BT will be a bit easier to tuck in there than the 6BT. The added weight and length would be a lot of engineering on your part.

I think you will find that boxing the front frame will do well to give the extra strength needed for Cummins. A hydroboost from an older GM 1 ton will take care of power steering and power brakes and will require less room than a vacuum booster.

With just a little tweaking, the 4BT can be tuned to produce stock 12V Cummins power without losing reliability or giving up much in fuel economy. No need for big injectors etc., just some minor adjustments. If you haven't looked already, check out 4BT Swaps.com. There is lots of good info to be found there. I have not done one myself, but my next project will be a 4BT powered truck.

Also, the 10 Bolt rear end may be the minimum for that engine. Consider a 12 Bolt if you want GM, or possibly a 9" Ford with re drilled hubs to match your wheels. The 4BT has a lot of torque that will be passed along to your gears and axles.

Looking forward to this one!!

-Joe

[stinsonj]

I was thinking of boxing the frame but once I found out that the 4bt is really only about 100 lbs heavier than the stock 235, I wasn't really worried about it. You still think its necessary? I might just end up boxing it anyways since I really enjoy welding

You are probably right on the GM 10 bolt. I'm sure that 12 bolts are pretty easy to find too so ill probably just go with one of those. Wont need to re drill the hubs since I'm not going to keep the stock wheels. I'm not certain, but since ill be going with 4-wheel disc brakes, I'm betting that the stock wheels wont fit.

[Purcell69]

Even though the weight of the two engines is similar, the torque output is significantly greater. This load is transmitted to the frame, and while the metal in the early frames is thicker than a modern frame, it can be more brittle. Boxing plates is just an insurance policy against problems.

Disc brakes all around is not a bad way to go. It is good that you are thinking ahead to wheel clearances for the disc brake conversion. There should be plenty out there that will bolt up to the 12 Bolt rear end.

-Joe

[Chance48]

Very nice. I'm a diesel nut. I own three dodge diesels arm, lol. 2 are work trucks but still.....CUMMINS baby! When I was younger all I wanted was a big bad v-8 powered hot rod. Now, a lil older, give me a diesel. Insane power can be had from that lil diesel if you wanted it.

I'm about to post up my build thread, and it will be a diesel build aswell. Good luck, I'll be in tune to this one.

Chance

[stinsonj]

Worked on it for a couple of hours last night. Removed the parking break assembly, what I think is a heat shield for the engine?, and a couple of misc. brackets. Just need to remove the transmission cross member, scrape some crud off, and the sandblasting can begin. Probably hit it with a wire wheel first where its easy to get to. After sandblasting, ill box the front of the frame, then primer and paint the entire frame just for protection from further rusting. After that, ill start working on fixing rust on the cab which should take me awhile since it will be my first time attempting anything of that nature.

After the rust is patched, it will be a super slow process to finish since we want to spread out the approximately $15k im estimating on spending on the thing over a lengthy period of time.

[74project]

good read....awesome build


http://www.stanceworks.com/2015/02/f...y-3100-pickup/

[YukonXL04]

Originally Posted by 74project

good read....awesome build


http://www.stanceworks.com/2015/02/f...y-3100-pickup/

No kidding. I just wish there were better photos if how it was done.

[stinsonj]

So after a long day on sunday with a wire wheel and sandblaster, the frame is ready for paint. Even though we spent a fair amount of time on it, there is still some light surface rust on most areas and even more rust in some areas that were hard to get to. Im trying to decide if we should go with Rustoleum "Rusty Metal Primer" or their "Clean Metal Primer". From reading the descriptions on their applications, it seems that our frame kinda falls in between rusty and clean. Any thoughts? In the end, we will probably go with a flat black overcoat of some kind.

[ETraugott]

I see alot of guys use por15. May look into that. I know eastwood sells it, im sure other places do too.

[ETraugott]

Also this truck should get great fuel milage with no load. I seen a guy with one in a 96 ext cab chevy dually who claimed to get 38 mpg. Been wanting to put obe in my wifes 94 k1500. Cant wait to see your final outcome.

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by ETraugott

I see alot of guys use por15. May look into that. I know eastwood sells it, im sure other places do too.

POR-15 is good stuff with the proper prep, but it will need a top coat, as POR-15 is not UV stable. The black will go to a chalky gray over time, even on a frame that is not in direct sun light. I used the stuff on my '57 frame before I swapped it out and went to the Dodge frame.

For the Dodge frame, I used Eastwood's 2k chassis black, over their black primer. I sanded and blasted the frame, then sprayed it with Eastwood's Afterblast. The stuff seems to be pretty tough and no issues with UV. I'm saving the POR-15 for use where it will be out of sight or topcoated with another product.

One quart of primer and one quart of top coat is all you should need to paint the frame, with some of each left over.

-Joe

[84blaze]

All these diesel builds are making me happy.

[stinsonj]

Its been a slow process, but finally got the frame completely painted. Its been super cold for the past week so we had some issues but im fairly happy with the results. Now its time to move the frame out and bring in the cab to start working on rust issues. Any recommendations on patch panel manufacturers/vendors? All 4 cab corners are going to need to be replaced. The floor pan isn't in that bad of shape, but I might replace it anyways.

[stinsonj]

Welded in some boxing plates for the front of the frame yesterday. Think it looks pretty decent. Ill have to repaint the frame around the welds as the heat ruined it.

I was planning on ordering stock leaf springs for all 4 corners, thinking that it should work out since the 4bt is only about 100# heavier than the stock engine. But now, after realizing how much a decent 4bt is compared to a 6bt, im wondering if theres any way I could make the heavier engine work. I would obviously have to make sure it fits, but the weight is more of an issue in my mind. If I went with the heavier 6bt, anyone have an idea on what kind of springs I could use that would handle the weight? Or should I just pay the extra money to get a 4bt as planned?

[stinsonj]

Another thing that's on my mind is the rust issues. The cab corners all have a fair amount of rust through but im hesitant to repair them because not only do I have no experience in repairing sheet metal, but also, I want to keep the patina look which Im assuming will be difficult with brand new cab corners. If there is a way to patch them from the inside to prevent water from entering the cab, that's probably what I will do. I know ill have to repair rust in the floorboards but at least that wont affect the overall look of the truck.

[Purcell69]

The 4bt will be easier to fix over the 6 cylinder and will have more than enough power to get you where you are going. If you want the power of the six, the 4bt can be tweaked to make power beyond the stock first Gen 6 cylinder Dodge/Cummins engines. Yes, the four and six cylinder engines have a similar cost, but there is little space in your engine compartment, especially when you add things like inter coolers, transmission coolers, and climate control equipment.

-Joe

[stinsonj]

Been a long time since I have posted on here, mainly due to being sent to Florida to work on a project. That project has since been delayed so now were back at it.

Started rebuilding the stock front axle last weekend with a Kingpin kit I found online but the kingpins themselves are stuck in the spindles and wont budge. Probably find a machine shop and have them pressed out.

Also, just ordered $3k worth of parts today, mostly from performanceonline.com, which include:

Rack and pinion power steering kit
Front power disc brake conversion kit
All new leaf springs with sway bars

I found a couple S-10 rear axles with disc brakes that measure about the right with that im going to look at this weekend. Can get them for super cheap so that's nice. Also found a guy out of Ohio that has "hundreds" of 4bt's in various conditions for sale, so once I get the truck rolling, ill probably give him a call and have one ordered. Just have to figure out what tranny I want to use.

[Purcell69]

Good to see you are back at it. I just noticed a typo on my reply above. It should have read "easier to fit" not fix. The guy you found selling 4BTs has been buying them up and selling them off on eBay for quite a while now. I've never had any experience with him, so I can't offer an opinion there. I think you will find the 4BT will be a better option and not require a lot of sheet metal redesign of your cab.

-Joe

[stinsonj]

Just ordered a 4bt from Chad McKinney out of Ohio. Its a p-pump variant with 130hp. According to Chad, it shows little signs of wear, however it will need to be repainted as it is a gross yellow color. Should ship out tomorrow so if I'm lucky, it will arrive later next week. Not really in a hurry though since the leaf springs I ordered take anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks before they are ready for delivery, and I want the frame rolling before working on mounting the motor.