Detroit Locker

[Erl]

Is anyone running a Detroit Locker in their front Dana 44? Would a standard clutch type Posi be better for limited off-road time. I have a clutch type Posi in the rear Dana 60, since it runs on the street most of the time. I use 4 wheel drive only when I get stuck or heavy snow conditions, but want the best traction possible.

[JIMs70GMC]

stock tires? Your steering manners will change completely and this will put stress on the front u-joints. I'd say use the same traction device as you have in the rear, which I'll assume is a power lock or use a trac loc which is slightly less agressive than the power lock.

[784X4GUY]

Id like to run the detroit in my frontend. How would the steering change guys? Later Mike

[LONGHAIR]

You really don't want a Detroit Locker in the front. It would be very twitchy/quirky in the steering. It is also very hard on the short side (pass) axle. You are probably better off with a clutch type or gear driven (Torsen) and maybe a better tire?
Also, it is far better to use your 4 wheel drive before you get stuck .......and you may not.

[784X4GUY]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

You really don't want a Detroit Locker in the front. It would be very twitchy/quirky in the steering. It is also very hard on the short side (pass) axle. You are probably better off with a clutch type or gear driven (Torsen) and maybe a better tire?
Also, it is far better to use your 4 wheel drive before you get stuck .......and you may not.

So it pretty much would be dangerous...Later Mike

[LONGHAIR]

Personally I am not a big fan of "posi" units in front axles...in most street driven trucks. A good posi unit or even a locker in the rear and a decent set of tires (fitting the application...mud, sand, rocks) will suffice in most cases.
The gear type (Torsen) would be my first choice if more was needed.
Higher horsepower and larger tires will magnify the problems.

[JIMs70GMC]

To add, the only time you'd really need a front locker is when one of the front tires is always in the air.

[784X4GUY]

Or if one tire is on a surface that can't get traction and the other is...Later Mike

[Mudder]

I always thought that if I added a locker to the front it would be a air locker.

[784X4GUY]

Originally Posted by Mudder67

I always thought that if I added a locker to the front it would be a air locker.

Heck yeah that would be my first choice, but I also heard the detroit is alot less expensive than the ARB? Later Mike

[LONGHAIR]

The rear is still pushing.........

[4x4Poet]

I agree with the advice given. For snow and icy road manners, ratcheting full-lockers like the Detroit, EZ Locker, etc. are downright dangerous installed in front axles. Among full lockers, only selectable lockers can provide safe snow road manners in the front pumpkin.

Clutch-pack limited slips are on the borderline. Some clutch-pack LSs have a soft enough setting on the clutch-packs to not show bad manners. They also don't provide much traction assistance to the slipping tire, either.

Auburn Gear makes the smooth actuating self-named Auburn Gear that uses cone clutches instead of "positive clutches." The cone clutches provide smoother engagement and disengagement than the positive clutches that most limited slips have (Trac-Loc, Power-Loc, Posi-Trac, etc.). It's a great unit for someone who doesn't need a full-locker. Snow road travel prolly mandates using the lighter actuation setting avialable.

A year to two ago Auburn Gear debuted a new differential they call the Ected. I think this diff has promise as a compromise between full lockup and smooth, safe operation that would work in a front axle. I would call Auburn first to make sure the Ected is safe for front axle apps. It "sounds even better than the Auburn Gear since it comes close to full-lockup without the bad side effects. But I mention that only from the literature and a few reports I've read.

TracTech makes the trusty TrueTrac, which is the "Helical" all-gear design mention already. The TrueTrac has the advantage of no friction parts (clutches) to wear out. It will conceivably last as long as an open diff. But it does nothing for a tire with zero traction, such as on ice or up in the air. Both tires must have some traction for the TrueTrac to assist the wheel with less traction. One can "fool" the TrueTrac into thinking a spinning wheel has traction by applying the brakes (or e-brake for rear apps), but that works only temporarily. Great unit, otherwise. Smooth enough for the front. I have one in my TravelAll's rear D60. Again, snow road travel mandates using the lighter actuation setting available.

In competition with the selectable lockers that change from open to full-lock, Trac-Tech offers the Electrac that operates as a TrueTrac when "unlocked" and as a spool when locked. So, instead of having a open or locked diff like all the other selectable lockers, the Electrac provides a "limited slip" TrueTrac when unlocked for better mud, snow, and ice traction on road. Prolly the best locker available for tires under 36-38 inches. Big tires need the E-Locker, ARB, or Detroit (off-road only in front). The Electrac does have a switch outside the cover that is skid plate protected, but hardcore wheelers question whether the switch is vulnerable to being ripped off by a rock, log, etc. Even if it is ripped off, one could carry a spare stock cover to replace the Electrac cover and drive home. Radical rock crawlers could prolly use the Electrac, but extreme boulder crawlers might not. The outside switch isn't an issue for on-road travel. Prolly not for off-road snow or mud wheeling either. Something to keep in mind.

While pulling up links for this post, I noticed TracTech has announced an upcoming Progressive Torque Differential (PTD). Sounds intriging. I'm off to download the PDF.

[plumbcut]

not to over simplify- but I think none of them are "dangerous" ... if you are an experienced driver you will have no problem. A posi isnt really going to do a whole lot for you in ice or snow because you're not going to be on the throttle hard. If the open carrier isnt cutting it- go with a detroit locker.. Yeah its going to LOCK the front tires together. but only when the hubs are locked will it do anything- and you'll be on snow or ice so the little bit of binding due to the different turning radius's of the front tires is really not an issue. if you leave it in 4WD with the hubs locked when its dry, and try turning on pavement- umm yeah its going to stress some parts. Throwing the tranny in reverse when you're going 65mph is also going to stress some parts. Its called being a conscious driver..

so if youre building for a specific type of terrain and driving (offroad racing or mud bogging or something) then you would put a little more thought into what type of carrier you'd run- it would be purpose built.... for a driver that you want better traction with in the crappy weather- go with a locker or just leave it! theres my $0.02

pc

[LONGHAIR]

plumbcut.......You have way over simplified it. This is one of those "If you have to ask..." type of questions. The locker in the front is a bad idea (except for the purpose built trucks you mentioned) and I would still question it's use with a 1/2 ton axle/big tire combination. Driving experience has nothing to do with something like this. You would have to gain some "new" experience with it. Many people have to "re-learn" their driving technique with a locker in the rear...the front it even worse.

I had a 74 3/4 ton Chevy 4x4 back in the early 80s. It had a 454, 4 speed, 4.56 gears and 17/40/15 Regul Trail Blazer tires. This truck had a Detroit Locker in the rear and a Gleason Torsen in the front. My friends and I were pretty big into "wheeling" back then and we got into some bad stuff. I broke the passenger side axle (at the joint) 2 different times. Fortunately I could still drive it home because the axle itself doesn't support any weight. This truck did as well as most of the other's in 2 wheel drive because of the locker (rear). I never used the front drive in the snow...it wasn't necessary.

Part of the "dangerous" aspect is that many people act is if their 4x4s are invinceable in bad weather and think that these traction aids make it better....not necessarily so.

[784X4GUY]

Thanks all you guys for clearing that up for me, yall did an excellent job...Thanks Mike

[72k5]

To answer the original post, if you are going to add anything but a selectable locker to the front, you might as well make it a Detroit. The on-pavement manners will go to hell unless you have the absolute minimum of traction (then it hardly matters anyway).

I have a Torsen in the front of mine, and have had a couple of plate posi units and a Detroit in the rear at various times. 4HI is not an option on a snowy road until the rears have so little traction that they start to spin. Any more traction than that and it gets too wild with the self-initiated direction changes.

There was another good post where I ended up writing a thesis on traction adding diffs that might be of interest to someone wondering about these issues.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ght=setup+snow

[BLAZERMAN]

I run a detroit locker in the rear with a trac loc in the front of my 69 1 ton, it works great in deep mud but I learned to leave it parked in the winter.

[784X4GUY]

So when the frontend is locked it just pushes and pulls it around making it dangerous or what? Later Mike

[JIMs70GMC]

You get a plowing effect vice the differentiation needed to make the turn, i.e. one tire has to turn faster than the other through the turn. But under less than ideal traction conditions they stay locked and want to go straight.

[4x4Poet]

Good 4x4 drivers do learn to "adjust" drive with a ratcheting locker or positive clutch pack limited slip, but I personally don't think there is a good enough driver out there who can "adjust" for a locker's or some LS's bad manners on black ice at high speed or even around 40-50mph. I have found that my 4x4 burbs do better than unladen pickups on snow covered roads because of the extra roof weight, but not well enough to run a ratcheting locker up front thru a Montana Winter. Just my 2¢.

[LONGHAIR]

784X4GUY, the simplest way to explain it is that the locker can "let go" of the power being applied.....and when it does the reaction is instant. Now, in the back of a LWB truck about all you get is a slight clunk/jerk (assuming dry road normal driving) It does this by unlocking to allow the differential action, but this only happens if you let the truck coast. If you stay in the throttle, which keeps a load on the unit, it doesn't unlock. This can cause the inner tire to squeal a bit, but (more importantly) you are steering based on this load.........now if you ease up on the throttle a bit the thing may unlock. Then the rear is not pushing the same so you will have to correct the steering. The shorter/lighter the vehicle the more reaction you get.

In snow or ice the situation is worse. In an open differential vehicle you may have more trouble moving from a standing start (which is why many people think a locker or any posi for that matter) but once you are moving the same applies, you are only spinning one wheel. Which means the other is holding you on the road by not spinning. By having both rear wheels spinning you have no control at all. Something as simple as the road crown could slide you right into the ditch.

This is all magnified a lot by being applied to the front axle. Having all of this going on 8' to 11' behind the steering requires some adaptation to your driving skill...........now, imagine trying to deal with it on the front wheels?

[Dean]

My green K20 has the factory posi in the front and it works great. I would recommend it. You do not want to put it in 4x4 on dry pavement though.

[LONGHAIR]

I've never seen a "factory posi" in the front..........

[784X4GUY]

Id really like to get a locker for the front of my truck, but don't know if I need a Detroit. Id like to have a serious setup for when I go offroad. What do recommend LONGHAIR? Later Mike

[drink2mny]

I run a power lock in the front 60 on my blazer.A detroit in the 14bolt out back
When in 4wd the steering lags a little. Pretty weird feeling and hard to get adjusted to it.
Wide tires and any traction device in snow or wet pavement is trouble waiting to happen.
But it is a to each their own on wht they like and have.

I will tell you if i were to get another 4x4 I wouldn't put any locker/posi other than one of those electric or arb/cable type. So it could be unlocked for daily driving on highways in 4wd..

It scares people to see a lifted rig on 38's turn a corner and watch it slip towards them

But this is why I don't daily drive my blazer.
Just the 2wd '72 with some studded snows and sandbags..I can go just about anywhere on the roads