Loss of electrical

[PHOENIX]

OK well the ignition switch didn't solve my problem.

I was driving to work today and lost electrical again. Engine died, instrument panel went dead, no signals, no hazards.

I do not know if the headlights or brake lights were working. I was in the middle of the street so I walked off to the side to be safe. I waited for a tow truck. Insurance covers the towing . When I got home I turned the key and had power again. So now its going to be harder to figure out whats going on. I wish it would stay dead so I can trace it down.

Battery is good. The problem is intermittent and seems completely random (sometimes dead in the morning, sometimes dies while taking off, sometimes dies while stopping, sometimes dies while driving = random).

I plan to look for loose connections. I was going to start from the battery and go from there.
Any tips or ideas what may cause this?

[Captkaos]

Ignition Module? Is this your 83 in your sig? Does it still have ESC hooked up?

[PHOENIX]

Yes 1983 C10.

No ESC hooked up.
Distributor is a MSD, a few years old.

Would ignition module stop the hazards from working?

This is the ignition module I have:

MSD on left, stock on right:


Ignore note:

[JCampbell]

Check the connection @ the starter. Had a similar situation happen on my dually a few months back and that was the culprit.

[impalamark]

I'm coming in on this late and may be off base but
check grounds and neg battery cable thoroughly
Ive seen them look good on the ends and corrode in the middle
if the battery is good and you're losing all systems I'd suspect
intermittent ground issues
good luck
Mark

[old Rusty C10]

prolly something in the solenoid of the starter wire burned or shorting ...

[PHOENIX]

The problem is not happening right now so its harder to diagnose.

I checked all wiring at solenoid. Everything appears OK.
I removed the started and disassembled the solenoid. Everything appears OK.

With the truck running you can pull the negative battery cable and still have running engine and full gauges. This leads me to believe its not an alternator problem.

All battery and ground connections appear to be OK. The ground wire travels from the battery directly to the alternator bracket and is attached with a star washer, bolt and nut. The positive battery cable is cleanly routed from the battery to the starter. No heat damage or cuts. Connections are solid. These cables are not more than 5 years old and appear to be in excellent condition inside and out.

With the truck running you can pull the distributor power (BAT) wire and the engine dies, but I still have water temp and volts gauges reading. This leads me to believe its not a ignition module problem because when the truck dies I also lose all gauges.

What are the white plastic pieces on the wires coming from the starter?
They appear to be a fuses of some sort. Could they have a short or something?

The braided ground strap from the rear of the engine to the firewall is pretty caked in grease.
Could that cause some grounding problem?

Connections at fuse block and wiring harness appear to be OK, but its not easy to tell.

What else to check, what could it be? I'm stuck and not happy

[old Rusty C10]

any way you can take a pic of these plastic things?

LOL Eddie , after reading the last line in blue, and that thread in general discussion... which one of the seven dwarfs are ya then????

sorry couldnt resist

[72lb4x4]

Since it seems to die when its running and it doesn't have flashers, etc. I would be looking for a loose connection between the junction of the alternator and battery, and the feed to the ignition/accessories. This is typically a big red wire.

In the electrical section you can find a nice pic of the wiring for a 67-72, which will be similar if you don't have a diagram. start at the battery in the diagram, follow it back to the junction, and start looking for something loose.

I don't see the starter/solenoid wiring having an impact with the symptoms described.

[asphaltburner]

Yo! 72lb4x4 is correct, this is not a loss of power to small accessories, ignition, or distributor. You'ne got a major ground loss, power loss, or short circuit. Unfortunately it's intermittent, and a newer truck, so you've got alot of electrical to trace and secure. Grounds are always a problem in GM products, so check those first. Best of luck, Todd.

[72lb4x4]

I think you misunderstood what I meant. It is (in my small mind) a loss of power (or ground) to small things. The loss of flashers indicates that.

Since the ground needed to keep it running is the big ground to the engine, that should be easy to check and fix.

Its unlikely to be a short, since there's no smoke and its intermittent.

Since he's losing both battery power and alternator power, its a matter of finding where they come together on a newer truck and tracing from there towards the interior of the truck.

[Square84]

ive been having same issue and got it figured out today i took the starter off and the main power connection was broken inside the solinoid couldn't tell till i removed the back up nut on the stud then the stud just turned freely put on neww solinoid and everything seems fine. btw those white things are fuseable links and the can go bad you can test them by measureing voltage on either side of the link and see what the drop in voltage is.

[72lb4x4]

I have to correct myself...

I doubt that its a ground issue since there are 2 circuits. One for the battery and one for the alternator. The 2 circuits are grounded to the same point.

Evidence of this is that you can, but shouldn't disconnect the battery, or alternator while the engine is running and it won't quit.

Since the engine is running and stops, both the alt and battery would have to lose their grounds at the same time.

Square84: How does a bad solenoid make a running engine quit if its bad? Also, how does it make the turn signals and flashers stop working?

[Square84]

Originally Posted by 72lb4x4

I have to correct myself...

I doubt that its a ground issue since there are 2 circuits. One for the battery and one for the alternator. The 2 circuits are grounded to the same point.

Evidence of this is that you can, but shouldn't disconnect the battery, or alternator while the engine is running and it won't quit.

Since the engine is running and stops, both the alt and battery would have to lose their grounds at the same time.

Square84: How does a bad solenoid make a running engine quit if its bad? Also, how does it make the turn signals and flashers stop working?

mine lost connection at the main power terminal on solenoid. the alternator wire and positive battery cable both attach here. the truck was completely dead no power door locks no dome light no gauges not even that buzzing sound when you put your key in. pulled the battery and it had 13.20 volts plenty to start the truck but it acted like there was no battery in the truck? put on a new starter that the terminal was good and now every thing works great. if you notice your positive battery cable runs from the battery to the starter and thats it so the juice has to flow thru the starter solenoid. as far as killing the engine not real sure how or why but on my truck that was the problem.

[PHOENIX]

OK I removed the alternator and checked the wires and connections. The alternator plug (2-wire plug) looks pretty bad. I'm heading to the store now to get a replacement plug to wire up.

The alternator has 3 wires:
- one battery wire that connects directly to a stud. The stud nut (the one that holds the stud to the alternator, not the nut for the wire eyelet) was a bit loose. I was able to tighten it about 3 turns.
- one larger red wire (in plug) that has power, power in to alt. I assume.
- one smaller black wire (in plug) that doesn't have power (with alternator removed), this is output I assume.

I don't think a bad connection at this alternator plug would cause my problem though. With this plug, unplugged from the alternator I still have working gauges.

There is a 14ga pink wiring coming out of the wire harness at the rear of the engine, below and behind the distributor. The pink wire went into a 2-to-1 wire plug, but only had one wire in and one wire out. One of the plug terminals was not being used. The out wire goes to the distributor "bat" terminal. This plug didn't look to healthy so I cut it out and attached the wires directly.

Edit (picture added):
Old alternator plug on top, new on bottom.

[PHOENIX]

BTW this truck originally had a ESC system, but I removed it years ago. Some wires still go into the firewall. The ESC plug is just dangling from the harness. I don't see how this could be related as its not hooked to the distributor. Just thought I'd mention it since I was asked about the ESC.

[PHOENIX]

Anywhere else to check besides the fuse block?
I checked around there a little bit, guess I need to dig into it more around the fuse block.

Originally Posted by old Rusty C10

after reading the last line in blue, and that thread in general discussion... which one of the seven dwarfs are ya then????

sorry couldnt resist

at first I didn't know what you were talking about, then I remembered.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ighlight=dwarf

[PHOENIX]

Originally Posted by Square84

btw those white things are fuseable links and the can go bad you can test them by measureing voltage on either side of the link and see what the drop in voltage is.

When a fuseable link goes bad doesn't it melt and turn somewhat gummy?
These are different than the other fuseable link on the truck near the power distribution block.
If they are working properly there will be no voltage drop?
Can I cut these out and replace them with an inline maxi-fuse or something?

[Captkaos]

If ESC is unhooked, it isn't your issue. I just saw 1983 and thought that. It won't be necessarily be an ignition problem if you are loosing power everywhere.

Most of the time a fusible link will melt, but you can check across it to verify.

I just skimmed over everything, but you have check both your ground and power wires for wear and made sure all connections are tight.
I would think your problem would have to be between the battery/alternator and fuse/distribution blocks if it is like you unhooked all the power...