Belt Help!!!!!!

[Duck.E]

I have an alternator belt that won't stop squealing. I changed belts and no difference, changed alternators and no difference and I even sanded the pulley grooves with a medium grit and no difference. I even aligned them the best I could and still yet again no difference. It only squeals at idle when I rev it hard or hit the gas hard on driving. Any input would be appreciated.

[geezer#99]

Find a belt that fits's deeper in the pulley. The one on the water pump looks to be sitting a bit high.

[Duck.E]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Find a belt that fits's deeper in the pulley. The one on the water pump looks to be sitting a bit high.

Both belts are almost flush with pulley itself and I don't have any problems with the belt that that goes from pump to crankshaft to power steering. Its the alternator for sure.

[Stocker]

Have you made sure the vee-angle of the belt exactly matches the vee-angle of the pulley grooves? My only other thought is that in spite of your efforts, the pulleys might not be in perfect alignment. Can't tell by the pic, sorry.

Have you tried rubbing a bar of soap against the belt with the engine idling? It won't fix the problem but will often stop the squealing for a short time. Just one more way of proving that's the problem belt. Usual disclaimer about keeping clothing and fingers away from moving fans, belts, & pulleys....

[Duck.E]

Originally Posted by Stocker

Have you made sure the vee-angle of the belt exactly matches the vee-angle of the pulley grooves? My only other thought is that in spite of your efforts, the pulleys might not be in perfect alignment. Can't tell by the pic, sorry.

Have you tried rubbing a bar of soap against the belt with the engine idling? It won't fix the problem but will often stop the squealing for a short time. Just one more way of proving that's the problem belt. Usual disclaimer about keeping clothing and fingers away from moving fans, belts, & pulleys....

The angles match pretty close, may not be exact. At first it was way off but after shimming and moving got them close with straight edge. Ill give the soap a shot tomorrow. Other than that idk.

[PanelDeland]

When you look at v belts,check that the angles are the same in this area \V/ .There are differences in belts and the actual grip from a V belt comes from the area between the slash and the v.If those angles don't match,you will have very little grip area and squealing will occur.Belts should not have to be extremely tight to grip but should be snug.Debris in the bottom of the pulley,not allowing the v area to seat down into the groove well will also cause this.I see the belt is notched on the back side which is pretty common with industrial belts which have tons of variations.Belts should also be either flush or just under the top of the pulley foor full contact thru the v area. Just some inights I have learned over the years.

[luvbowties]

Originally Posted by Duck.E

I have an alternator belt that won't stop squealing. I changed belts and no difference, changed alternators and no difference and I even sanded the pulley grooves with a medium grit and no difference. I even aligned them the best I could and still yet again no difference. It only squeals at idle when I rev it hard or hit the gas hard on driving. Any input would be appreciated.

I'd think a slightly longer belt would allow alter to swing outward and downward, and give a bit more contact-distance on alter-pulley's diam. Also, use a well-known-for-quality belt. One good, usable belt that costs $18 is better to have than nine, cheap, $2-belts--same total cost--that aren't usable due to unlimited stretching and squealing. Remember to choose one that conforms to good, previous suggestions as well.
Sam

[Stocker]

Originally Posted by PanelDeland

When you look at v belts,check that the angles are the same in this area \V/ .There are differences in belts and the actual grip from a V belt comes from the area between the slash and the v.If those angles don't match,you will have very little grip area and squealing will occur.

This is the point I was trying to make in my first sentence above.... I don't think he understood what I was getting at.
Thanks for explaining it much better than I did!

[Lee H]

Originally Posted by PanelDeland

When you look at v belts,check that the angles are the same in this area \V/ .There are differences in belts and the actual grip from a V belt comes from the area between the slash and the v.If those angles don't match,you will have very little grip area and squealing will occur.

The pulley may have the contact surface worn to the point where the belt will no longer have full contact with the pulley.

[Duck.E]

Originally Posted by PanelDeland

When you look at v belts,check that the angles are the same in this area \V/ .There are differences in belts and the actual grip from a V belt comes from the area between the slash and the v.If those angles don't match,you will have very little grip area and squealing will occur.Belts should not have to be extremely tight to grip but should be snug.Debris in the bottom of the pulley,not allowing the v area to seat down into the groove well will also cause this.I see the belt is notched on the back side which is pretty common with industrial belts which have tons of variations.Belts should also be either flush or just under the top of the pulley foor full contact thru the v area. Just some inights I have learned over the years.

After looking at it closer the belt does sit too high, it's not flush at all and I can see where the belt is hitting in the groove and there is still untouched pulley deep in the groove. I have both the belt u see in the pic and a cogged one on the inside, but again, both sit too high. I'll have to get another one with a smaller V.

[derotoreut]

I have a serpentine set up, but had similar problem with belt squeal. Thought I had a good belt with Dayton. Chased the problem for a while. Finally someone told me to ditch the Dayton and go with a NAPA gold belt. Problem solved. I know it's not the same as yours, but just a thought. Good luck.

[Duck.E]

Originally Posted by derotoreut

I have a serpentine set up, but had similar problem with belt squeal. Thought I had a good belt with Dayton. Chased the problem for a while. Finally someone told me to ditch the Dayton and go with a NAPA gold belt. Problem solved. I know it's not the same as yours, but just a thought. Good luck.

I have tried long and short belts, napa, gates, dayco, generic, loose and tight and no change at all. I'm about to throw in the towel. Only thing I can think of is a different setup, maybe go to a driverside mount instead of passenger.

[Stocker]

Originally Posted by Duck.E

After looking at it closer the belt does sit too high, it's not flush at all and I can see where the belt is hitting in the groove and there is still untouched pulley deep in the groove. I have both the belt u see in the pic and a cogged one on the inside, but again, both sit too high. I'll have to get another one with a smaller V.

Originally Posted by Duck.E

I have tried long and short belts, napa, gates, dayco, generic, loose and tight and no change at all. I'm about to throw in the towel. Only thing I can think of is a different setup, maybe go to a driverside mount instead of passenger.

But you said the belt doesn't fit the pulley. Good chance that's your problem. Are you not able to find one with the correct width and angle?

How does the belt fit the waterpump pulley? If it's good, you might have the right belt, but need a different pulley on the alternator.

[vidman]

Whats The Number On The Belt ???

[Duck.E]

Originally Posted by Stocker

But you said the belt doesn't fit the pulley. Good chance that's your problem. Are you not able to find one with the correct width and angle?

How does the belt fit the waterpump pulley? If it's good, you might have the right belt, but need a different pulley on the alternator.

Belt fits the water pump fine, it just seems to stick up out of the alternator pulley to much, its not flush. I tried a smaller width same problem. My next step might be a different pulley, I read someone used a Z28 deep groove pulley and that solved their problem.

[Duck.E]

Originally Posted by vidman

Whats The Number On The Belt ???

Gates XL 7315.

[geezer#99]

Have you tried belt dressing?
You might need to go to a double belt pulley set up.

http://prestone.com/enca/node/437

[RichardJ]

You say it is the alternator belt slipping for sure. How do you know that? Is the alternator belt slipping on the alternator or on the water pump?

I'm not saying it's not, I just would like to know how you are making that determination.

The two grooves on the water pump pulley appear to be different diameters. Are the two grooves on the crank pulley also different diameters?
If the two grooves on the crank pulley are the same diameters, both belts will be traveling at the same speed. That means that at least one belt will be slipping on the water pump pulley at all times. One belt is on the tension side of the drive pulley, the other belt is on the take-up side of the drive pulley. That can have an effect on what you're hearing and when.

There are several things that may be in play here. Pulley diameter matchup and degrees of contact on the circumference of the pulleys.
Better pictures of all the pulley positions would be helpful.

[litew8]

How tight did you put it on? You should pull it tight, then slightly let up so there is a small amount of sag on the either the top or bottom, then tighten your bolt.

[Stocker]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Have you tried belt dressing?

I tried belt dressing and all it did was made a sticky mess. Never again. I emptied the can killing carpenter bees, so it wasn't a total loss.

[swamp rat]

Take the belts off and fire up the truck and see if the squeal stops, then put 1 belt on and try again, then take that belt off and install the other belt..

One time i had a belt squeal that was driving me crazy trying to figure it out, it turned out that the manifold vacuum port for the tranny was left unplugged and the tranny vacuum tube was hooked to the carb, it was a vacuum leak that would whistle when the engine was revved, something to consider?

[Duck.E]

Originally Posted by litew8

How tight did you put it on? You should pull it tight, then slightly let up so there is a small amount of sag on the either the top or bottom, then tighten your bolt.

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Have you tried belt dressing?
You might need to go to a double belt pulley set up.

http://prestone.com/enca/node/437

I have not tried belt dressing yet and the belt is not super tight, I backed it off a little.

[Duck.E]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Take the belts off and fire up the truck and see if the squeal stops, then put 1 belt on and try again, then take that belt off and install the other belt..

One time i had a belt squeal that was driving me crazy trying to figure it out, it turned out that the manifold vacuum port for the tranny was left unplugged and the tranny vacuum tube was hooked to the carb, it was a vacuum leak that would whistle when the engine was revved, something to consider?

I haven't taken both belts off yet, but when I remove the belt from the water pump to alternator, there is no more squeal.

[Duck.E]

Originally Posted by RichardJ

You say it is the alternator belt slipping for sure. How do you know that? Is the alternator belt slipping on the alternator or on the water pump?

I'm not saying it's not, I just would like to know how you are making that determination.

The two grooves on the water pump pulley appear to be different diameters. Are the two grooves on the crank pulley also different diameters?
If the two grooves on the crank pulley are the same diameters, both belts will be traveling at the same speed. That means that at least one belt will be slipping on the water pump pulley at all times. One belt is on the tension side of the drive pulley, the other belt is on the take-up side of the drive pulley. That can have an effect on what you're hearing and when.

There are several things that may be in play here. Pulley diameter matchup and degrees of contact on the circumference of the pulleys.
Better pictures of all the pulley positions would be helpful.

After looking at the water pump pulley the groove that the alternator belt is on is about 1/16 smaller then the other groove on the water pump pulley. I don't know that the belt is slipping on the alternator pulley for sure, it could be the water pump pulley. I just assumed it was the alternator pulley. As far as the crank pulley grooves go, they appear to be the same, but only one groove is being used on the crank pulley. To me it looks like the belt sits to high on the alternator pulley and isn't flush, but I put one on there that was and it still squealed. I tried to take a better pic of set up. See below.

[litew8]

Loosen the belt as much as you can to see if/when it stops squealing, then gradually tighten up to where it starts squealing again. I'm guessing you know it isn't a bearing sound.