Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Sure would be nice if the instructions:
https://documents.holley.com/199r11655.pdf


Listed the part number for the spacers for the different transmissions. It was by dumb luck that I discovered the 11/16 spacer for the 4L60 is PN 71223012HKR. I figured they might be included with the crossmember. But, for $30+ I'll be machining my own spacer.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

The part number listings for the crossmembers are currently incomplete and only the base crossmember as used for the T56 is listed. Other crossmember part numbers will be getting released that include the spacers for specific transmissions in them, which is why the instruction sheet reads "Depending on which crossmember you order, there will be a supplied spacer for your specific transmission". I know it is slightly confusing at this time for those of you on the user end of things as the final complete system landscape is not yet visible. If you can machine the spacer yourself and save the $30+, I think that's great.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Hey Todd I asked these questions in post 71
-----------
I have a question about which Holley pan will be even with or above the engine crossmember? 302-2 or 302-3 ... what would be the main differences in the pans?

I also notice the recommended bolt kit for the engine mounts 71223015HKR says they are 150mm long and the recommended bolts according to the instructions are 140mm long. which is correct?
---------------

I think I have figured out the pans, but what gives with the 10mm difference in bolt length?

I had to read the product listing on the Holley website to see what you were referring to. The140mm call-out is something that was carried over from previous applications that were listed before the Hooker Blackheart bolt kit existed. Errors and/or inclusions like this happen sometimes from miscommunication between the engineering and marketing departments. You can consider 140mm the minimum length you would need if you were buying the bolts through another supplier.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

toddoky

I see that it was briefly touched on, but will the mounts and transmission crossmember work on a '64 shortbed? I understand maybe the header and exhaust layout might be different.
If unsure - would it be possible that I purchase the mounts and crossmember and if it doesn't work return for a refund?

No, they won’t fit as currently designed. We have a 64 C10 in the engineering lab now that is going through the mock-up and evaluation process and I’ll post the results of that exercise here once it has been completed.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Great - thanks for the response.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

The two other part numbers for the transmission crossmembers for this application were released today. As I mentioned in my answer to post #82 above, the main crossmember assembly is the same in all three crossmembers, the two new ones added today just come pre-packaged with specific spacer blocks that are used to accomodate the transmissions they are listed for use with.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Hey Todd,

Just a little product feedback. I got my BHS511 motor mounts and 71222024HKR Crossmember today. Everything fits great. The only thing strange is the bolts provided for the motor mounts have a very small head. I'm not using them anyway but they are definitely not appropriate for the job. I do appreciate the flange nut and bolt, but the flange on the 3/8-16 x 1 bolts is too small.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/gallery/...lley-bolts.jpg

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

I appreciate you taking the time to provide your feedback. I'm going to have someone look into the specific hardware as I don't believe that is what is called for on the BOM for those brackets. Update: I've confirmed that the type of bolts packaged with the kit you received are not what was intended to be used by Holley engineering and the supplier has been notified that a correction is needed on future production runs.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Thought I would update with some pictures of my test fitting. This is a stock 5.3 as pulled from a 2003 suburban with the truck oil pan and stock AC brackets. I thought it was interesting that the pan and ac compressor fit. I'm not using the factory AC brackets but the main part was still on the motor so I thought I would throw the compressor on to look. You would have to cut out part of the frame for the lines to be able to hook up as I have seen others using the low factory bracket have done.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/gallery/...ompressor1.jpg
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/gallery/...ompressor2.jpg
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/gallery/...ompressor3.jpg
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/gallery/...ompressor4.jpg
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/gallery/...otor-mount.jpg
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/gallery/...tor-mount2.jpg

This last photo shows how I had to cut a tab off the Anchor 3064 rubber mounts. I only had to cut it on the drivers side.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/gallery/...nchor-3064.jpg

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Jason - can you post a picture of the pan in relation to the crossmember?
I'm interested how low, if at all, it hangs below the crossmember.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

I'm kicking myself because I knew someone would ask this. I didn't take any pictures of it and took the engine out right after I took these pictures. It hung down 2 to 2 1/2 inches below the crossmember. It had plenty of clearance everywhere else on the crossmember.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Good to know - need to use a shallow pan.

As a point of reference, the bottom of the Holley 302-2 and 302-3 oil pans reside about 1.5” above the bottom of the engine crossmember when they are used with the Hooker Blackheart engine mounting brackets.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Toddoky,

Can I ask why you kept your oil pan 1.5 inches off the front cross member? The reason I ask this question because when I was running a T56 magnum to keep the engine angle to a minimum I had to trim the upper trailing cross member pass thru hole to clear the drive shaft.
Seems to me the engine could be lower maybe an inch? I am running 6" drop in the back. On my 68 C10 LS I'm running a F-body oil pan. With just using my calibrated eye ball (and a tape measure) the drag link is a bit higher than the top of the cross member.
Not saying your engineers haven't done their home work just asking.

If you are referring to my previous post, you misinterpreted the reference to the 1.5”. That is the amount by which the bottom of the sump area of the Holley 302-2 and 302-3 oil pans tuck up above the bottom surface of the engine crossmember, it is not the distance between the front ends of the oil pans and the top of the cross member. The Hooker Blackheart engine mounting brackets and transmission crossmember keep both the engine oil pan and a 4L60e or 4L80E trans pan tightly tucked to the underside of the frame rails. The bulbous rear extension housing of a T56 transmission dips slightly below the bottom frame plane. If you are lowering a vehicle by 6” and need to trim a stock part of the vehicle to make possible, I would consider that an acceptable requirement. I've added the attached image so those interested can see the height of the front of the engine relative to the steering center link with the Holley 302-2, or 302-3 oil pan being used.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Thanks for the reply. I did misunderstand. Thanks for the for pic.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Ahhh I hope my ctsv pan will clear the front crossmember and center link. Should have my parts next week.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Our son and I are working on a '72 C10 Fleetside that we've completely redone virtually all of the front end on, Wilwood disc brake conversion, RideTech StreetGrip install, and new steering set-up incl. a new Borgeson steering box. Next up will be a new exhaust system once we get a few wiring items straightened out.

Our present set up is a 1st gen 350 w/TH350. Has a carb w/headers. Exhaust comes out directly in front of the rear wheels. Gas tank has been relocated to the rear. Previous owners put Cherry Bomb Extreme's on. The drone is excessive and wears on us after 10 minutes or so.

Our eventual goal is a daily driver. An exhaust system is next up for us. Just found the Blackheart system and we're very interested & looks like this could very well be a potential option for us. Since we have a 1st gen SBC w/headers, we are uncertain if this set up would be compatible with what we have. We are interested in the Borla S-Type exhaust as well, due to presumably having "no drone". We'd prefer to have the exhaust come out the back, but be nearly hidden, perhaps just seeing the tips below the rear bumper.

Do these mufflers have any drone?
How do they compare to the Borla S-Type?
Are you able to purchase this system, if it could work with our 1st gen set-up, without the mufflers that come with it?

Two pics included which are from when we originally purchased the truck in October.

Appreciate any input you all might have!
Ryan D.
Orlando, FL

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Nice truck. I can't offer you a direct answer to your question as I've not evaluated this particular exhaust system installed on a SB Chevy powered C10 at this point in time. I can however say that I personally use the similar Hooker Blackheart 1973-87 C10 exhaust system on my SB powered 1979 Chevy truck and get zero drone from it. I don't know anything about the Borla mufflers you mentioned, so I can't make a comparative assessment of them compared to the mufflers used in the Hooker Blackheart system. The systems are only sold complete with mufflers.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

The truck that was used to develop the parts from the Hooker Blackheart swap system is being assembled as a project vehicle and I thought some of you might be interested in seeing how it comes together. Here's a few shots I took today.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Toddoky,

Can you give me a few details on which engine, accessory setup, headers you guys used for the test mule?

Or did I miss it somewhere in this thread?

Thanks.

The development process is carried out using non-specific LS and LT mock-up engines that I’ve assembled for the purpose. They are used for the foundation from which to cycle through all the transmissions that have been chosen to be accommodated in the swap system and that is followed up by the fitment validation of the accessory drive systems (stock and Holley).
Posted via Mobile Device

The development process is carried out using non-specific LS and LT mock-up engines that I’ve assembled for the purpose. They are used for the foundation from which to cycle through all the transmissions that have been chosen to be accommodated in the swap system and that is followed up by the fitment validation of the accessory drive systems (stock and Holley).
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Are you able to explain to me why this system, or others might not require the use of flexible exhaust joints (i.e. short braided stainless couplings) at or near the headers? Systems with "X" or "H" pipes seem awfully rigid to me. It appears that they might benefit from using some type of flexible couplings. Curious to know. Thanks.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Exhaust bellows are typical only used on hot-end exhaust assemblies where necessary to allow for material expansion between two rigid components located in close proximity to each other (i.e. the exhaust manifold to turbo connections on the back of the Duramax Diesel engines), or to provide a means to deal with the slight mis-alignment of components that is expected to exceed a specific production tolerance. Exhaust system H and Y pipes themselves don't present either of these issues (especially ones used in systems without catalytic converters) and therefore don't require the use of bellows, as long as the fixtures for the components are designed correctly and their manufacturing is carried out as intended.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

So I'm assuming any flex generated in the system by engine torque is insignificant in this application. And without catalytic converters there is no concern of excessive heat that may cause thermal expansion issues. Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Yes, your assumption would be correct. You can use exhaust systems designs of OE manufacturers as an example as to whether bellows are required from an engineering standpoint. You will be hard pressed to find one used in any OE exhaust system other than at a critical or highly constrained hot-end component connection. They don't spend a nickle or dime they don't have to.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Did your V pan end up clearing? I’m thinking of going this route.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

For those following this thread, the Hooker Blackheart long-tube LS swap headers shown above in post #102 have been released and are listed on the Holley website.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

So how did the fit up go on the 64 you had in the lab in January? Have you been able to see what parts of the 67 to 72 stuff will cross over?
Jimmy

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Yes, we worked through the validation and design process on the 63-66 C10 application and I can report that there will be specific engine mounting brackets and headers that will be released for them that will be based on the use of the same motor mounts we used for the 67-72 C10 shown in this thread. The transmission crossmember will be shared between the application as will the exhaust systems after a small revision is made to the rear tailpipe hanger brackets.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Is there a time frame for this? Getting close to time to start on the 65.
Jimmy

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Hello Jimmy. If you are in immediate need of parts, those specific Hooker Blackheart parts won’t be helpful to you. They have made it past the prototyping stage, but all of the pre-production tooling, documentation and first production run requirements that are still in-process will put their availability out somewhere around 4 months from now.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Hello, do you make a downpipe to go from Hooker ls cast manifolds to the blackheart exhaust system? I have been all over the website and summit but can't find one. found several for cars but not 70 c10. Also how is the clearance for shifter linkage with the headers. the pics above don't show a steering column and linkage. thanks

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

The specific manifold adapter pipe kit you are interested in was prototyped as part of the development effort for this application and are on the production schedule to be ran, which will trigger a product release and website listing to be posted when that happens. I don’t expect all of that to happen until sometime near the end of next month.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

Thank you for the reply and will be watching for the info to come out. on a side note has anyone used this exhaust system along with nolimit parts such as shock relocation kits and adjustable panhard rod system? looking at pics things might get tight. thanks for any input.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

From the photos I looked at of both of those No Limit parts during my development research I’d have to say that neither of them would be usable with the Hooker Blackheart exhaust systems due to them needing to occupy the same physical space as the exhaust system tubing in multiple areas. The driver side over-axle tube will only clear the stock panhard bar frame anchor bracket used on the 1965-up trucks.

Re: Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread
 

I just got the mounts installed. The CTSV pan does clear. The bottom of the pan is flush with the crossmember. The holley mounts dropped the engine just over 1" compared to my dirty ding sliders. The stock fan shroud fits with 1.5 removed from the circle. I am using the stock 6.0.cooling fan.