Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread

[toddoky]

Hello to all. Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 truck LS and LT engine swap systems have been in development for some time and are beginning to get released on a part by part basis. Therefore, I am creating this thread to use as a depository for photos and information related to these systems. As each component/product gets released I, or another designer who was involved with the development of these components, will visit this thread to provide comprehensive information about it.

What I can do as a preliminary step is provide an overview as to what components/systems you'll have available to you upon the full release, and also answer any technical/design related questions you may have related to them. The treatment of this application closely follows that of what we did on 1973-87 C10 truck LS swap application, but also includes coverage for LT engine swap as well. Please do not seek further information on these products through the Holley Customer Service or Tech Service channels at this time as they have no knowledge of products that are not yet released.

The list of components that have be co-developed for this vehicle application includes the following:

Engine mounting brackets (designed for use with GM 4th-gen F-body clamshell motor mounts)- LS and LT engines, provides maximum level of low-mount accessory drive component compatibility
Transmission crossmember- compatibility includes 2004R, TH400, 4L60E-4L75E, 4L80E/4L90E, 6L80 and T56 Magnum transmissions
Long tube headers- LS and LT specific designs that connect to the below mentioned exhaust systems
Dual rear exit and side exit exhaust systems- both 2.5" and 3" systems, design features include tube routing through the trailing arm crossmember and clearance for aftermarket rear track bars, rear frame mounted fuel tanks and 14" wide rear wheel/tire packages
Exhaust manifold adapter tube kits- designed to connect Hooker cast iron exhaust manifolds directly to the 2.5" versions of the above mentioned exhaust systems

I have purposely left these descriptions very general in nature as I believe there will be more value to their details if they are provided as an answer to questions that readers here will ask related to their specific swap project. I believe that the first products that will be getting released will be the 3" versions of the exhaust systems, but I can't judge the release order of the other components at this point in time.

Feel free to post any design/technical questions you may have and I will answer them to the best of my ability.

The next post I'll be making will provide technical information about the 409SS 3" exhaust systems, since they were released just this past week.

[toddoky]

Ok, here's the product release information for the 409SS 3" exhaust systems and images showing the shared and unique components of each of them.

[toddoky]

...and in support of the last post, here's some installed images of the systems on the development vehicle.

[Captainfab]

That exhaust looks very nice and tight fitting. One little bit of FYI, most all of these components designed for the '67-'72 trucks will work/fit equally as well on the '63-'66 trucks. One slight difference with regard to the exhaust systems is that the '63-'64 trucks have a different panhard bar assembly which may be close to the passenger side exhaust tail pipe.

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

That exhaust looks very nice and tight fitting. One little bit of FYI, most all of these components designed for the '67-'72 trucks will work/fit equally as well on the '63-'66 trucks. One slight difference with regard to the exhaust systems is that the '63-'64 trucks have a different panhard bar assembly which may be close to the passenger side exhaust tail pipe.

Thanks for the reply captainfab. Yes, I’m aware of the similarities/differences with the earlier model year C10’s and it is our policy on the Hooker Blackheart development team to not include any vehicle model roll-in extensions in our applications without physical verification of fitment being carried out. If the systems prove to be compatible on the earlier trucks, we will roll them into the application.
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[Captainfab]

That is understandable.

[toddoky]

The 2.5" 409SS versions of these exhaust systems have also been released and listed on the Holley website.

[rennat_2006]

How do those mufflers compare to the hooker max flows? I've been a big fan of the max flows since I installed my first one over 10yrs ago and probably 10 more since then.

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by rennat_2006

How do those mufflers compare to the hooker max flows? I've been a big fan of the max flows since I installed my first one over 10yrs ago and probably 10 more since then.

Sound-wise, they would be similar as they are both straight-through absorption type mufflers. Beyond that, the Hooker Blackheart mufflers are lighter, shorter in height for better clearance and more corrosion resistant (they are made from 304SS).
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[toddoky]

It was brought to my attention by a member that I neglected to post the part numbers for the Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 exhaust systems, which would make it easier for you guys to search for them on the Holley website for more information. I apologize for forgetting to list them earlier, their part numbers are:

BH13193, BH13194, BH13196 and BH13199

[68Stepbed]

Nice looking exhaust system! Interested to see the trans crossmember.

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

Nice looking exhaust system! Interested to see the trans crossmember.

I suspect the crossmember and engine mounting brackets will be getting released about the same time over the course of the next 30-60 days. I will give those components the same support I’ve given the exhaust systems once they get released.
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[72MARIO]

Just wondering what the engine angle.has been set to ? My dirty dingo mounts have my engine down 5 degrees. That angle.is causing drive shaft vibirations in my suburban. I cant get the engine lower without alot of cutting and fabricating. Your exhaust stsyem and transmission crossmember look really nice.

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by 72MARIO

Just wondering what the engine angle.has been set to ? My dirty dingo mounts have my engine down 4.5 degrees. That angle.is causing drive shaft vibirations in my suburban. I cant get the engine lower without alot of cutting and fabricating. Your exhaust stsyem and transmission crossmember look really nice.

Thanks for dropping in to check out the images and give a comment. You’ve discovered what a lot of users of adapter plate mounts have and that is that their use comes with an engine height penalty in most applications that does not permit U-joint operating angles to be optimized in a bolt-on manner. Your case would be even more amplified due to the longer wheelbase of your Suburban compared to a short bed C10, especially if it’s lowered, The engine mounting brackets in the Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 swap system were designed along with the transmission crossmember to provide desirable U-joint working angles on trucks that have been lowered with the typical 4”/6” drop kits that are commonly used on these trucks. I don’t recall what the relative engine inclination angle that resulted from that effort is off of the top of my head, but I will find out and report back on it for you.
Posted via Mobile Device Follow-up: the resultant engine inclination angle ended up being 3.5 degrees relative to the bottom of the frame rail.

[toddoky]

This would be a good time to post some other depictions of the exhaust that can be used for comparative reference to what others may be used to seeing on their own trucks. The first images I'll put up are side shots that show the Hooker Blackheart 3" exhaust system, the 4L80E transmission pan and the coming Hooker Blackheart long tube headers on the development truck.

[BlueJeep]

Todd, can you educate me on how your hooker engine mounts compare to the poly leaf-spring type bushing mounts for vibrations? Thanks!

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by BlueJeep

Todd, can you educate me on how your hooker engine mounts compare to the poly leaf-spring type bushing mounts for vibrations? Thanks!

I can’t make a comparison to the cylindrical poly mount inserts you are referring to as I’ve never designed a set of swap mounts that use them or driven a vehicle that has been equipped with them. I can however make a direct comparison to GM factory 4th-Gen F-Body mounts, because that’s what I design all the Hooker Blackheart LS and LT engine swaps to use. That gives the user the option to use stock rubber replacement mounts, or aftermarket poly inserts in the clamshells, both of which will be available from many sources for years to come.
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[flashed]

Which size would be better for a stock 5.3 engine ?

[flashed]

Also are these kits for sale thru dealers or only thru Holley ?

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by flashed

Which size would be better for a stock 5.3 engine ?

If you are referring to the exhaust systems, the answer would be the 2.5” system in your application. If you are referring to the coming headers, I wouldn’t put 1-3/4” headers on any LS engine other than a stock 4.8L, but others do use them on 5.3L engines.
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[toddoky]

Originally Posted by flashed

Also are these kits for sale thru dealers or only thru Holley ?

You can buy them though any reseller of Hooker Blackheart/Holley products, or directly off of the Holley website.
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[flashed]

I have headers already ,dont remember the brand though . Yes , I was referring to exhaust system . Just waiting on my 70 stepper to come home from rust repair to build it .

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by flashed

I have headers already ,dont remember the brand though . Yes , I was referring to exhaust system . Just waiting on my 70 stepper to come home from rust repair to build it .

Got it. The Hooker Blackheart exhaust system could be adapted to connect to your headers by anyone with competent fabrication skills. The systems released so far are 409SS and they will shortly be released in 304SS as well.
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[BlueJeep]

Originally Posted by toddoky

I can’t make a comparison to the cylindrical poly mount inserts you are referring to as I’ve never designed a set of swap mounts that use them or driven a vehicle that has been equipped with them. I can however make a direct comparison to GM factory 4th-Gen F-Body mounts, because that’s what I design all the Hooker Blackheart LS and LT engine swaps to use. That gives the user the option to use stock rubber replacement mounts, or aftermarket poly inserts in the clamshells, both of which will be available from many sources for years to come.
Posted via Mobile Device

I bought the Holley mounts, and have a quick question for you. Any idea why the poly insert is offset to the right as it's mounted up in the clamshell? I see the OEM F-Body mounts are the same, so I assume to make a direct replacement you had to, but I'm wondering about the reason for it. Thanks!

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by BlueJeep

I bought the Holley mounts, and have a quick question for you. Any idea why the poly insert is offset to the right as it's mounted up in the clamshell? I see the OEM F-Body mounts are the same, so I assume to make a direct replacement you had to, but I'm wondering about the reason for it. Thanks!

Yes, the Hooker Blackheart mounts are designed off of the geometry of the stock GM 4th-gen mounts so as to be interchangeable with them. I can't say for sure why GM built the offset/bias into the inserts, but I would figure it had something to do with the architecture of the 4th-gen cars that required it to be that way. They could have also done it to have a single part number fit both sides of the engine to increase their order quantities and lower production costs.