Sweet Cummins
 

this is not mine, but I saw this on the local Subaru lot. it is very well done w/ a Cummins. cool truck. here is the link

http://www.briggssubaru.com/vehicle-details?vuid=813709

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

Wow at a subie lot nice haha! That's a cool looking truck looks pretty clean from here.
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Re: Sweet Cummins
 

Here is another picture of it I had previously posted in a flat bed truck thread.
http://image.automotive.com/f/featur...front_view.jpg

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

here it is in the March, 2008 issue of Diesel Power


http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...ins/index.html

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

I don't get why everyone loves the Cummins swaps. I know that in a Dodge, it's a great motor in a POS truck, but it's still not something I'd want in my Chevy. Especially the old 12 valve. Can you imagine having to listen to that? Worst sounding diesel engine out there. They sound like a noisy piece of farm equipment, you can't even make them sound good like you can a Duramax or even a 6.5. Heck even the Powerstroke is a V8 so it sounds halfway cool. I think too many people hear a straight piped Cummins and mistake a loud engine for a cool sounding engine.
12 valves are ok work motors, but they're painfully slow and underpowered, until they've been modded big time. And the 12 valves have a lot less aftermarket support than the 24valves. If I had to have a diesel Chevy and couldn't afford a Duramax swap, I'd put in a 6.5 with all the aftermarket stuff I had on my 97. That truck was no Duramax, well it would run with a stock Dmax, but it would do circles around a stock or even a mild 12 valve. I know this goes against all the conventional wisdom, people blindly hate 6.5s and blindly love Cummins, but I've been there and done that.
Sorry for the rant, but I just wanted to vent my opinion. One of my worst nightmares would have to be to spend all night plowing listening to a 12 valve. If I can't listen to a V8 Chevy, I'll stay home. I'd even rather have a little NA 6.2 Chevy. Won't pull near as much, but quicker than a 12 valve and a decent little motor in it's own right.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

TORQUE...
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Re: Sweet Cummins
 

gonna have to agree with detroit on this one, my dad is obcessed with cummins and i somewhat kinda hate them now and until you show me a cummins with over 1000rwhp and it still gets 32 mpg, ill stick to my dreams of a duramax swap

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

I drove a 97 2500 12 valve 4wd, backed it into a parking space until it hit the little concrete curb thing. just for fun I tried to back over it, so the guy would try to leave and bump up over it (little practical joke) but I wasn't able to. It didn't spin and wouldn't climb about a 6 inch lip. Held it to the floor, revs went up and the truck just sat there.

I don't know the torque numbers on a stock 12 valve, but my 6.5 was only 350+ stock and it would do a (dually) brakestand, before I added the propane injection, huge turbo, bigger fuel system and ecm. I once towed a stuck tractor trailer uphill on ice and around a corner into a parking lot. Love to see a little 6 cylinder do that.

Mostly I just hate how they sound.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

I like the paint and front half of that truck, a lot. Not a fan of flatbeds. Can't help but think thet truck is pretty unbalanced, with a heavy diesel engine, 8274 winch and bumper, big cowcatcher up front, then in the back it's got a lightweight aluminum bed and the weight is divided four times instead of two with the dual wheels. That's the type of truck that would not go in the snow at all without 4wd.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

I'm a diesel guy in general , I have a sweet spot for the 12 valves ... Not many many motors can go 1 million miles with out major repairs . I have 3 of the 12 valves , the one is pushing 650k with just a water pump and injection pump .
I also have 2 of the 24 valves ... and prefer the 12 valves as far as the simplicity , 12 valve in the stock form on the 1996 is 180 hp and maybe 420 ft ... not super impressive but change and plate and some injectors and you 350 hp 700 ft .
Theres goes the fuel mileage ... right now I with my stock 12valve I average 20 running around and have done 25 on the highway .
The 24 valves I have 375 hp I'm doing 17 with is not too bad ... I have had the 6.2 , 6.5 and powerstrokes ... I have seen them hit 350k nothing close to cummins .
Nice looking dually !

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

did it bug anybody else that the in the ad on the subie website it says "cummings"?

not to mention the year in the ad says 83 while the article says 80.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

Why people want a Cummins over a 6.2 or 6.5??? I think they are louder than the 12v!!! Not to mention friggin' worthless. When was the last time you saw a Cummins in the junkyard?? I found one and that it's a city bus. I lost count of how many GM diesels I see.

The fact that you can modify them very easily and cheap, get over 600lb/ft of torque and decent economy. Can you do that to a 6.2/6.5? And how long will it last??

Every vehicle I've ever owned was a GM, but two. I had a Honda Integra when I was in Japan, and now have my late father's 08 Tundra. I'm a diehard Chevy guy, but would never own a GM diesel over the Cummins.

As for the Dodge not being able to climb a curb, that is pretty sad, but was probly out of tune, needed some pump work. Buddy inlaw has a Dodge that is like that, not all of them are like that.....

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

i 100% agree. as far as the parking lot dodge, it was probably a trans problem cuz those 47re's or 727s aren't always the cream of the crop, especially behind a diesel.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

For one the truck is being sold by a Dodge dealer so I wouldn't expect them to know that is a 1980 and not a 1983, though running the VIN would help them... :rolleyes: They also list it as both a Chevrolet and a GMC.

Though being a Dodge dealer you would think they would know a Cummins, from a Cummings.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

12 valves are simple , strong and they last for ever, mine has 479,000 on it and runs like it is new. They don't need lots of aftermarket support because they are simple, you can take care off all of the necessities, from fuel pins to turbos and intakes its all available. These things make incredible power when set up properly, a friend of mine has a 12 valve that puts 650 hp to the ground, when dialed in the truck should be in the 10's.
The only down sides to the cummins is weight and noise, the weight is a matter of design and can easily be dealt with the noise can be controlled from inside the cab (sound deadening) and is a matter of taste and choice.
I have a 1989 cummins in my 1980 Cherokee Chief it will run forever on a wide variety of fuels , pull down a house and still be running after you have replaced or rebuilt your gm diesel for the fourth time.
No disrespect to the 6.2/6.5 but they call the 12 valve the million mile engine for a reason.

Don't believe the power capability check out... Cole claims to have around 10,000 in the grey dodge, these things can be crazy fast for cheap!
There is a reason that the 12 valve has its reputation for reliability and power.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

Definately an '80 front end on the truck....

K

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

I've got both a 1982 Suburban 6.2L diesel and a 1990 Suburban that has been retrofitted with a VE pump Cummins so I can talk about both engines. Both engines shine in different ways. The 6.2L gets better fuel economy hands down. I get 30 mpg with the 6.2L but the most I've got with the Cummins is 26 mpg. I've got headers and glasspacks on the 6.2L and it sounds powerful and more menacing than the largest big block V8. And the engine will rev to 3600 rpm's and set off all the car alarms on the side of the street. It's fun to drive and will go over 100 mph and accelerate 0-60 in less than 11 seconds. Parts are relatively inexpensive for the 6.2L and people hate them so complete used engines are easy to come by. However, I know that the bottom end of the block is weak so the bottom end letting go is always on my mind.

The Cummins on the other hand is a slow revving engine governed at 2300 rpms. The engine does not scream like the 6.2L and does not have that menacing V8 growl but it's a lot smoother running engine and it has a lot more pulling power. The big difference is when it comes to pulling a heavy load. It'll easily pull 10k lbs while the 6.2L strains even pulling 5k lbs. The engine also has a lot more usable power in the rpm band that you're using. You just push down on the gas pedal and it takes off even at 1500 rpm's while the 6.2L has to rev similar to a gas engine up to provide power. The engine is also heavily built and is not known for letting go at any second so it gives me much better peace of mind when I'm a long ways from home. So far, both engines have served me well.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

The cummins is actually governed at 2800 rpm and that is easily changed, mine will run to 3200 , the governor spring is $20.00

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

Thanks for the clarification but the governed rpm's depends on the year and the application. 2300 rpm is what mine is set at according to the stamp on the engine.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

yes say it in Manhattan Kansas at another Briggs store it is transplanted nicely done but they want an arm and a leg for it try 19,000 dollars I just laughed

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

even though the cummins is a better bang for the buck engine i dont like it because everybody has one, wether it be in a dodge chevy or f@*d. i like the amount of power you can get out of them too but it has become more of a bolt in process to do the swap rather than an inovative thing, i would rather put a 6.2 or 6.5 in something with mild upgrades than put a cummins in because the older 12 valves are climbing in price and the 24 valves arent losing value so i dont want to be an arm and a leg into a stock engine with 400,000+ miles on it. and i have still yet to see a cummins with over 1000rwhp and get 32 mpg...but i have a seen a duramax do it

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

I live in a little town where every kid who got his dads hand me down dodge with a 6BT in it has cut the muffler off and they think it's the baddest thing on the road. I can see why you're ranting.

Honestly though, the ones that still have the stock muffler or a decent aftermarket still sound pretty good to me. It's a pretty good motor, if you don't let the little wannabe cowboys ruin it for you.:lol:

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

My brother-in-law and father-in-law are both diesel guys, and as soon as my wife told my FIL about the Suburban, he brought up swapping in a 6BT. I'll take my gas guzzling SBC thank you, diesel just ain't my bag.

Good looking truck though. Funny they didn't run the VIN on it tho.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

Yeah, it's crazy that people pay so much for a diesel truck. It just does not make sense economically unless you pull heavy loads or plan to drive the thing for 1 million miles. Diesel costs more at the pump and even though they may get better gas mileage, it's unlikely that they'll ever come out ahead. With the way things are going, I expect to see the price of diesel truck plunging in the near future.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

because its the new craze, just like 22s and bigger wheels, mid duty trucks, black paint jobs, Rat rod look.

a cummins is great motor but its overrated and overpriced

a 6.2/6.5 are great motors too but is very underrated and people all the time give them crap over half of them proberly never driving or owned one just because some one had a problem with them and its told over again. it is what it is and nothing more

its the same argument V6 vs V8 or R6 vs V8 in trucks and cars or import vs domestic

oh and by the way there are alot of engine manufactures that makes engine that will last just as long as cummins
im driving one thats close to 800 thousend miles on original drive train

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

I agree that diesel engine prices are over rated , look at Europe , just about every automotive manufacture has diesel powered cars and trucks , most its just standard of the base price .
In alot of cases its the Gasoline engine that cost more than a diesel .

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

pi**es me off that diesel costs more at the pump, it's a dirty, less refined by-product of making gasoline, it should be cheaper. When I bought my first diesel pickup, diesel was 90 cents a gallon cheaper. First couple of years it would bump up in the winter due to heating oil cost/competition, but then it would go back down. Then one year it just didn't go down again. I'm convinced it has to do with them targeting the trucking industry, because it's a sitting duck of a target. Regular people can try to adjust their driving to save on fuel, but the trucking must go on no matter what it costs.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

Apples to oranges here. Sure the Duramax is an awesome engine. But, the 12v Cummins takes exactly one wire to run (fuel shut off solenoid, and that's optional as it has a manual lever too). A set of Cummins injectors run well under 500 dollars. A set of injectors for a Duramax will break the bank. One is high tech and the other is stone age simple.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

very true. one thing that's turned me off of the duramax trucks, cause I used to really want one, was knowing people who paid $3500 to have their injectors done. I paid $280 iirc for all 8 on my 6.5 and did it myself.

My friend has a 96 or 97 and he can't find any modest power adders. Seems like if you want to mod it, you have to go all out. His dually struggles to pull his horse trailer in the mountains.I think there's a lot more cheap, simple power mods for the 24 valves.

I went camping with a guy had an 01 Cummins HO standard. I was embarassed at my truck climbing the last big hill in the Whites at 30 miles an hour, until he told me he cleared the top at 10 mph and his camper was a little bit smaller than mine.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

That's because the 6.2/6.5 engine has a bottom end that is not really designed for much more power over stock HP. Yes you can add propane injection and slap on a bigger turbo and significantly increase the power, but the engine likely won't last long. But in stock form and especially at the 150 hp level and less, these engines can last forever.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

It's been shown that 300 hp will kill a 6.5 prematurely. Idk where you got 150 from, they were rated at 180 or 195, depending on engine programming and emissions. I started with a stock 195 F engine, added marine injectors, a 50% larger turbo, (which btw lowers air intake temperature and makes the engine last much longer) a larger fuel pump and fuel system, a 4 inch exhaust and an ECM capable of increased fuel delivery. I didn't keep the propane long because it didn't do what I wanted it to do, which was help with towing. It made the truck a hotrod tire burner, but caused a pre-ignition (ping) condition under a heavy load, and I'd have to keep turning it down until it wasnt doing anything. Truck had 182k HARD miles on it when Isold it, and it's still out there working.

Military 6.5s have the Optimizer style engine with far better blocks and bottom ends. But at the end of the day, GM designed a light duty engine for use in a light duty line of trucks and suvs. At the time, it was more than sufficient for it's intended use, and LD pickups have never been built with more than 300,000 miles in mind. At least they built a motor, instead of outsourcing it, just buying medium duty engines and squeezing them into light duty pickups, which is what Dodge and Ford both did.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

i want it i want it i want it i want it

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

i fully agree and i think that the 12v cummins is a great engine but you see them in any/everything now and i dont like that, its like the cummins has its own cult following it and people are blindly following off of what someone else has led them to believe (meaning people will do the swap because someone told them its their best bet and then they suddenly become an expert and know everything about a cummins), being an engineman in the navy, part of my job is to work on ridged hull inflatable boats that have 12v cummins' in them and they break so often that i just get tired of working on them :waah: so i dont want to have to work on those all the time then go home and have to do the same thing

plus my dad has an 82 chevy and a 64 chevy with 12v cummins motors and everytime he pulls someone out of a ditch he always gets the same question... "hey man what kind of programmer you got in that thing?" and it bugs the f**k out of me :m6:

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

If you were able to add up the numbers out there, I'd bet there are several hundred Cummins conversions for every Duramax conversion completed.

If you're standing in your shop looking at an empty engine bay and a modest amount of disposable money to spend on a conversion, the Cummins will always be the go-to choice. They are simple, cheap, pretty easy to install.

It's just more practical for most guys. I've had 5 Cummins Dodge pickups. The engines have been awesome, the trucks ran from "meh" at the best down to making me consider burning it to the ground at the worst. I've had 2 first gens, 2 second gens, and a third gen. The 1st gens are slow and quiet and very fuel efficient. The 12v second gen was reliable and steady. The 24v second gen would stand your hair up it pulled so hard (02 HO 6 speed). The third gen (03 HO 6 speed) is quiet, smooth and fast. I gave it to my ex wife and she uses it to pull horse trailers for her ranch every day without any complaint returning 15mpg towing and 20 unloaded.

Re: Sweet Cummins
 

I don't want to do it cause everyone else is, my truck (far as I know) will be the only one in my area. Shoot, there aren't any crew cabs in my area anymore.

I want one cause they make crazy power with just simple stuff, pull the foundation of a house, and still get respectable fuel mileage. No other engine swap can do that. Duramax's are sweet, but totally electronic, something I want to get away from. All that stuff is nice till something goes wrong, then spending hundreds on trying to find and fix it.

Detroits might be good for mileage, but can't do much to get power out of them. Also, when was the last time you saw a Detroit 6.2/5 in anything other than a GM truck?? Cummins is used in alot of different equipment. Didn't do a great job, but we have a truck at work that has a Cummins, IIRC it's a 24v, 230 horse 7-speed, Freightshaker FL70, and that pulls doubles. Not very fast and it's screaming doing 65, but it pulls them. Like to see a Detroit do that....