Sweet Cummins

[truckfan]

this is not mine, but I saw this on the local Subaru lot. it is very well done w/ a Cummins. cool truck. here is the link

http://www.briggssubaru.com/vehicle-details?vuid=813709

[Hoods69BadBowTie]

Wow at a subie lot nice haha! That's a cool looking truck looks pretty clean from here.
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[Prerunner1982]

Here is another picture of it I had previously posted in a flat bed truck thread.

[Doug_J]

here it is in the March, 2008 issue of Diesel Power


http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...ins/index.html

[DetroitDan]

I don't get why everyone loves the Cummins swaps. I know that in a Dodge, it's a great motor in a POS truck, but it's still not something I'd want in my Chevy. Especially the old 12 valve. Can you imagine having to listen to that? Worst sounding diesel engine out there. They sound like a noisy piece of farm equipment, you can't even make them sound good like you can a Duramax or even a 6.5. Heck even the Powerstroke is a V8 so it sounds halfway cool. I think too many people hear a straight piped Cummins and mistake a loud engine for a cool sounding engine.
12 valves are ok work motors, but they're painfully slow and underpowered, until they've been modded big time. And the 12 valves have a lot less aftermarket support than the 24valves. If I had to have a diesel Chevy and couldn't afford a Duramax swap, I'd put in a 6.5 with all the aftermarket stuff I had on my 97. That truck was no Duramax, well it would run with a stock Dmax, but it would do circles around a stock or even a mild 12 valve. I know this goes against all the conventional wisdom, people blindly hate 6.5s and blindly love Cummins, but I've been there and done that.
Sorry for the rant, but I just wanted to vent my opinion. One of my worst nightmares would have to be to spend all night plowing listening to a 12 valve. If I can't listen to a V8 Chevy, I'll stay home. I'd even rather have a little NA 6.2 Chevy. Won't pull near as much, but quicker than a 12 valve and a decent little motor in it's own right.

[KQQL IT]

TORQUE...
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[firenuttz]

Originally Posted by KQQL IT

TORQUE...
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gonna have to agree with detroit on this one, my dad is obcessed with cummins and i somewhat kinda hate them now and until you show me a cummins with over 1000rwhp and it still gets 32 mpg, ill stick to my dreams of a duramax swap

[DetroitDan]

Originally Posted by KQQL IT

TORQUE...
Posted via Mobile Device

I drove a 97 2500 12 valve 4wd, backed it into a parking space until it hit the little concrete curb thing. just for fun I tried to back over it, so the guy would try to leave and bump up over it (little practical joke) but I wasn't able to. It didn't spin and wouldn't climb about a 6 inch lip. Held it to the floor, revs went up and the truck just sat there.

I don't know the torque numbers on a stock 12 valve, but my 6.5 was only 350+ stock and it would do a (dually) brakestand, before I added the propane injection, huge turbo, bigger fuel system and ecm. I once towed a stuck tractor trailer uphill on ice and around a corner into a parking lot. Love to see a little 6 cylinder do that.

Mostly I just hate how they sound.

[DetroitDan]

I like the paint and front half of that truck, a lot. Not a fan of flatbeds. Can't help but think thet truck is pretty unbalanced, with a heavy diesel engine, 8274 winch and bumper, big cowcatcher up front, then in the back it's got a lightweight aluminum bed and the weight is divided four times instead of two with the dual wheels. That's the type of truck that would not go in the snow at all without 4wd.

[greguw]

I'm a diesel guy in general , I have a sweet spot for the 12 valves ... Not many many motors can go 1 million miles with out major repairs . I have 3 of the 12 valves , the one is pushing 650k with just a water pump and injection pump .
I also have 2 of the 24 valves ... and prefer the 12 valves as far as the simplicity , 12 valve in the stock form on the 1996 is 180 hp and maybe 420 ft ... not super impressive but change and plate and some injectors and you 350 hp 700 ft .
Theres goes the fuel mileage ... right now I with my stock 12valve I average 20 running around and have done 25 on the highway .
The 24 valves I have 375 hp I'm doing 17 with is not too bad ... I have had the 6.2 , 6.5 and powerstrokes ... I have seen them hit 350k nothing close to cummins .
Nice looking dually !

[jonessmc87]

did it bug anybody else that the in the ad on the subie website it says "cummings"?

not to mention the year in the ad says 83 while the article says 80.

[b454rat]

Why people want a Cummins over a 6.2 or 6.5??? I think they are louder than the 12v!!! Not to mention friggin' worthless. When was the last time you saw a Cummins in the junkyard?? I found one and that it's a city bus. I lost count of how many GM diesels I see.

The fact that you can modify them very easily and cheap, get over 600lb/ft of torque and decent economy. Can you do that to a 6.2/6.5? And how long will it last??

Every vehicle I've ever owned was a GM, but two. I had a Honda Integra when I was in Japan, and now have my late father's 08 Tundra. I'm a diehard Chevy guy, but would never own a GM diesel over the Cummins.

As for the Dodge not being able to climb a curb, that is pretty sad, but was probly out of tune, needed some pump work. Buddy inlaw has a Dodge that is like that, not all of them are like that.....

[jonessmc87]

Originally Posted by b454rat

Why people want a Cummins over a 6.2 or 6.5??? I think they are louder than the 12v!!! Not to mention friggin' worthless. When was the last time you saw a Cummins in the junkyard?? I found one and that it's a city bus. I lost count of how many GM diesels I see.

The fact that you can modify them very easily and cheap, get over 600lb/ft of torque and decent economy. Can you do that to a 6.2/6.5? And how long will it last??

Every vehicle I've ever owned was a GM, but two. I had a Honda Integra when I was in Japan, and now have my late father's 08 Tundra. I'm a diehard Chevy guy, but would never own a GM diesel over the Cummins.

As for the Dodge not being able to climb a curb, that is pretty sad, but was probly out of tune, needed some pump work. Buddy inlaw has a Dodge that is like that, not all of them are like that.....

i 100% agree. as far as the parking lot dodge, it was probably a trans problem cuz those 47re's or 727s aren't always the cream of the crop, especially behind a diesel.

[Prerunner1982]

Originally Posted by jonessmc87

did it bug anybody else that the in the ad on the subie website it says "cummings"?

not to mention the year in the ad says 83 while the article says 80.

For one the truck is being sold by a Dodge dealer so I wouldn't expect them to know that is a 1980 and not a 1983, though running the VIN would help them... They also list it as both a Chevrolet and a GMC.

Though being a Dodge dealer you would think they would know a Cummins, from a Cummings.

[kwin]

12 valves are simple , strong and they last for ever, mine has 479,000 on it and runs like it is new. They don't need lots of aftermarket support because they are simple, you can take care off all of the necessities, from fuel pins to turbos and intakes its all available. These things make incredible power when set up properly, a friend of mine has a 12 valve that puts 650 hp to the ground, when dialed in the truck should be in the 10's.
The only down sides to the cummins is weight and noise, the weight is a matter of design and can easily be dealt with the noise can be controlled from inside the cab (sound deadening) and is a matter of taste and choice.
I have a 1989 cummins in my 1980 Cherokee Chief it will run forever on a wide variety of fuels , pull down a house and still be running after you have replaced or rebuilt your gm diesel for the fourth time.
No disrespect to the 6.2/6.5 but they call the 12 valve the million mile engine for a reason.

Don't believe the power capability check out...

YouTube - ‪Pinks All Out Infineon...

Cole claims to have around 10,000 in the grey dodge, these things can be crazy fast for cheap!
There is a reason that the 12 valve has its reputation for reliability and power.

Originally Posted by DetroitDan

I don't get why everyone loves the Cummins swaps. I know that in a Dodge, it's a great motor in a POS truck, but it's still not something I'd want in my Chevy. Especially the old 12 valve. Can you imagine having to listen to that? Worst sounding diesel engine out there. They sound like a noisy piece of farm equipment, you can't even make them sound good like you can a Duramax or even a 6.5. Heck even the Powerstroke is a V8 so it sounds halfway cool. I think too many people hear a straight piped Cummins and mistake a loud engine for a cool sounding engine.
12 valves are ok work motors, but they're painfully slow and underpowered, until they've been modded big time. And the 12 valves have a lot less aftermarket support than the 24valves. If I had to have a diesel Chevy and couldn't afford a Duramax swap, I'd put in a 6.5 with all the aftermarket stuff I had on my 97. That truck was no Duramax, well it would run with a stock Dmax, but it would do circles around a stock or even a mild 12 valve. I know this goes against all the conventional wisdom, people blindly hate 6.5s and blindly love Cummins, but I've been there and done that.
Sorry for the rant, but I just wanted to vent my opinion. One of my worst nightmares would have to be to spend all night plowing listening to a 12 valve. If I can't listen to a V8 Chevy, I'll stay home. I'd even rather have a little NA 6.2 Chevy. Won't pull near as much, but quicker than a 12 valve and a decent little motor in it's own right.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by jonessmc87

did it bug anybody else that the in the ad on the subie website it says "cummings"?

not to mention the year in the ad says 83 while the article says 80.

Definately an '80 front end on the truck....

K

[Edahall]

I've got both a 1982 Suburban 6.2L diesel and a 1990 Suburban that has been retrofitted with a VE pump Cummins so I can talk about both engines. Both engines shine in different ways. The 6.2L gets better fuel economy hands down. I get 30 mpg with the 6.2L but the most I've got with the Cummins is 26 mpg. I've got headers and glasspacks on the 6.2L and it sounds powerful and more menacing than the largest big block V8. And the engine will rev to 3600 rpm's and set off all the car alarms on the side of the street. It's fun to drive and will go over 100 mph and accelerate 0-60 in less than 11 seconds. Parts are relatively inexpensive for the 6.2L and people hate them so complete used engines are easy to come by. However, I know that the bottom end of the block is weak so the bottom end letting go is always on my mind.

The Cummins on the other hand is a slow revving engine governed at 2300 rpms. The engine does not scream like the 6.2L and does not have that menacing V8 growl but it's a lot smoother running engine and it has a lot more pulling power. The big difference is when it comes to pulling a heavy load. It'll easily pull 10k lbs while the 6.2L strains even pulling 5k lbs. The engine also has a lot more usable power in the rpm band that you're using. You just push down on the gas pedal and it takes off even at 1500 rpm's while the 6.2L has to rev similar to a gas engine up to provide power. The engine is also heavily built and is not known for letting go at any second so it gives me much better peace of mind when I'm a long ways from home. So far, both engines have served me well.

[kwin]

The cummins is actually governed at 2800 rpm and that is easily changed, mine will run to 3200 , the governor spring is $20.00

Originally Posted by Edahall

I've got both a 1982 Suburban 6.2L diesel and a 1990 Suburban that has been retrofitted with a VE pump Cummins so I can talk about both engines. Both engines shine in different ways. The 6.2L gets better fuel economy hands down. I get 30 mpg with the 6.2L but the most I've got with the Cummins is 26 mpg. I've got headers and glasspacks on the 6.2L and it sounds powerful and more menacing than the largest big block V8. And the engine will rev to 3600 rpm's and set off all the car alarms on the side of the street. It's fun to drive and will go over 100 mph and accelerate 0-60 in less than 11 seconds. Parts are relatively inexpensive for the 6.2L and people hate them so complete used engines are easy to come by. However, I know that the bottom end of the block is weak so the bottom end letting go is always on my mind.

The Cummins on the other hand is a slow revving engine governed at 2300 rpms. The engine does not scream like the 6.2L and does not have that menacing V8 growl but it's a lot smoother running engine and it has a lot more pulling power. The big difference is when it comes to pulling a heavy load. It'll easily pull 10k lbs while the 6.2L strains even pulling 5k lbs. The engine also has a lot more usable power in the rpm band that you're using. You just push down on the gas pedal and it takes off even at 1500 rpm's while the 6.2L has to rev similar to a gas engine up to provide power. The engine is also heavily built and is not known for letting go at any second so it gives me much better peace of mind when I'm a long ways from home. So far, both engines have served me well.

[Edahall]

Originally Posted by kwin

The cummins is actually governed at 2800 rpm and that is easily changed, mine will run to 3200 , the governor spring is $20.00

Thanks for the clarification but the governed rpm's depends on the year and the application. 2300 rpm is what mine is set at according to the stamp on the engine.

[rcsweet21]

yes say it in Manhattan Kansas at another Briggs store it is transplanted nicely done but they want an arm and a leg for it try 19,000 dollars I just laughed

[firenuttz]

even though the cummins is a better bang for the buck engine i dont like it because everybody has one, wether it be in a dodge chevy or f@*d. i like the amount of power you can get out of them too but it has become more of a bolt in process to do the swap rather than an inovative thing, i would rather put a 6.2 or 6.5 in something with mild upgrades than put a cummins in because the older 12 valves are climbing in price and the 24 valves arent losing value so i dont want to be an arm and a leg into a stock engine with 400,000+ miles on it. and i have still yet to see a cummins with over 1000rwhp and get 32 mpg...but i have a seen a duramax do it

[Pyrotechnic]

Originally Posted by DetroitDan

I don't get why everyone loves the Cummins swaps. I know that in a Dodge, it's a great motor in a POS truck, but it's still not something I'd want in my Chevy. Especially the old 12 valve. Can you imagine having to listen to that? Worst sounding diesel engine out there. They sound like a noisy piece of farm equipment, you can't even make them sound good like you can a Duramax or even a 6.5.

I'd even rather have a little NA 6.2 Chevy. Won't pull near as much, but quicker than a 12 valve and a decent little motor in it's own right.

I live in a little town where every kid who got his dads hand me down dodge with a 6BT in it has cut the muffler off and they think it's the baddest thing on the road. I can see why you're ranting.

Honestly though, the ones that still have the stock muffler or a decent aftermarket still sound pretty good to me. It's a pretty good motor, if you don't let the little wannabe cowboys ruin it for you.

[nate_g_2003]

My brother-in-law and father-in-law are both diesel guys, and as soon as my wife told my FIL about the Suburban, he brought up swapping in a 6BT. I'll take my gas guzzling SBC thank you, diesel just ain't my bag.

Good looking truck though. Funny they didn't run the VIN on it tho.

[Edahall]

Yeah, it's crazy that people pay so much for a diesel truck. It just does not make sense economically unless you pull heavy loads or plan to drive the thing for 1 million miles. Diesel costs more at the pump and even though they may get better gas mileage, it's unlikely that they'll ever come out ahead. With the way things are going, I expect to see the price of diesel truck plunging in the near future.

[GmtGmt]

because its the new craze, just like 22s and bigger wheels, mid duty trucks, black paint jobs, Rat rod look.

a cummins is great motor but its overrated and overpriced

a 6.2/6.5 are great motors too but is very underrated and people all the time give them crap over half of them proberly never driving or owned one just because some one had a problem with them and its told over again. it is what it is and nothing more

its the same argument V6 vs V8 or R6 vs V8 in trucks and cars or import vs domestic

oh and by the way there are alot of engine manufactures that makes engine that will last just as long as cummins
im driving one thats close to 800 thousend miles on original drive train