4500 mockup begins-eng location ?

[SunSoaked]

I got an old smallblock bolted up to the 4500 and dropped it into the frame rails today for the mockup stage. I moved the front x-member fwd 3 1/4 inches, cuz thats where one set of holes lined up. Figured it should be close to what I need. Gains me a little clearance between the HEI cap and firewall and moves the trans shifter fwd to a more usable position.

The shifter now will come thru the floor 2 inches behind the front cab mounts ( see the black x in last photo ).

Anyone gone thru this before (Steve-Larry)? I would appreciate any feedback to save me any grief if I'm overlooking something. This is my first shot at this.

['63GENIII]

Im in the middle of my swap right now although yours looks to be a 67-72? Im doing mine on a 63K truck. Are you keeping the hyd. clutch? Ive heard that on pass. side drop that slave cyl. to front driveshaft can be a concern but I just put in the bh and it doesn't look to be an issue. As far as moving the engine foward, I havent had to do that. Im running a BB and using the original v8 "side mounts. Is your trans hump the low one? The 4500 shift tower is tall even for the tall hump that I have on mine.

[SunSoaked]

Its a 69. The cab is off a C10, but I have to swap in the high hump from the 69 k10 I started with.

I'm keeping the juice clutch, but will be using the AA bellhousing with the D/S output when I get to final assembly.

I knew the 4500 was longer than the 465 and would put the shifter up against the seat. I'm running a s/b with electric fans so I should have plenty of clearance under the hood.

I checked the clearance between the clutch fork on the P/S bell and the Dana 60 pumpkin. It looks ok without any weight on it, but looks like it will hit the front shaft if it compresses more than about 4-5 inches. Better safe than sorry. You can see what I mean in this photo from behind.

['63GENIII]

I see what you mean with the 60 vs. the slave cyl. I just bolted mine in last night and it looks to be fine. Its interesting to see the crossmember that you are using. Is it the original from your truck? I think the one that I have may be from a car. Its way different. BTW, the shifter comes up almost perfectly between the seat and my underdash ac. I was real worried about that until I saw it in place. Your set up is pretty sweet looking. Looks like you have 52"s in the front? Thats on my bucket list too.

[snj8198]

I think you're smart to position the assembly forward especially since drive shafts are yet to come. Do you plan to run a short or long water pump? Be prepared to use electric fans going that far forward. Depending on arm length, you might find that the trans shifter may be out of comfortable reach especially when hitting 5th. A guy may get away with simply heating and bending the base shaft that the shifter screws on to (i did this) or perhaps making a custom shifter.

When I do my up coming body off resto I plan to move the engine to the forward set of mount holes. Currently it's positioned in the rearward holes and I find that there isn't as much firewall clearance as I would like for both the dizzy and tall valve covers, and my t-case shifter sits too close to my bench seat to comfortably shift into 4 high. I'll will have to address the trans shifter then too.

I like the 52" swap! Are you planning to use a sway bar?

[SunSoaked]

Thats the original trans x-member. I think I'll move it forward a few inches and use it as is. The original trans mount on the 4500 looks pretty beefy and straight forward. I'll probably have to fab a spacer to get the height correct.

The springs are from the 86 one ton (m1008). I think they are 47 inches not 52. I only had to move the front/rear positions 1.5 inches out.

I modified the front mounts with 2 inch steel blocks and used 2 inch longer shackle hangers from ORD. This kept the geometry the same and raised the front 2 inches using stock springs.

Steve- I have a serpantine setup and will be using electric fans (Spal-dual 10inch). I plan to twin stick the 205 and fab the bracket/shifter setup so thats not an issue.

Thanks, Mike

[duallyjams]

Another NV4500 conversion to watch sweet.

[snj8198]

Sounds like you got much of it figured out. Have fun and good luck!

[SunSoaked]

Originally Posted by snj8198

Sounds like you got much of it figured out. Have fun and good luck!

Thanks Steve- Hopefully it will look similar to yours when I'm done. Yours has been an inspiration from the beginning.

[Redcap]

Got to tell you SunSoaked...I'm a little jealous. I'll be watching this thread.

[bp71k5]

I did the same amount of drivetrain movement when I did my 4500 conversion. It works ok although I used electric fans. One thing to watch is the x-case shifters crashing into the trans shifter if you are going to be 4x4. I was able to use a straight tube for a shifter without any bends in it.

[72BBCK20]

This is going to be a real nice build keep it up! as for motor placement when I built my 72the first time around with a 350 I left the motor in the original 4x4 position and didn't have any issues with the HEI cap. as for the shifter it should just slightly touch the seat in reverse. however if in the future you deside to go big block then the motor does need to move forward as you have done.

[Captainfab]

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[ryanroo]

Personally i like leaving the engine farther back. overall performance-wise it is best to leave as much of the weight back as much as possible. when i did the swap in my truck i left the engine in the stock position and moved the tranny crossmember back. there are pics in this thread showing the shifter and other locations. don't judge to hard, i was younger then and had a lot less fab experience. this truck had a big cap HEI and no issues with clearance. if i did it again now, i would do the same location, but the bracketry would be mo' betta. in fact, i have a round 205 that i think will go in my parts truck with a 4500 at some point...

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=147028

From the looks of it, your trucks going to be a real beast!

Ryan

[SunSoaked]

Thanks Ryan-

I just went thru your thread. Good info.

I been looking at driveshaft options, since I have nothing at the moment. Good lands-that stuff is pricey! I'm going to pick thru the boneyard and see if I cant find a stock D60 front shaft. If I find one I may adjust the engine position a little before making a final decision. I want everything mocked up before I make any permanent changes. I'm looking for any way to use OEM parts and save some $ in the process. Funds are getting a little low at the moment.

Originally Posted by ryanroo

Personally i like leaving the engine farther back. overall performance-wise it is best to leave as much of the weight back as much as possible. when i did the swap in my truck i left the engine in the stock position and moved the tranny crossmember back. there are pics in this thread showing the shifter and other locations. don't judge to hard, i was younger then and had a lot less fab experience. this truck had a big cap HEI and no issues with clearance. if i did it again now, i would do the same location, but the bracketry would be mo' betta. in fact, i have a round 205 that i think will go in my parts truck with a 4500 at some point...

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=147028

From the looks of it, your trucks going to be a real beast!

Ryan

[ryanroo]

If you look for a 2nd gen (94-01) dodge front shaft, it will be one of the beefier units. it has a 1350 CV and a 1350 front joint. the yoke for the dana 60 should be around 60 bucks and you will have pretty much the best front driveline you can have in a street truck for reasonable price.. i had one made for my jeep with the same specs, and it is super beefy.

also a good driveline shop can shorten a driveline pretty cheaply, but lengthening is pricey. I used to do that when i worked at avalanche. it takes a decent fab guy with a lathe about an hour to shorten a DL and no material. that would be around 65-95 bucks depending on the local rates. so, when you are working on placement i would err on the side that makes it such that you need to shorten a driveline, not lengthen one. and when you are setting the driveline remember that they will all get shorter when the rest of the truck is set on the chassis.

[SunSoaked]

Thanks for the info Ryan

[duallyjams]

Got a pic of the engine and firewall.

[SunSoaked]

Made some good progress today. Got the high hump installed and set the cab back on to check fitment. Also bolted the T-case to the trans with the AA adapter. Bolted the 87 hydroboost steering box to the frame and some other small odds/ends.

The trans ended up almost perfect with the 3 1/4" move forward.

[SunSoaked]

Originally Posted by duallyjams

Got a pic of the engine and firewall.

Not the best photo. I'll get some better ones tomorrow with the distributer dropped in and from the side.

[duallyjams]

Looks like the stock trans shifter will hit the dash.

[BigRed76]

I'm not sure what the differences are between engine locations on 2wd & 4wd trucks, but my '71 is a 2wd factory small block truck and it has the same clearance between the HEI cap & firewall. So having your engine that far forward is such a bad thing considering mine is like that from factory.

[BigRed76]

Originally Posted by BigRed76

I'm not sure what the differences are between engine locations on 2wd & 4wd trucks, but my '71 is a 2wd factory small block truck and it has the same clearance between the HEI cap & firewall. So having your engine that far forward is such a bad thing considering mine is like that from factory.

I meant to say it is not such a bad thing.

[coops714x4]

Ok SunSoaked I'm in, I'll be following you closely as I'm doing a very similar project soon (I hope) Coop

[BigRed76]

So if you've got 3 inches of clearance between the HEI cap and firewall, and you moved the engine forward 3 1/4", that means the cap would've been hitting the firewall had you not moved everything forward