Laying frame on 71 C10 questions

[chevychase]

I'm trying to get my 71 C10 to lay the frame on air bags. I didn't want to Z the frame to lay it, so I had a crossmember that had 1.5" notch and then took it up another 1.5 into the frame giving me a total of 3" up into the frame. The crossmember was also moved forward an 1.5"

With 2.5" drop spindles, should I be able to lay the frame with 29" tires? Anything else I should do or undo?

Man, I hope this was done right!!!!!! Excuse the rust, when it's all done I'll have it sand blasted and powder coated.

[bb1979]

Looks pretty good to me, I think that the upper a-arm mount could do with some gusseting. How are you going to move the steering box/ idler arm up 3" and forward 1.5" to retain the factory geometry??

[SCOTI]

What do you plan to do about steering?

[chevychase]

Originally Posted by bb1979

Looks pretty good to me, I think that the upper a-arm mount could do with some gusseting. How are you going to move the steering box/ idler arm up 3" and forward 1.5" to retain the factory geometry??

Hey bb1979 and SCOTI!

How much would you gusset the upper a-arm mount?

My buddy says he can fab something. I think he said he would chop the idler arm and add to it. He was also saying we could do a rack and pinion pretty easy.

I've been collecting my surplus. I have a new AGR quick ratio box with all Moog suspension, but am not married to it and could sell it.

Which option would be better, a rack and pinion or the Moog stuff?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by chevychase

Hey bb1979 and SCOTI!

How much would you gusset the upper a-arm mount?

My buddy says he can fab something. I think he said he would chop the idler arm and add to it. He was also saying we could do a rack and pinion pretty easy.

I've been collecting my surplus. I have a new AGR quick ratio box with all Moog suspension, but am not married to it and could sell it.

Which option would be better, a rack and pinion or the Moog stuff?

W/the stock steering system, you're going to need to c-notch the frame rails for drag-link/tie-rod clearance & that would put alot of stress on the front frame rails where the steering box is. That stress leads to cracking & fatigue/failure of the weld.

I've heard of guys moving the entire section of frame where the steering box is on the drivers side & where the idler mounts on the pass side. I've seen a couple of pics of this type of mod but it wasn't engineered or professional looking & I can't say if it was safe (I wouldn't have ridden in the vehicle).

If you have the knowledge.... go R&P.

[chevychase]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

I've heard of guys moving the entire section of frame where the steering box is on the drivers side & where the idler mounts on the pass side. I've seen a couple of pics of this type of mod but it wasn't engineered or professional looking & I can't say if it was safe (I wouldn't have ridden in the vehicle).

If you have the knowledge.... go R&P.

Yeah, I was thinking the R&P would be a nicer upgrade and maybe even simplify things a bit too. Is there any 'GOOD' performing R&P people are using with good success on these 67-72 trucks?

[azfab]

oh yeah dude i have the same setup. mine lays on 22s 2653522 or 29'' tall. you shouldent need a drop spindel i dont. but you will need to do something about the steering. the pitman will hit the lower a arm and you need to notch the crossmember for the drag link thats if you use the stock suspension. but a rack would take care of all that nonsence. good job man.

[chevychase]

Originally Posted by azfab

oh yeah dude i have the same setup. mine lays on 22s 2653522 or 29'' tall. you shouldent need a drop spindel i dont. but you will need to do something about the steering. the pitman will hit the lower a arm and you need to notch the crossmember for the drag link thats if you use the stock suspension. but a rack would take care of all that nonsence. good job man.

Thanks azfab! You have the same crossmember setup? Any differences? I'd like to see/hear what you have done to your crossmember. Did you go up 3" in the frame? I thought I would need drop spindles to lay it.

[jlaird]

The first thing that I thought of when I read this post was what is he going to do with steering?? I guess I wasn't the only one. To answer some of your questions, nobody makes a rack & pinion "kit" for our trucks. There is only a couple guys here that have one (except the cool dropmember kids!) Your best bet is to contact or read the following post by dwcsr. Look at post #18. There is a word file there with details.

Good luck with it.

[chevychase]

Originally Posted by jlaird

The first thing that I thought of when I read this post was what is he going to do with steering?? I guess I wasn't the only one. To answer some of your questions, nobody makes a rack & pinion "kit" for our trucks. There is only a couple guys here that have one (except the cool dropmember kids!) Your best bet is to contact or read the following post by dwcsr. Look at post #18. There is a word file there with details.

Good luck with it.

Sorry for not being clear. Thanks for the cool link.

[jlaird]

Originally Posted by chevychase

Sorry for not being clear. Thanks for the cool link.

Oh, I didn't mean it like that. It's just that steering issues after a crossmember chop is known around here to be a PITA, so it's always interesting to see how each person goes about dealing with it.

Keep us updated.

[abadsvt]

You really can't just slap on the rack and pinion and be all good. The placement of the rack is very important. If the rack is off 1/8" from where it is needed to sit you will have more bump steer. If you decide to go with the rack you really need to do your homework to find out where it needs to go EXACTLY before doing it. Good Luck!!!!


Josh

[jlaird]

Originally Posted by abadsvt

You really can't just slap on the rack and pinion and be all good. The placement of the rack is very important. If the rack is off 1/8" from where it is needed to sit you will have more bump steer. If you decide to go with the rack you really need to do your homework to find out where it needs to go EXACTLY before doing it. Good Luck!!!!


Josh

which is why nobody bothers with it.

[chevychase]

Originally Posted by abadsvt

You really can't just slap on the rack and pinion and be all good. The placement of the rack is very important. If the rack is off 1/8" from where it is needed to sit you will have more bump steer. If you decide to go with the rack you really need to do your homework to find out where it needs to go EXACTLY before doing it. Good Luck!!!!


Josh

Point well taken. I'm still going over this with my fabricator. He is confident but I'm nervous. Like you said even an 1/8". There's not a lot of margin for error. I'll do some more homework before committing to doing it.

Thanks for all the responses!

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by chevychase

Point well taken. I'm still going over this with my fabricator. He is confident but I'm nervous. Like you said even an 1/8". There's not a lot of margin for error. I'll do some more homework before committing to doing it.

Thanks for all the responses!

If your fabricator is familiar/experienced with suspension/steering geometry and design the hardest part will be modding the factory member to accept the mounting points for the rack. Like others have mentioned, it is critical to locate the rack properly... if it's off just a little, it can cause some really funky steering issues. There is a reason that more peeps aren't running a rack and pinion/factory crossmember set-up.

[DM310]

You should have just Z'ed the frame 3", seems like its taking a lot more work doing it this way. Save yourself the headaches and just get a new crossmember and Z the frame and be done w/ it. That way you can still use the stock steering.

[brandonh]

Im not one for giving people my advise but i agree with DM310 i really would think about just zing the frame and doing away with the whole rack and pinion thing seems like alot of work and alot of thought, when u could z the frame and be done and start working on something else. seems like this way is very complecated for what your going to get out of it

[Simonstrucker]

Joe it looks pretty good glad that the parts are working for you.

[impala_631]

should have just done the z, its easier and better

[seaquester5]

chevychase,,,never got your p/m from classified,and just got back in town.Left you a p/m with my phone # or contact me at cquester5@comcast.net ......Bill

[shortbed70]

impala 631, are you using flux core wire or arc welding? What did you cut the frame with?

[XXL]

Originally Posted by porterbuilt

If your fabricator is familiar/experienced with suspension/steering geometry...

Problem with all these stock xmember methods is that you're still going to drag the LCA pivot points off the truck before you're on the ground. Better to buy PB's Dropmember, which raises this obstacle a bit and gets you a rack that's been engineered into the xmember design.

(OK, PB... where's my $5 for the big pitch?)

[azfab]

Originally Posted by chevychase

Thanks azfab! You have the same crossmember setup? Any differences? I'd like to see/hear what you have done to your crossmember. Did you go up 3" in the frame? I thought I would need drop spindles to lay it.

yeah i cut 1'' out of the frame and 2.'' out of the crossmember i lay frame!!!! with out dropspindels. i also did a 1.5 boady drop getting the pinch weld to the ground. but the steering is a pain if i could do it all over agin i would get a rack out of a 2000 chevy truck it would of been alot cheeper and less of a hassel!

[impala_631]

Originally Posted by shortbed70

impala 631, are you using flux core wire or arc welding? What did you cut the frame with?

cut with a sawzall and that pass was with a 220 mig loaded with flux core, i later put a 1/4"plate over that and hit it with the gas welder