Aisin AR5 Transmission Swap

[Markuli]

I've read of a couple people putting AX15's into their trucks, but has anyone installed the newer AR5? Did you use the Fab Bot kit, the Novak AX15 adapter kit, someone else's?

I'm looking into a lower- cost 5 speed swap as my M20 doesn't sound too healthy these days.

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by Markuli

I've read of a couple people putting AX15's into their trucks, but has anyone installed the newer AR5? Did you use the Fab Bot kit, the Novak AX15 adapter kit, someone else's?

I'm looking into a lower- cost 5 speed swap as my M20 doesn't sound too healthy these days.

What years had the AR5 transmission?

When I put the AX15 in my '34 Ford, behind the Chevy 377 stroker engine I used the Novak adapter and it worked very well. I don't have any road miles on it yet because I have a brake system problem but I have driven it around the driveway (long).

For the members that aren't familiar with the AX15 they were used in Jeep and Toyota vehicles. I presume the AR5 would be the same but I am not sure on those. They are supposed to be a pretty tough 5 speed OD transmission.

I would be interested in hearing about the AR5 experiences also.

LockDoc

[Markuli]

Glad to hear your hot rod likes the trans! Always puts a smile on my face when I see a Ford coupe with a Chevy powerplant...

From my reading, the AR5 has a couple GM variants. The two main sources of these transmissions are the Pontiac Solstice and the (more readily available) first gen 2003-2012 Colorado. FabBot, one of the guys who makes adapters, says he's abused these transmissions behind 600HP Ls motors and they've held up remarkably well.

The AR5's most notable external difference from the AX15 is that the AR5's 1 1/8" input shaft is 3/8" longer (along with being 26 spline vs 10 spline). The bolt pattern on the front of the case is exactly the same. If I use the Novak kit I'd have to space out the bell due to that extra length, but what would I have to do about my throwout bearing?

I've been leaning towards the Novak kit because I could keep my mechanical linkage, flywheel and bell. I'd have to go from my 12" clutch down to an 11" to find a cheap kit, though. If I were to go the FabBot route, I'd need to switch over to a hydraulic clutch setup as that kit uses the 4L60 bellhousing.

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by Markuli

Glad to hear your hot rod likes the trans! Always puts a smile on my face when I see a Ford coupe with a Chevy powerplant...

From my reading, the AR5 has a couple GM variants. The two main sources of these transmissions are the Pontiac Solstice and the (more readily available) first gen 2003-2012 Colorado. FabBot, one of the guys who makes adapters, says he's abused these transmissions behind 600HP Ls motors and they've held up remarkably well.

The AR5's most notable external difference from the AX15 is that the AR5's 1 1/8" input shaft is 3/8" longer (along with being 26 spline vs 10 spline). The bolt pattern on the front of the case is exactly the same. If I use the Novak kit I'd have to space out the bell due to that extra length, but what would I have to do about my throwout bearing?

I've been leaning towards the Novak kit because I could keep my mechanical linkage, flywheel and bell. I'd have to go from my 12" clutch down to an 11" to find a cheap kit, though. If I were to go the FabBot route, I'd need to switch over to a hydraulic clutch setup as that kit uses the 4L60 bellhousing.

My Novak kit came with a replacement front bearing retainer that accepted the Chevy throwout bearing. For the '34 I used the stock Chevy clutch parts and a T-Bird cable actuator for the clutch fork to pedal. In a '67-'72 Truck you should be able to use all of the stock clutch linkage with the Novak kit.

LockDoc

[Markuli]

Originally Posted by LockDoc

My Novak kit came with a replacement front bearing retainer that accepted the Chevy throwout bearing. For the '34 I used the stock Chevy clutch parts and a T-Bird cable actuator for the clutch fork to pedal. In a '67-'72 Truck you should be able to use all of the stock clutch linkage with the Novak kit.

LockDoc

So my current throwout bearing can be used, that's good to know. I think this is just more of a lack of basic general clutch knowledge on my end, but will my throwout bearing pose an issue if there's an extra 3/8" it needs to travel, since the trans will be 3/8" further from the clutch fingers?

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by Markuli

So my current throwout bearing can be used, that's good to know. I think this is just more of a lack of basic general clutch knowledge on my end, but will my throwout bearing pose an issue if there's an extra 3/8" it needs to travel, since the trans will be 3/8" further from the clutch fingers?

That won't make any difference.The clutch fork pivot ball is mounted to the bell housing and the throwout bearing sits in the yoke of the clutch fork, so the location of the transmission will have no bearing on the distance of the throwout bearing from the pressure plate or how far it travels.

LockDoc

[Markuli]

Originally Posted by LockDoc

That won't make any difference.The clutch fork pivot ball is mounted to the bell housing and the throwout bearing sits in the yoke of the clutch fork, so the location of the transmission will have no bearing on the distance of the throwout bearing from the pressure plate or how far it travels.

LockDoc

I think I worded my last reply incorrectly. I'm almost certain that I need to run a bell spacer to account for the longer shaft. So the bell would be further back, and so my clutch fork and therefore TO bearing are also 3/8" back because they're indexed with the bell like you said. Am I making sense?

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by Markuli

I think I worded my last reply incorrectly. I'm almost certain that I need to run a bell spacer to account for the longer shaft. So the bell would be further back, and so my clutch fork and therefore TO bearing are also 3/8" back because they're indexed with the bell like you said. Am I making sense?

The spacer should be built into the transmission to bellhousing adapter. You shouldn't need anything between the engine and bellhousing.

LockDoc

[MusicMan70]

Looks to be a pretty nice alternative.
Here are some links and information I was able to pull up.
I did read/watch them all and they are valid at time of posting, but I've not done this swap. I'm just sharing what I found.




General Motors used the AR-5 as RPO MA5.

Gear ratios:
1st-3.75, 2nd- 2.26, 3rd- 1.37, 4th-1.00, 5th- .73, Rev- 3.67


https://www.fabbotfab.com/collection...ssion-adapters

https://youtu.be/O1tsFmjqRUo


The AR-5 is a 5-speed manual transmission manufactured by Aisin. It is designed for longitudinal engine applications and can handle up to 225 ft•lbf (305 N•m) of torque.
Transmissions are rated according to application, not capability. That just means that the highest rated car with an AR5 thus far produced 225 ft-lbs of torque

the box was officially rated at "260 ft/lbs" but the Toyota Supra and Lexus IS300 community has proven that that isn't exactly true. Supposedly it lives up to about 600 ft/lbs so long as you don't abuse it. It was also the transmission used in the Mallet LS2 powered Solstices. It's an upgraded Supra R154 box with double synchros on 1/2/3



Here’s a great link with info and photo’s as well.
http://www.montecarloss.com/communit...77&type=thread


YOUTUBE Transmission in a Nova
Part 1- https://youtu.be/MkVUT62E8S0

Part 2 -https://youtu.be/S02-X1bQMMo

And just FYI, Matt from FabBot just dyno'd his setup with the AR5 and pulled 882hp / 784tq at the rear wheels so the AR5 is one tough transmission



According to Rockland Standard Gear the strength of a manual transmission is defined by the centerline distance between the mainshaft and the cluster gear shaft, as well as the spline and diameter of the input and output shafts.

For reference the AR5 has an 82mm centerline distance, a 26 spline input shaft and a 27 spline output and the input shaft bearing is capable of handling a 510 newton meters.

The TKO600 has an 83mm centerline distance, a 26 spline input shaft and a 31 spline output shaft

The F-body 98-02 T-56 has an 85mm centerline distance, a 26 spline input shaft and a 27 spline output shaft

General Motors used the AR-5 as RPO MA5.

[jessemthompson]

I realize this is an old thread, but I AR5 swapped my 5.3 72 C10. I really like the trans. Beats all the 4L60e issues I was having.

[Markuli]

Glad to hear it! My M20 is still holding on for the moment so I haven't made the jump yet.

['68OrangeSunshine]

I've heard about the A833, But this is new to me.

[atomicredneck]

Originally Posted by jessemthompson

I realize this is an old thread, but I AR5 swapped my 5.3 72 C10. I really like the trans. Beats all the 4L60e issues I was having.

Which tunnel did you have and did you have to modify it to fit the ar5?

[jessemthompson]

I have the low hump trans tunnel. No modifications other than cutting the hole for the shifter.

[atomicredneck]

Originally Posted by jessemthompson

I have the low hump trans tunnel. No modifications other than cutting the hole for the shifter.

Perfect, thanks!

[Craftwerks]

Originally Posted by jessemthompson

I have the low hump trans tunnel. No modifications other than cutting the hole for the shifter.

I know it's been a while but curious how the AR5 has held up and if you happen to have any photos of it installed. I'm about to do one on my 64 and just curious about where it might sit in the trans tunnel!

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by Craftwerks

I know it's been a while but curious how the AR5 has held up and if you happen to have any photos of it installed. I'm about to do one on my 64 and just curious about where it might sit in the trans tunnel!

Mine is the AX15 but it looks like it is pretty much the same trans. No problems with mine behind the Chevy 377ci in the '34 Ford Coupe and I don't baby it much. I don't know where the shifter tower sits on the AR5 compared to this AX15 but the tower is back a ways farther than some of the other 5 speeds on this one....

[49chevy3100]

I used the AR5 in my 51 5.3turbo set up used the fabbot kit 4l60bell housing and t56 clutch set up based on their instructions and watched sloppy mechanics test out the set up held up to 900ftlb torque on YouTube dyno session. I will post pictures later used the wilwood clutch pedal set up and t56 remote bleeding kit to make clutch bleeding easier.

[49chevy3100]

Will take better pictures of fitment these are ones I found on my phone

[solidaxel]

For a good AR 5 what is the good price for one?

[LS short box]

Price wise I would on Car-Part.com and search what ever vehicle they came on.
I used a AX15 in a 99 Wrangler 4.8 LS swap. Got the parts from Novak. Worked well.

[D-n-Tyke]

Is there a way to make this work with a stock "muncie" bolt pattern bellhousing? That way the stock mechanical clutch can be retained?
Will the FABbot adapter bolt up to the stock bellhousing? Or does someone else make one. This trans looks like a great option, but really don't want to move to a hydraulic clutch.

[jjzepplin]

What are the advantages over a T56? Do you have to mod the trans to handle the extra HP? 260 Ft LBs doesn't seem like much. What am I missing? Fits better? Shifter position?

[Craftwerks]

I'm working on one for my 64 to go behind an LS swap. I got the adapter plate from Nick Jacobs at RedEagle Raceparts (off facebook). I have not figured out the hydro clutch pedal yet but I doubt I will be spending money on the wilwood setup and will most likely fabircate something between the original clutch pedal and Master cylinder. I'm also attempting to adapt a Toyota EPAS unit. I just need to make the bracket for that before I move on to the clutch stuff. The only thing I have not done yet, due to having a bad shoulder right now, is test fit the trans up in the tunnel to start figuring out where and what to cut. I'm curious if anyone that's fitting it has pictures of how the colorado shifter sits in the interior and how it lines up so far.

Just to clarify I am talking about the Colorado AR-5, nto the ax-115 or whatever

[Craftwerks]

Originally Posted by jjzepplin

What are the advantages over a T56? Do you have to mod the trans to handle the extra HP? 260 Ft LBs doesn't seem like much. What am I missing? Fits better? Shifter position?

It comes down to cost savings and budget. You can get a used ar5 for around 600 to 750, often less if you have a decent u-pull with good prices and supply. Adapter plate for around 300. New 4l60E bellhousing for 70. New clutch plate for LS vette and flywheel for whatever that costs depending on brand. hydraulic throwout bearing is a stock colorado unit for around 45. Master cylinder and line for under 70. After that you can fabricate the parts to adapt to your original clutch pedal and firewall mount (or buy them). If you just buy the hard parts and can fabricate the rest of the stuff you will have a 5 speed transmission that can handle a cammed LS motor for a fraction of the cost than just trying to buy a t56 by itself in most cases.