Small-Window in a '68? Harry Bradley's first design?

[54blackhornet]

The last option entry available for the 67 model year, as posted in the first edition Price & Facts Book, dated Oct 1966, under Optional Equipment, is (Window), Full-View Rear : (Cabs) Code A10, List Price $40.00 Factory D&H $3.05 Mfr's Sgt'd Retail Delvr'd $43.05,...There is No mention of the term Panoramic window as listed on SPIDS ! That term is also not mentioned in the 64,65, or 66 order guides I have in my collection, Option Code & Price is the same between 64 and 67.........The only NC options I see listed is Wood Bed E81, Nameplate, Custom Camper Z81 & Paint, Exterior: Solid color.....hope this help you guy's

[John Gilbert]

Originally Posted by 54blackhornet

The last option entry available for the 67 model year, as posted in the first edition Price & Facts Book, dated Oct 1966, under Optional Equipment, is (Window), Full-View Rear : (Cabs) Code A10, List Price $40.00 Factory D&H $3.05 Mfr's Sgt'd Retail Delvr'd $43.05,...There is No mention of the term Panoramic window as listed on SPIDS ! That term is also not mentioned in the 64,65, or 66 order guides I have in my collection, Option Code & Price is the same between 64 and 67.........The only NC options I see listed is Wood Bed E81, Nameplate, Custom Camper Z81 & Paint, Exterior: Solid color.....hope this help you guy's

This really dials it in, thank you very much! There is a box on the '68 buildsheets for a Panoramic rear window. At least on my '68 GMC built in 9/67 there is.

[Longhorn Man]

that wrecker is the closest thing to proof of the elusive small window light duty 68 truck, and I see a few problems with it as far as pointing to it as rock hard proof. For years the closest thing anyone here has had was "My cousin Ray Ray had a friend who's dad had..." I have been asking for years on here (and in my own observations) looking for a fairly original 68 with the small window.
This wrecker is far from original. It was a C/20 with a bed orignally. We know that from the VIN. It has had daul rear wheels added, the bed swapped, high hump and 4 speed put in... we've all seen 'magic work' done on VIN plates, even 20 + years ago people were swapping VINs. The wing vents, ignition switch and cigar lighter, while convincing... there's something on the VIN that is not very convincing. Look at the last half of the VIN. The Z tells us it was built at the Fremont plant in California. If I'm not mistaken, I think that plant had 2 truck assembly lines, and even if it didn't, it was still a high volume plant. This truck was the 50,488th truck off that line. That would put it well into the 68 model year. I have a hard time swallowing that they still had "leftover' cabs from 6 months ago. (guestimating on the 6 months part)
Without solid proof, I would never publish something where all the documentation and people's observations say it isn't so. I personally don't believe a small window 68 exists, but I don't rule it out.
I would never use something like that wrecker as proof. Not without a hard core CSI type inspection on that rig.

As for the build sheet saying a 68 had the panoramic window... sometimes when an item becomes standard, the builder still treats it like an option. Example, 67 was the first year GM had the heater as a standard feature in there light duty truck line. Even so, just about every 67 you'll find has it listed on the SPID as an option, same with the build sheet. I have papers from GMC that was deliveed to the dealer, saying that even though it is standard, if it is not listed on the options requested list on an order form, the truck will come without the heater and the truck will come with a credit for the price difference.

[too much stuff]

I am really siding with andy on this one. Too many things have been changed around on that truck right down to the 73 and newer front bumper. And as mentioned, column shifter originally, now 4 speed, 3/4 ton with dually rear. It feels like we are missing something about it. It is kind of like the rear tow hooks. Still waiting to actually see a set mounted and listed like the fronts. Heard of it, just waiting for documentation.

[special-K]

I seriously doubt someone would go to the effort to use rosette rivets on an otherwise p.o.s. swapamatic thrown together junk haulin' tow wagon. Trying to create a rare and desirable truck? Yeah,but I say that cab is unaltered.

Edit: I have seen rear tow hooks listed on SPIDs and have a set with part number. They breally do exist. I'm not lying

[Longhorn Man]

some places inspect the VIN to register... I just can't see the plant holding onto a cab while they made fifty thousand more cabs. What did they do, put it in the tool shed and forget about it?

[toms68cst]

That wrecker is an interesting truck when looking at the 68/small window theory. I think Series 40 and up medium duty trucks could be had with a small or large window.There may be some dealer literature that might confuse the issue when researching this question.

I think Harry Bently Bradley worked on several GM projects in the early to mid 60's. I've tried to find his hand in some other GM cars of that vintage. The only design theme I see carried around in some of his design of that period is the shark nose shape which the 67 and 68 GM trucks have.

I know he quit GM around 69 to design for Hotwheels. He has a really interesting life story and is most closely tied to hotwheels. If you google DEORA you can see another pickup design he did in the 60's. He also did the original wienermobile for Oscar Myer.

[basemodel67]

GM made a crapload of small window cabs after '67 - 99% of all the big trucks were small windows. Yes, I know we are talking about 1/2,3/4 and 1-tons... I just didn't want to leave the big guys out!

[CSGAS]

IIRC Harry worked for Buick first at GM, and at Fisher body as a contractor before getting hired directly. I thought he had a hand in some concept or show cars from 58, and that would again typically be as a contractor.

That's strictly from memory, it'll be days before I can free up the time to double-check like I usually do before speaking, so you may want to check each of those yourself before taking my word for it.

[VA72C10]

love reading threads like this to expand my knowledge on these trucks

[John Gilbert]

Quote from Longhorn Man: "As for the build sheet saying a 68 had the panoramic window... sometimes when an item becomes standard, the builder still treats it like an option. Example, 67 was the first year GM had the heater as a standard feature in there light duty truck line. Even so, just about every 67 you'll find has it listed on the SPID as an option, same with the build sheet. I have papers from GMC that was deliveed to the dealer, saying that even though it is standard, if it is not listed on the options requested list on an order form, the truck will come without the heater and the truck will come with a credit for the price difference."[/QUOTE]

And that's where my journey began. I found the buildsheet for my '68 GMC built 9/67 was still under the seat and spotted the box for a Panaoramic window. Number 1. I was amazed to see it referred to as a Panoramic window. #2. I know the factory didn't change the forms right away, and it was likely a holdover, but it got me to wondering. My conclusion takes up about a page in the article. I'm sorry, but I can't say another thing until after the magazine hits the newsstand.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, trust me I needed all the help I could get on this one.

[brad_man_72]

lol john, you're the professional!
I tried to send you an email, I don't think it worked. So I sent you a pm.

my 67 has a small window.

[John Gilbert]

Originally Posted by brad_man_72

lol john, you're the professional!
I tried to send you an email, I don't think it worked. So I sent you a pm.

my 67 has a small window.

Change the VIN to a '68 then I won't have to re-write part of the story.

I don't have a cell phone, call the phone booth on the corner of Pico and Sepulveda, and have the guy that sells watches from a trenchcoat write down a message. Don't worry I'll get it.

See you in LA!

[special-K]

Those rivets on that wrecker look like they've been there...oh,I'd say 42 years? My gut says that's the real deal. Maybe what happened is GM had surplus cab back panels,then decided to go ahead and use them up while the next of kin '68 run was still rolling rather than be stuck with them. They had a tendency to scrap large arts rather than warehouse them. It wouldn't have been a high demand replacement part and if one was needed they could supply (what would have been thought of as more desirable) a large window panel. I know there were no 67/68 floor panels available by the end of this run of trucks because the arts books refer you to use the 69-72 floor with instructions to cut the necessary 67/68 areas out of the vehicle being repaired's floor and patch in.

In the end,'68s weren't supposed to get small windows and the panoramic window became a standard,but..............there are a few rare exceptions...I believe.

[67chevemall]

Originally Posted by dan42

There was a discussion on this in another thread and I believe it was determined that there were a few '68's with small back windows - early ones, using up the old stock of cabs.

X2

[SOON2BLAZE]

Has anyone considered that there are 67-72 c50 & c60 IIRC that that have a small back window. These cabs are the same with the exception of the giant wheel wells that extend into the floor boards. Any chance the 68 tow truck was sent out to a coach builder? Just things I was pondering.

[Longhorn Man]

med duty cabs need a TON of work to fit a light duty truck. The whole firewall and front of the door opening is different.

[oldgold70c10]

This thread has become quite interesting. I wish I remembered more about and/or had looked more at
the differences and similarities of the C50's cab that I had and the c10. My 1970 C50 had the small back window. Like special K says, that vin tag looks like its been there a long while.

On a similar note, what about late model year 67's that had side marker reflectors? I recall one at the 2007 board meet in Norwood.

[oldgold70c10]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

This wrecker is far from original. It was a C/20 with a bed orignally. We know that from the VIN. It has had daul rear wheels added, the bed swapped, high hump and 4 speed put in...

I was just checking that out and am a little confused. Coding it out like I think your doing says stepside for the wrecker, but it also says stepside on my own truck and it is a factory fleetside. Are you thinking of the model number that is usually on the SPID? That gives a lot more data than the VIN.

[special-K]

The 67-72 medium duty cabs would share the same rear panel with light duties,wouldn't it? So,GM had the back panels through '72. I doubt this truck is a coach-built cab...why? Just look at the pictures. If you want to point out nitpickin' details,show me what makes anyone think that cab is not an unaltered original paint (interior & door jambs) cab. I do believe it could be a '68 C/20 cab swap or,more likely,a 3/4t pickup that had a 1t rear,4spd,tow body,and later front bumper swapped to it. I'm just focused on the cab since who knows what else has been done to this truck.

[oldgold70c10]

I think everything is the same except the lower parts of the fire wall, hinge pillars and floors near the kick panels. I'm basing this on photos I have, so not 100%. So, yes, same rear panels.

[toms68cst]

I don't think it wasn't too uncommon back in the 70's for body shop men to do some crazy patching/melding between salvaged vehicles to make one complete vehicle. I wonder if it could be a 67 roof on a 68 lower cab. Stranger things have happened. It's pretty obviously some kind of mutt.

Back before they tracked salvage vehicles in computer databases things like that went on. Nowadays if a vehicle more than a few years old gets its air bags set off it's totaled.

I'm not suprised that the panoramic window is listed on 68 vehicle build sheets even though it wasn't an official option. It took GM about a year before they stopped calling the Cheyenne option the CST option on glovebox doors and build sheets on the '71 models.

Does that truck still exist? Could it be inspected more closely? It would be really interesting to get a closer look.

[ChevLoRay]

The small rear window was also the standard rear window for some of the larger trucks, i.e., 40-series and up. Up to a point, the cabs were similar, too.

[SOON2BLAZE]

Originally Posted by special-K

The 67-72 medium duty cabs would share the same rear panel with light duties,wouldn't it? So,GM had the back panels through '72. I doubt this truck is a coach-built cab...why? Just look at the pictures. If you want to point out nitpickin' details,show me what makes anyone think that cab is not an unaltered original paint (interior & door jambs) cab. I do believe it could be a '68 C/20 cab swap or,more likely,a 3/4t pickup that had a 1t rear,4spd,tow body,and later front bumper swapped to it. I'm just focused on the cab since who knows what else has been done to this truck.

I'm not saying it's coach built, just trying to think outside the box, chevy did have those small window rear panels somewhere for the bigger trucks and it's the same for the c series ( my half cab is derived from a c-50). When they needed parts on the lines ( that often times shared multiple models) they had to get em built and out the door. Great thread!

[Longhorn Man]

Originally Posted by oldgold70c10

I was just checking that out and am a little confused. Coding it out like I think your doing says stepside for the wrecker, but it also says stepside on my own truck and it is a factory fleetside. Are you thinking of the model number that is usually on the SPID? That gives a lot more data than the VIN.

You are confusing the model number and vin decode. The 4 on a VIN denotes cab and bed (no specifics on what kind of bed. A cab and chassis, a cowl and chassis, blazer, burb, panel... all have there own digit instead of the 4.
Check out this link http://67-72chevytrucks.com/Chevyear.html for a very good VIN decode for 95% of the members on here. It doesn't go into the other models other than pickups, and it's missing a few other details, but more the vast majority on here, it does the trick. Then below that is the model number decoder which does tell you what kind of bed it should have.