rust removal by electrolysis

[Muleman100]

Thanks fleetsidelarry, I have the clamp touching the water. I am using the clamp from the charger attached directly to the hood spring. I will clean off a spot on the part and keep the clamp out of the water and see if it makes a difference. Yes, the charger was putting out. What do you think of placing another charger ( same 15 amps ) on the other side of the tank?

[fleetsidelarry]

Originally Posted by Muleman100

Thanks fleetsidelarry, I have the clamp touching the water. I am using the clamp from the charger attached directly to the hood spring. I will clean off a spot on the part and keep the clamp out of the water and see if it makes a difference. Yes, the charger was putting out. What do you think of placing another charger ( same 15 amps ) on the other side of the tank?

I wouldn't think that another charger would make much difference except on really big tanks. I Like 72's did a whole hood (earlier in this thread), but I don't know whether his had more than one current source. I only have second hand information on this aspect (my tank is a tupperware storage container, only 10 or 15 gallons), but from what I've read, more is not necessarily better when it comes to current.

Originally Posted by 63sbssbbw

But where to find a charger these days that doesn;t have the short out safety built into it,I tried it with a new one and I figured that's why it didn't work
Also I have read 2 amps maximum and on another write up I read 6-10 amps??
T

63sbssbbw, I was curious whether you got your 'new-style' battery charger to work

[Muleman100]

Thanks to fleetsidelarry for making suggestions that got me on the right track. I am now removing rust by electrolysis. It turned out to be a faulty battery charger.

[Street Sweeper]

Has anybody ever tried this on a set of brake drums? I'm a little concerned about the embrittlement I've read about here. Not sure if it would be a problem or not.

Any thoughts?

[bubba327]

I am liking this process! I cleaned up a a rusty set of springs in about three hours each.




Ready to paint!! Starting with red oxide primer

[Muleman100]

I ct off a 55 gal poly barrel and I can put about 30 gal of water and soda mix in it. I attached four long pieces of rebar equally apart around the inside of the barrel and connected them all with heavy wire. Then all that was left was attaching the battery charger to one of the post of rebar and the other the the piece I want to derust. I have done about 5 parts but it is there and ready to use whenver. I like to use this because it works unattended.

[aerotruk63]

Could you not coil the rebar to the inside diameter of the bucket or barrel?

[bubba327]

I use a chunk of fencing that I rolled up and stuffed in the bucket around the outside wall. It works better after the galvanizing came off. I had to add a rebar or two at first. I use a steel tie wire with stainless hose clamp for the under water connection, then wrap it around the PVC pipe and clamp it down with the Black lead above water.
I have cleaned so much stuff since discovering this process, No more breathing rust dust with a grinder and wire wheel!! .

[Muleman100]

Just like bubba327 states anything you can wrap around the inside of the container will work. Like they say it is directional so if you go all the way around it is better. I am going to double the amount of rebar that I have even though mine works fine now. I really like this process it is easy,clean, just put it in and forget it for a while. Mine has a permanent place in my shop.

[slorio]

One note of caution on doing this inside your shop. This process generates hydrogen gas which is explosive. It is better to do this outside where you have some air flow to clear out the hydrogen gas than inside where it is trapped.
Regards,
Steve
New Orleans

[andyh1956]

you know one of my buddies has a setup like this in the back of his truck. he is making hyd gas & has it plumbed to the intake of the engine. he says he is getting free fuel, but he is on his third alternator. he has only blown up one generator so far. but this could be a whole new market- de-rust while you drive! just put your rusty parts in your hyd generator & by time your home from work parts are clean! hey i use 50 / 50 water & white vinegar to derust- wonder if the solution would benefit from vinegar in it?
andy

[Malibob]

The smaller the charger the longer it takes. I used rebar too and it didnt seem to work as well. I did half a wheel and it stripped the paint and removed the rust. I thought it worked well, but took forever. I tried a smaller part and it went much quicker.

I would have to think there is some relation to what metal is "pulling" the rust to what metal is "dropping" the rust. I want to try a pc. of sheetmetal and wrap around the container then dip my part. Think it may work better.

[Muleman100]

You are so correct slorio, I only keep it own when I have all three of my roll up doors open. I have left it on overnight but I have a full ridge vent and I open the doors immediately first thing in the morning. You offered some very good advice.

[63sbssbbw]

Not yet Larry
But I did find an old school one and tried it out
After 3 hrs it only seemed to remove the looser rust,the tight surface rust was still evident,after leaving it overnight same thing
I'm going to play around with how I've got it wired up
The more I think about it : current takes the path of least resistance which is at the surface of the solution (this why fish don't fry when lightning hits the ocean),so I'm thinking I might try isolating an anode to the bottom of the tank forcing the current to pass through the solution instead of just at the surface
Any thoughts on this theory
Thanks,T

[fleetsidelarry]

63sbssbbw: I'd agree that the current is going to seek the path of least resistance (which is one reason not to put anything carrying current into the solution but the rusty part itself. for instance, if you attach the battery charger clamp directly to the part and lower the clamp into the solution, the path of least resistance will be between the clamp to the rebar instead of between your rusty part and the rebar, and you'll reduce the effectiveness of the process) but I don't see why that "least resistance" path would necessarily be at the surface. It doesn't seem to be in the properly working versions I've seen, including my own.

IMO it sounds more like bad connections. As I mention before to Muleman, I make an effort to make sure that the current is going to and through the part. Over-night should show significant results.

It won't hurt to put an anode on the bottom but you'd have to be extra careful not to let the part to be cleaned touch it.

I guess your "new school" charger is still kicking off?

[fleetsidelarry]

Originally Posted by Rhoff2009

It shouldn't cause embrittlement, the embrittlement would be caused when hydrogen from the solution gets trapped in flaws in the metal and the metal is allowed to cool down trapping the hydrogen in the flaw. I would think that would only happen if you had the drum at a very high temperature and immersed it in a bath of water with a high hydrogen concentration and then allowed it to cool. Like greater than 100 cc/kg high concentration, and since your tank is open to atmosphere the gas will just vent off, lowering the concentration.

Originally Posted by Street Sweeper

Has anybody ever tried this on a set of brake drums? I'm a little concerned about the embrittlement I've read about here. Not sure if it would be a problem or not.

Any thoughts?

Actually, from what I've read, the process does cause hydrogen embrittlement

[fleetsidelarry]

from an article on rust removal by electolysis in Rod & Custom:

[Rhoff2009]

Originally Posted by fleetsidelarry

from an article on rust removal by electolysis in Rod & Custom:

I'm looking for some more info on it. Not to say that the article is wrong, I just think that more info is always better. I'm doing my brake spindles tonight, and i'm not all that concerned about it, but maybe I will find something that will tell me that it wasn't a good idea. I work in the nuclear field and the materials that we are concerned about hydrogen embrittlement on, are significantly different than the spindle I'm working on. While I do have my doubts, I will not say that it won't happen, you should always use your own judgement.

[bubba327]

So it appears that a little time in the oven at 375-400 cancels the excess hydrogen causing the embrittlement.
I agree with not exceeding the temperature suggested as tempered parts such as springs would begin annealing.
Well, I missed the one hour window on the coil springs , so I will let you know if they fail in the future.
Thanks for the updated information , keep it coming!

[63sbssbbw]

Well, I finally got it to work,I tried it on a regulator cover and came out like new
I never did try my newer charger again as the older one seems to work fine
I'm mostly going to use this method for small,tedious stuff like bolts and springs and the likes.
I think my biggest trouble was connection,my next improvement will be to solder the
wire (from the part) to the electrode thus eliminating a weak link ,since this charger will only see this duty I may also cut off the clamps and solder those as well.
I like Bubbas' idea of surrounding the part, for the size of stuff I'm doing I'm thinking the mesh from an air filter might do the trick
BTW, anyone notice washing soda seems to absorb odor, wonder if that's what they put in fabreeze LOL
Thanks,T

[bubba327]

I had trouble finding the "Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda". so I followed the sites instructions on converting baking soda in the oven. It worked just fine but a PIA.
My local Ace hardware store can get me the Super Washing Soda.
They have it on their website/inventories but do not stock it in all the stores.
They will order it in for you with the regular weekly shipments.
It was around $3.79 for a 55 oz box.

[Captainfab]

I was just going to ask where you guys are finding the 'washing soda' I looked at one store and they didn't have it. I was thinking about checking a hardware store. I wonder if Potassium Hydroxide or Sodium Hydroxide would work as a substitute? It may not be any easier to find though, without ordering it.

Originally Posted by bubba327

I had trouble finding the "Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda". so I followed the sites instructions on converting baking soda in the oven. It worked just fine but a PIA.
My local Ace hardware store can get me the Super Washing Soda.
They have it on their website/inventories but do not stock it in all the stores.
They will order it in for you with the regular weekly shipments.
It was around $3.79 for a 55 oz box.

[fleetsidelarry]

in the Rod and Custom article I posted an excerpt from earlier, it show them using a product called "pH Plus" from the local pool supply store.

We couldn't find "wash soda" either when we set up our little tank, just used Arm & Hammer detergent, which seems to work just fine (but may not be as environmentally friendly).

[Muleman100]

I bought my Washing Soda at Krogers in the detergent section. I think the lye would be too caustic to handle.

[bubba327]

The attachment article in original first post said you could make your own washing soda by using Arm and Hammer baking soda by baking it in the oven at 300*F on a cookie sheet which drives away water and a CO molecule. That part is easy enough but a little messy getting it off the cookie sheet and back in a zip-lock bag for dry storage. I thought that since you just baked out excess water it should not absorb humidity stored in the garage.
Baking soda is pretty cheap also. Since you do not use very much washing soda per 5 gallon batch of solution, My original box of baking soda I converted lasted me over 6 months of busy use . A 55oz box should last me a very long time in 5 gallon batches.
I just pull out the wire grid from the bucket and snap a plastic lid on tight and it keeps fine. It does not appear to "wear out", it just gets really cruddy.