Register or Log In To remove these advertisements. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
10-18-2011, 04:30 PM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Valley Center KS
Posts: 3,524
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
would this engine be covered under warranty? Does GM specify the use of additives on their non-roller crate engines?
|
10-18-2011, 06:14 PM | #27 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 764
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
Here is another thread with an email response from STP back in 2007. http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/anyt...red-label.html I could be wrong (6 lug wheels LOL) but I believe at this time there in no ZDDP in STP oil treatment. There is no mention of it on their site. If it was in there you can bet they would be advertising it. http://www.stp.com/products/oil-addi...oil-treatment/ This is a very heavily debated subject. Not only "Is ZDDP in the oil? but "How much is enough?" Everyone should do the research make their own decision on what to use. Be sure to check bottles and dates on the info because it does change. You may find some product on the shelf that has ZDDP right now only to find the next time you buy it the product no longer does. I can only speak for my experience. I have a mild flat tappet 425 HP Pontiac 400 in my jet boat. I broke it in on VR-1 and still run VR-1. It gets rung out pretty hard through the summer and after 3 seasons on the lake I have had no cam/lifter issues.
__________________
72 Cheyenne Super 1/2 LWB White/Dark Yellow 07 Avalanche 2LT 74 Sleek Craft Rebel Jet Boat W/Pontiac 400 Last edited by OhOneWS6; 10-18-2011 at 06:39 PM. |
|
10-18-2011, 06:28 PM | #28 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego California
Posts: 1,316
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
All I know is that the pan was spick-N-span just 1000 before when I powder coated it. So all the sludge and metal shavings occured after the Mobil One. There was no evidence of wear when I powder coated the pan. *
__________________
I'd rather attempt something great and fail.. than try something ordinary and succeed. Norman Vincent Peale Project: Barn Raising http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414961 Project: 30 Be Low https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=830583 |
|
10-18-2011, 06:30 PM | #29 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: san bernardino ca. everywhere
Posts: 3,938
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
damn dude that sucks , best of luck with this problem
|
10-18-2011, 06:45 PM | #30 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the netherlands europe
Posts: 4,335
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
i heared about Shell Rotella engineoil thats used in farm equipment that still has the propperties of the old oils
__________________
i got a job again and having fun at it too idea's for the trucks and the order of things to do are taking shape and get closer to being realized , a few more months and i be able to start building for real i complete 2 of the trucks intoo running fashion one custom and one basicly stock the thirth will be sacrificed for parts |
10-18-2011, 06:56 PM | #31 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego California
Posts: 1,316
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
I don't know if you remember what it sounded like at the show but in addition to the bent rod there were 4 out of 16 lobes on the cam that were almost round with no lobe anymore. I am surprised it ran at all.
__________________
I'd rather attempt something great and fail.. than try something ordinary and succeed. Norman Vincent Peale Project: Barn Raising http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414961 Project: 30 Be Low https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=830583 |
10-18-2011, 07:09 PM | #32 |
454 MAKES IT ROAR
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Essex, U.K
Posts: 2,701
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
What did the lifters look like that had ran on those worn lobes Mike?
__________________
Nigel. An American living in a British body. 1971 Chevy Cheyenne 10 454 "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty" - Thomas Jefferson No more pain. 03.12.60 -- 12.28.10 http://www.youtube.com/Eightbanger |
10-18-2011, 07:12 PM | #33 |
Florida Edition
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fruitland Park, FL
Posts: 4,028
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
The link Zepp posted explains the nomenclature of the chemistry involved in all this, that's why I recommend reading the whole thing. It gives us a basis to make a smart choice depending on the application.
My question is this: If I have a basic flat tappet big block and don't want to spend a fortune on oil, what is the best additive readily available? I'm not going to be thrashing mine...much, and will be changing oil every 1000 or so. I know lots of guys reading this live in small towns and don't have access to exotics so what's on the shelf for them...and me. If I figure it out before someone else posts it I'll post it.The hunt begins tomorrow. Thanks Posted via Mobile Device
__________________
70 GMC Short Stepside "Rose"-An American Beauty: Factory 402/TH400, AM/FM, AC, Tilt, Tach, Buckets, Posi, PS, PB, 3-5 Drop, Complete Resto-Rod 67 C-20 Slant Back Wrecker "Mad Max" 67 C-10 Ratrod "Step-N-Wolf" 71 Serro Scotty Sportsman camper "Scotty" 97 LT1 Z28 "The Hornet" Link to more pics of "Rose" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...p?albumid=1684 Check out my "Cheap Tricks" thread and add to it if you can, lots of good info there. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=489394 |
10-18-2011, 07:17 PM | #34 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
Posts: 97
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Just a quick (possible stupid) question-- do not want to highkack.....
I have a stock 1971 blazer 350 sbc.....is this a flat tappett -- needing the xtra zinc...or a roller that I am ok with normal motor oil? thanks jon |
10-18-2011, 07:50 PM | #35 | |
454 MAKES IT ROAR
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Essex, U.K
Posts: 2,701
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
There is a wealth of info on this whole subject on the web, seems everyone is taking about it and most are recomending Valvoline VR1 with 75% more zinc/ZDDP.
__________________
Nigel. An American living in a British body. 1971 Chevy Cheyenne 10 454 "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty" - Thomas Jefferson No more pain. 03.12.60 -- 12.28.10 http://www.youtube.com/Eightbanger |
|
10-19-2011, 03:44 AM | #36 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: san bernardino ca. everywhere
Posts: 3,938
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
...... yah that aint good, and im surprised it ran as well after finding that out, also, yah i vaguely remember how it sounded, and it wasn't very good now we know why
|
10-19-2011, 04:55 AM | #37 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Denton, texas 76209
Posts: 9
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
What is you'll opion of Royal Purple?
|
10-19-2011, 09:43 AM | #38 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: East Sooke B.C. Canada
Posts: 543
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
|
10-19-2011, 10:00 AM | #39 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: East Sooke B.C. Canada
Posts: 543
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
The Joe Gibbs oil site has some realy good info. Cant find the link any more. It basicaly says that if the oil is for sale for street use it is no good for flat tappet cams. If you have an old, stock engine you will probably be ok with just using an additive. As soon as you get into a cam profile that will put you over 260 hp your doomed without using an offroad use only oil. The reason that all the good stuff was removed from the oil is because it shortens the life of the catalitic converters. We went through engine troubles when they removed the lead from gas. The manufacturers new this was comming, as thats one of the reasons they start rollerizeing there engines in the early 90's , and by late 90's they are pretty much all roller cam/roller rockers. For us chevy guys I have found a cheep fix is a used vortec. Just about done converting my daughters 72 Blazer to a vortec with aluminum heads and a bit bigger Roller cam. Shes taking her sweet time getting it done,,,,,, I can't wait. I'm thinking it should be around 350 to 400 hp. for $3000, and no more $100 oil changes.
|
10-19-2011, 11:08 AM | #40 |
Grandpa in the rustmobile...
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Spokane WA/Viola TN
Posts: 11,422
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Ticker had an FAQ on oils..
Ive been using VR1 because it says 'for flat tappet camshafts' on the back.
__________________
John Goose-1968 C10 355,9.32-1CR, Vortec Heads ,262 voodoo, 3.73:1 3OTT (HS ride/beater/farm truck) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=317684 Grams 53-1953 Chevrolet Belair http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post4327784 1969 Chevy C10 Shortbed 4.5/6?" Frame off resto http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=548136 1999 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 |
10-19-2011, 11:17 AM | #41 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 784
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
This is a link to an excellent paper on motor oils in general written by a dude who would appear to thoroughly enjoy his subject:
http://www.motor-oil-engineers.com/M...eers%20PDF.pdf If you don't want to read all 29,000 pages, just do a document search for "zinc." While it doesn't specifically address this particular issue, it explains very well what the zinc does, and why we need it. I emailed the author this morning with a link to this thread, and asked if he'd be kind enough to give us a recommendation for a proper oil. If you read through the document, you'll see he's not in favor of additives of any kind, and he lays out his reasons with solid justifications. I'll let you know if he replies to my email. |
10-19-2011, 11:23 AM | #42 |
Grandpa in the rustmobile...
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Spokane WA/Viola TN
Posts: 11,422
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
__________________
John Goose-1968 C10 355,9.32-1CR, Vortec Heads ,262 voodoo, 3.73:1 3OTT (HS ride/beater/farm truck) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=317684 Grams 53-1953 Chevrolet Belair http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post4327784 1969 Chevy C10 Shortbed 4.5/6?" Frame off resto http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=548136 1999 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 |
10-19-2011, 01:00 PM | #43 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,093
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
I run a full synthetic from ams oil, its a 10w40 with zinc in it, I'd recommend using that(its designed for older motors with flat tappet cams) sucks to hear it happened to you
Posted via Mobile Device
__________________
1969 Chevy c20(Miss Hackjob) |
10-19-2011, 02:07 PM | #44 |
Florida Edition
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fruitland Park, FL
Posts: 4,028
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Just found this additive at CarQuest
Lucas Engine Break-in Oil Additive, TB ZINC-PLUS "Addition of 16oz to 4.5 quarts motor oil will achieve approximately 5,000 ppm of Zinc" $13.99 My fresh 70 402 has regular Valvoline 20W-50 in it right now and this Lucas should do until I get it broken in, then..... Thanks again Mike for your thread, and good luck. Brad
__________________
70 GMC Short Stepside "Rose"-An American Beauty: Factory 402/TH400, AM/FM, AC, Tilt, Tach, Buckets, Posi, PS, PB, 3-5 Drop, Complete Resto-Rod 67 C-20 Slant Back Wrecker "Mad Max" 67 C-10 Ratrod "Step-N-Wolf" 71 Serro Scotty Sportsman camper "Scotty" 97 LT1 Z28 "The Hornet" Link to more pics of "Rose" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...p?albumid=1684 Check out my "Cheap Tricks" thread and add to it if you can, lots of good info there. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=489394 |
10-19-2011, 02:22 PM | #45 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the netherlands europe
Posts: 4,335
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Law of Mechanical Repair - After your hands become coated with grease, your nose will begin to itch and you'll have to pee.
makes me think about a question i once saw on a rockcrawler forum ...... he wanted to know how to get bedliner of his little tool )
__________________
i got a job again and having fun at it too idea's for the trucks and the order of things to do are taking shape and get closer to being realized , a few more months and i be able to start building for real i complete 2 of the trucks intoo running fashion one custom and one basicly stock the thirth will be sacrificed for parts |
10-19-2011, 03:38 PM | #46 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ontario, Kali
Posts: 2,427
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
Which Joe Gibbs oil would you recommend should be used on a stock 350 that is only street driven? I went the the website and there seemed to be more than 10 oils on there... Thanx Dano
__________________
'69 Fleet It ain't yours, if you didn't build it! |
|
10-19-2011, 04:08 PM | #47 | |
Just a car guy
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New Washington, IN
Posts: 991
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
Posted via Mobile Device
__________________
1955 belair Blown Pro Street cruiser 1971 Camaro Pro Touring 1973 Vega Drag Car 1970 C20 tow rig |
|
10-19-2011, 05:15 PM | #48 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 173
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Not exactly the answer to the question, but this is the response I got from Joe Gibbs:
Quote:
__________________
1972 C-10 Deluxe 350 V8 - 350TH ------------------------------ We're not the jet set We're the old Chevrolet set |
|
10-19-2011, 10:05 PM | #49 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 165
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Quote:
Try Royal Purple it's got the whole 9 yerds and you can get it at any autoparts store. |
|
10-19-2011, 11:16 PM | #50 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 784
|
Re: An expensive lesson learned
Dave Mann from AMSOl wrote me back with the following:
Hi Paul, Zinc and Zincdithiophosphate (ZDDP) are two totally different chemicals, of many, many chemicals, used in motor oils. Zinc has not been reduced but ZDDP has been reduced as per Federal EPA and automotive manufacturers requirements which have to do with catalytic converters being able to still work properly after 10 years/150,000 miles and still meet the Federal EPA requirements for emissions. ZDDP has been determined to have a negative effect on catalytic converters meeting these EPA requirements. Therefore ZDDP, but not Zinc, has been reduced significantly and in some motor oils replaced with other chemicals equivalent or superior to the performance of ZDDP. I recommend taking a look at a particular motor oils ASTM performance data which is the true measure of how the oil performs irrespective of what the levels of Zinc and or ZDDP and other chemicals are (which are proprietary). In the case of AMSOL the test data shows that AMSOIL outperforms other motor oils in many, and in some motor oils all of the critical test parameters as well as actual field tests and oil analysis testing. For customers that desire an oil for extra wear protection utilizing a high zinc formula use the AMSOIL Z-Rod Synthetic 10W-30, or 20W-50.These two products are excellent for flat tappets, high performance, heavy duty and high mileage applications. See attached data sheet on Z Rod oil. |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|