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#26 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mexico, NY
Posts: 559
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Quote:
Let us know the cylinder head casting #'s when you get a chance. Last week there was a guy asking if he could bolt on a pair of Vortec heads and replace a set of 882 heads. I told he he could but needed to consider the change in compression because the vortec heads were 64cc's vs the larger 74cc's of the 882 heads. I gave an example with flat top pistons with -4cc valve reliefs and a .040" quench clearance the compression was 9.5:1 with the larger heads but jumped to something like 10.5:1 (IIRC) by bolting on the smaller heads. The example I chose sounds like it could resemble your build but obviously just a guess because you don't know your deck height. It wouldn't be uncommon to zero deck a block and run flat top pistons and that head gasket like you have. Just something to be aware of.
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'84 K10, SM465, NP208, 3.42 Gears, 33x12.5-15 GM 4 bolt 880 roller block, 062 Vortec Heads Comp Cams XR258HR-10, MSD Street Fighter HEI Edelbrock: Performer Intake 2116, 1405 Carb Long tube headers, 2.5" duals to Flow Master Super 40's Vortec Engine Build Last edited by Marshy; 10-03-2016 at 12:09 PM. |
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#27 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 51
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Quote:
Original head casting number: 3998991 New heads given to me by machine shop: 3986388
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1972 C/20 LWB, 350/350 |
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#28 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 51
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
I will start going down that checklist, suprachrgd82. Thank you.
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1972 C/20 LWB, 350/350 |
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#29 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Youngstown, OH
Posts: 95
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
I had a valve get stuck in the guide once after an engine rebuild and waiting a few months to fire engine. The valve bent and hung open creating dead cylinder condition. Had to pull head and replace valve and the guide to remedy. check compression to see if a cylinder is way off from others.
Was the water pump replaced? Someone advised check ancillary components or remove them from equation when restarting engine. |
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#30 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mexico, NY
Posts: 559
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Quote:
If you are looking for a boroscope and don't want to spend a lot of money you can buy ones on ebay that connect to your phone. Check this out... http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-5M-7mm-A...nq6Jx8qOrBmASw
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'84 K10, SM465, NP208, 3.42 Gears, 33x12.5-15 GM 4 bolt 880 roller block, 062 Vortec Heads Comp Cams XR258HR-10, MSD Street Fighter HEI Edelbrock: Performer Intake 2116, 1405 Carb Long tube headers, 2.5" duals to Flow Master Super 40's Vortec Engine Build |
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#31 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Alberta
Posts: 464
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Check your dipstick and fuel pump pushrod
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-Cody |
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#32 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 51
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
I have an electric fuel pump so I removed the fuel pump pushrod and installed a plate over the engine opening.
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1972 C/20 LWB, 350/350 |
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#33 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 51
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Quote:
I did not replace the water pump. Just cleaned it, painted it and put it back on.
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1972 C/20 LWB, 350/350 |
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#34 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 267
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Are all the bolts tight on the torque converter? It sounds to me like a rotational issue, not a linear "hammering" issue.
Also, do you have a stethoscope to check location of the noise? I know you don;t want to run it any more than you have to, but in order to find the problem. I think a TC bolt is loose just a bit (or all of them) and they are hitting the lower lip of the back of the block. I think this because it has kind of a "ratchet" sound to it. Good luck.
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1970 GMC K2500 Dis-use is harder on a car than mis-use. |
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#35 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bowser
Posts: 13,622
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
When you adjust the lifters again, remember to do the 'wiggle' the pushrods and not the 'twist' the pushrod method.
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#36 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 51
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Alright, I checked the flex plate and torque converter - both feel solid.
I loosened all rockers up by 1/2 turn and ran the motor. The sound was still there, so I crawled underneath and put my ear right up to the oil pan (I have no stethoscope) and could definitely hear something knocking inside. Looks like I'll be pulling the pan now. I really appreciate everyone's guidance on this so far. ![]()
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1972 C/20 LWB, 350/350 |
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#37 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 267
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
You can use a long screwdriver and press it to your ear and touch it to different areas on the block, valve cover, oil pan, etc.
Did you do anything with the oil pump while you had it out? Did it suck up some debris in the oil pan and the pump screen fell off? It does NOT sound like the crankshaft is hitting anything and does not sound fast enough to be related to the cam (it turns half the speed of the cranks). Distributor not seated Starter dragging or rubbing the flywheel Timing chain rubbing the cover Oil pump shelling out Accessory (AC Pump, Alternator, PS pump) dragging/rubbing/hitting/dry Transmission pump dry (Is there fluid in the transmission?) Parking Pawl dragging inside the transmission Transmission in gear due to improper adjustment.... Too long of a bolt in the TC cover dragging on the teeth of the TC Just spitballing to throw out ideas.......
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1970 GMC K2500 Dis-use is harder on a car than mis-use. |
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#38 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 51
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Quote:
I didn't remove the oil pump but did remove, clean and reinstall the oil pump screen. I guess we will find out if something fell apart after I pull the pan tonight. I have a little over 4 quarts of ATF in right now as I read you should not put all 10 quarts of ATF in, but start with around 4qt, shift through the gears, and then put the rest of the 6qt in. I hope this is correct.
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1972 C/20 LWB, 350/350 |
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#39 |
laying low
![]() Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Searcy, Ark. USA
Posts: 13,267
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
I don't know about the differences between those two head castings but could it be the rockers are binding with the valve rotators? That's an angry sounding noise. It stands to reason the only changes made were the head exchange so this noise should be related to the heads.
How is the oil pressure?
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Boog 69 Chevy stepside, 358/T350, 4.11 posi, 4.5/4 drop, rallys, poboy driver primer is finer 91 Chevy sportside, Tahoe, Yukon & GMC Crewcab All GM..'nuff said. I stand for the flag and kneel at the cross |
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#40 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 51
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Quote:
Oil pressure reads high on the stock gauge. I just added 2 more quarts of ATF (I'm at 6-7qt now) and the sound remained, so I don't think it's the tranny pump.
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1972 C/20 LWB, 350/350 |
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#41 |
laying low
![]() Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Searcy, Ark. USA
Posts: 13,267
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Oil pressure is higher than before the head swap?
Have you run the engine with the valve covers removed to see that all the valves are moving up and down an equal amount and that oil is getting to the top of the rockers? I don't believe that noise is tranny related.
__________________
Boog 69 Chevy stepside, 358/T350, 4.11 posi, 4.5/4 drop, rallys, poboy driver primer is finer 91 Chevy sportside, Tahoe, Yukon & GMC Crewcab All GM..'nuff said. I stand for the flag and kneel at the cross |
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#42 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 51
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Quote:
All rockers seem to be getting good oil flow.
__________________
1972 C/20 LWB, 350/350 |
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#43 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mexico, NY
Posts: 559
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Quote:
If you dropped a valve it would be hammering away. The plug might give you some insight if its off color of has metal flake on it.
__________________
'84 K10, SM465, NP208, 3.42 Gears, 33x12.5-15 GM 4 bolt 880 roller block, 062 Vortec Heads Comp Cams XR258HR-10, MSD Street Fighter HEI Edelbrock: Performer Intake 2116, 1405 Carb Long tube headers, 2.5" duals to Flow Master Super 40's Vortec Engine Build |
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#44 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 51
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Well now things have gotten bizarre. I'm working on removing the oil pan right now. I had 5 bolts out, and while removing the 6th bolt, untainted coolant begins leaking out of the bolt hole.
I have no idea if this is a secondary issue, related to a bad gasket or something, but this is strange. The oil doesn't look to have coolant mixed in, and the coolant doesn't seem to have any oil mixed in.
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1972 C/20 LWB, 350/350 |
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#45 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 51
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Quote:
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1972 C/20 LWB, 350/350 |
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#46 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: TX
Posts: 1,571
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
How bent was the one pushrod? If the cam was messed up underneath that lifter and you put in a new pushrod. Whoever suggested running with the valve covers off could be on to something.
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#47 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ocala,Fl
Posts: 733
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Quote:
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#48 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mexico, NY
Posts: 559
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
Any update?
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'84 K10, SM465, NP208, 3.42 Gears, 33x12.5-15 GM 4 bolt 880 roller block, 062 Vortec Heads Comp Cams XR258HR-10, MSD Street Fighter HEI Edelbrock: Performer Intake 2116, 1405 Carb Long tube headers, 2.5" duals to Flow Master Super 40's Vortec Engine Build |
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#49 |
Still Learning
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central Oklahoma
Posts: 10,108
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Re: First motor start, terrible knocking
That video was hard to watch. Unfortunately, it sounds like some catastrophic damage to a piston or rod bearing or something. I'm hoping to hear good news but dang...
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