63-87 rack and pinion

[robnolimit]

can you post a pict so we can see the issue
'

[C20-67_N_MO]

Too bad I don't have a name of the company or website to check this out.

As I have always wanted to use Rack N' Pinion steering on the 67-72 Chevy Trucks. And since I have a 1970 Chevy I will look into doing this once I get started on my project.

Very good write up robnolimit.

Scott

[Mondo]

Thanks Rob,
My truck is at a shop. I'll have them call you and explain-give you some pics etc.. I'll try to get there and take some pics so we don't leave people here hanging.
It's Freakin Hot here and I'm beat by the time I get home... pics maybe Friday.

I do like the R&P set up and can't wait to drive it. Fired her up with the 5.3 this week too... getting heavy just thinking about it

[Mondo]

Here's a couple pics... This sway bar would of worked with a steering box. The problem is when the rack slides out (while turning) it runs into the sway bar. The bar needs to have a little "S" in it to go lower than the boot (probably level with the A-Arm for travel) and then come back up to mount to the bolt.
I have a 5/7 drop (need to cut bump stop) but even with a 4/6 I think it would still have this problem with any travel like turning to go up a driveway etc..

[blake's first]

the rack looks like its to low in the cross member. I'm looking to put a rack in mine can you check the tow and then jack it up and check the tow and tell me if it changes the rack looks too long

[Mondo]

You can't really put the rack too low; see the first couple pages of this thread. The bracket rests on the cross member. The picture is with the wheel turned until the rack touches the sway bar (which could make it look like the rack is too big).

[blake's first]

measure the stock center link from where the tie rods pivot center to center then measure where the rack pivots are center to center if the rack is longer you need to move the up tell the pivots on the rack are inline with a line from the upper and lower control arm pivots or it will bump steer and that will help you with your sway bar problem google rack and pinion geometry and check it out did you check the tow as it travels ?

[Mondo]

I was hoping that was engineered into the bracket (of course my lowering may affect that)... The truck is at a shop. I'll ask them about it next week.

[blake's first]

maybe I'm wrong but I have been looking at a lot of racks to find the right one the mustang has the right pivots but the pro's say it's not heavy enough the 92-97 tbird is close at 27 inches and would have to be mounted a little higher than the mustang thats 25 inches and the 97 dodge dakota is around 24 inches the stock chevy is 25 inches center to center but the rack you have is around 29 inches the narrower rack would have your steering inside the frame rails too but I have not done it yet I just mounted a cross member to my table so I can start putting the racks that I have in and see how they work
'

[Mondo]

Hopefully Rob will come back on here soon... I read in earlier posts about inch and half raised crossmember but nothing about it having to be done. Maybe that's my issue.

[blake's first]

it's like going to the doctor you need all the opinions you can get but I like to do my home work I 'm under cars all day in a collision shop and have put the tape to a lot of cars and all the lines line up. call around and have peace of mind

[Custom 68]

Wow that looks really low. Are you riding on the bump stops? it looks like you are all the way down on them

[68GMCCustom]

yeah...you can see its riding on the bumpstops...not much travel left there.

[Mondo]

I have the 3in drop springs from CPP (and dropped spindles). Before the upgrade it had stock lower A-arm and tubular upper, it actually drove really well (see previous posts/pics). The ride height is the same so I don't anticipate a problem (we'll cut the bump stop in half)... just that I won't have a sway bar.
I think I have someone that can bend me a knew one..
Worst case, I go up an inch to 4/6

[Custom 68]

I am sure you will get it worked out.
So did you have the R&P setup with the factory lower a-arms? I am super curious on how these things do in real world driving. I would assume you would have the same problem with the factory setup as they look to be close on the mounting points. Is that also the CPP sway bar kit? I am running the stock setup and wondered if the ones with the end links would be better?

[blake's first]

Hey Mondo I called around some more on the rack pivots to learn more and asked Alston engineering about the rack width and like I thought that rack you have is way to long from pivot to pivot it would only work if you moved it up but it would have to go to about the center of the frame so you need a much shorter rack I looked at a friends scoots front set up and all there pivot lines are right on the money most of the guys on here are measuring from tie rod end to end and thats not important its the pivot that are ..they have to line up with a line from the upper and lower control arms pivots if they don't it will eat tires and bump steer.... all interested in rack and pinion should take some time to look up how it works the best

[Mondo]

They're taking the sway bar off today and going to the alignment shop (and A/C shop). I'll know more in a couple days. Rob said he had 3 trucks with thousands of miles on them before putting out the kit. He's pretty heavy (and successful) into autocross with his trucks.. And he's pretty active on this board concerning truck handling, so I'm sure he knows a thing or two about bump steer and rack heights.. I probably just need to raise the truck to get more reasonable R&P angle. I do hope he responds soon. Blake, if you get too small a rack, then wouldn't the steering movement be less left to right; not turn very sharp?

Hey Custom, I had a variable rate steering box before. It seemed they all start out great but get slack in them (had 3 different ones) so really wanted R&P. Yes, that's the CPP sway bar with end links... need that with their tubular A-arm. I was going to go with Porterbuilt's new A-arms but he didn't have any in stock and was going to be several weeks for him to make them. Turns out I could of waited. Might of been a good idea as the best solution would of been getting his drop member. But you know how it is $$$ got to try and cut back somewhere.

[blake's first]

It may not turn as much I dont have it in yet but a tbird turns as well as I well ever need did you ever call any of the other experts like roadster shop .. alstons.. art morrison . .. or some of the rack and pinion builders that do custom racks ... woodward rack and pinion is one.. I have called them all and they all say the same thing have you googled rack and pinion geometry ? I bought a car with the wrong rack in it and it could have got someone hurt I would just like you to know as much as you can about how they work.. you need to hear how good something is from someone that owns it not the one that sells it

[blake's first]

if you can when you take it to get alignment done have them rise it and check the tow and if they can pull it down and check the tow there and see if its close in all three places . and if they can check the ackerman and please let me know so we can all know but if they dont move it up and down you won't know tell you hit a big bump .... but I would love to hear what they say...

[Mondo]

Trust me Blake, no one wants to know how it'll drive more than me. It's my truck! And I know your trying to look out for everyone. While you have doubts about the kit, we ought to give Rob a chance to reply before saying it's crap. Plus the truck hasn't even been out on the road yet...
I'll be honest about my opinion, and if something's wrong, I'll let everyone know. I'll give them a chance to correct it or tell me how as well. Heck, the shop could of done something wrong. But it seems we have all this negativity about something that's not finished. Hopefully it drives great, for a truck, not a race car. I'll let you all know that too. Plus, I'm only one person, so don't put this guy's business in jeopardy, or run out and get this, just on my opinion.
I'll call the shop tomorrow about getting some specs but it may have already been to the alignment shop today..

[blake's first]

sounds good it will be nice to know . I hope it works

[Jon01]

I'm pricing having my box rebuilt, all new steering components, etc...and this is about close enough that it makes sense to just upgrade vs. buying things twice.

Any chance of you selling this kit without the pump and bracketry for those of us who have LS motors?
PM if you like.

[Custom 68]

Jon
this kit does not come with the pump. I understand it is complete minus the pump. I have not checked for sure but I would assume we will need to provide hoses since there are different options people have for their power steering pump.
I too want to do this kit and maybe I will save up enough and get it. For now I am working to make my suspension as good as possible. Then this will be the icing on the cake so to speak.
No limit makes and sells the kit, you can also get it from Brothers it is the same kit.
There are a couple others that now offer this option but I am going to believe Rob at No Limit has the best one due to his extensive research,
good luck
Dave

[Jon01]

Ah gotcha. I thought it came with the p/s pump and bracketry for it. Thanks for clarifying!

[robnolimit]

Sorry for the delay guys. First, the rack looks to be correctly instaled. Blake is correct about the pivit points, or pretty close. Keep in mind that the factory inner pivit points on the center link are not in the best location foor performance geometry. - If they were, everyone would be happy with the OE steering. We use the chevy rack for another reason as well, the rack travel. Mustang and T-Bird racks travel appx 5 1/4" total, or 2 5/8" per side, with the long steering arm on a C10 spindle, that will only turn appx 30 degrees. The chevy rack travels almost 7", and can deliver a full 42 degree steering angle (same as OE stop-to-stop).
The conflict here is with a mix of non OE parts, ours included. A bigger sway bar, with a mount on a tube arm that puts it a little higher than normal. - It's OK, all of this is good stuff. The fix here is a longer swaybar link, that puts the bar OVER the tie rod. ANd, this is better in the handling and ride quality areas too. Short links, and/or strap mounts (OE) tend to bind the swaybar in most of it's travel. Longer links will allow the swaybar and A-arms to move on their designed paths without binding, providing a more 'pure' suspension motion.
It looks like you have all the bushings and washers that you need, try a 3" tube spacer (3/8" sch.40 iron pipe) and a 3" longer bolt should do it.