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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cypress, Tx
Posts: 4,005
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Help!!!! With Timing Chain!!! Need Help Now Please!!!!
Please help clear up something for me! I have been playing hell with my timing lately and decided to take the plung and replace the timing chain (350). I got everything pulled off and am looking at the timing gears and chain right now (only took me 30 min. to get everything off, Dang I'm getting better). Anyways, I understand the whole line up the dots on the new gears idea, but here is where I'm confused:
Obviously the dots on the old gears aren't lined up. And with the gears being different sizes they rotate at different rates. How do I know where to line up the dots on the new set. The chain is really loose and I don't know if it skipped any teeth at any point. how do I know if I am putting the crank and cam out of time when I hook it all up. My truck has not been wanting to start lately and I put a new battery, alt, and starter on. It will start fine with a jump, even though my battery says fully charged. I bought a cloyes true roller timing kit. Please!! Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! I've got to have this truck running again in 3 hours. Shawn
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1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE |
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#2 |
Active Member
![]() Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 249
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With #1 cylinder at top dead center, the dot on each gear should be in the 12 O'clock position.
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69 C10 LWB Project 47 Cushman Scooter Project It is better to have loved and lost than to live with a psycho all your life. ![]() ![]() |
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 4,501
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The dot on the small(crank) gear should be at 12 oclock, and the dot on the big(cam) gear should be at 6 oclock. As long as your crank gear only has one dot, and one keyway slot, then it will be timed right if the dots line up in the 12 and 6 position.
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Wynne 70 CST short fleet Hugger orange & white, 350/350, ps, pb, air, tilt, tach/vac/speedwarning, original buckets, AM/FM, oak bed floor, shoulder belts, 3.5"/5.5" drop, 20" American Racing VN425s. Build thread 53 Chevy shortbed 69 Camaro Click here to subscribe Chevy GMC International Truck Club Louisiana Charter Member http://www.louisianaclassictruckclub.com Last edited by HuggerCST; 11-19-2004 at 02:30 PM. |
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#4 |
Chevy Nuttttt
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Santa Maria Ca.
Posts: 568
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it will make it easer and safer on your valves if you loosen all the rockers and then rotate the motor to tdc. after that turn the cam to match. if using a multi slot crank sprocket be sure you are ligning up the corect marks.
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67' Chev swb step side 69' SS elky 03' Chev ext cab 4X4 hey who lernt me to spell ![]() ![]() |
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#5 |
Active Member
![]() Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 249
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HuggerCST is correct. Looked at my cam installation sheet and that is what it shows. Haynes must have it backwards. My bad.
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69 C10 LWB Project 47 Cushman Scooter Project It is better to have loved and lost than to live with a psycho all your life. ![]() ![]() |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 4,501
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You had me second guessing myself there for a minute, 69chevy!
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Wynne 70 CST short fleet Hugger orange & white, 350/350, ps, pb, air, tilt, tach/vac/speedwarning, original buckets, AM/FM, oak bed floor, shoulder belts, 3.5"/5.5" drop, 20" American Racing VN425s. Build thread 53 Chevy shortbed 69 Camaro Click here to subscribe Chevy GMC International Truck Club Louisiana Charter Member http://www.louisianaclassictruckclub.com |
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#7 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SOMERSET KY.
Posts: 6,427
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![]() HUGGERCST IS RIGHT ON THE MONEY. (QUOTE BY SUPERDUCK) it will make it easer and safer on your valves if you loosen all the rockers and then rotate the motor to tdc. after that turn the cam to match . if using a multi slot crank sprocket be sure you are ligning up the corect marks. (QUOTE) I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU CAN REPLACE THE CAM WHITHOUT LOOSENING THE ROCKERS, REMOVING THE PUSHRODS & LIFTERS??? ![]() (PS) DON'T FORGET TO REMOVE THE FUEL PUMP & F/P PUSHROD.
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junkyardjohn 69 1 TON TOW TRUCK // 84 4WD CUCV BLAZER// 85 1 TON 4WD STAKE TRUCK// 86 M1031 5/4 TON 4WD CUCV// ALOT OF OLD TRUCKS FOR ONE OLD MAN TO DRIVE. ![]() LIFE MEMBER OF P.E.T.A (PEOPLE EATING TASTY ANIMALS) DON'T RENT U-HAUL ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH IT WILL AMAZE PART OF THE PEOPLE & ASTONISH THE REST Last edited by junkyardjohn; 11-19-2004 at 02:48 PM. |
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#8 |
Chevy Nuttttt
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Santa Maria Ca.
Posts: 568
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I may be crazy but isnt he just changing the timing chain?
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67' Chev swb step side 69' SS elky 03' Chev ext cab 4X4 hey who lernt me to spell ![]() ![]() |
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#9 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SOMERSET KY.
Posts: 6,427
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![]() YOUR ABSOLUTLY RIGHT SUPERDUCK. I MUST BE THE ONE WHO IS CRAZY. FOR SOME REASON I THOUGHT HE WAS CANGING THE CAM TOO. SORRY ABOUT THE MISUNDERSTANDING. I SEEM TO CHANGE CAMS IN THESE 350s A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN THE AVERAGE GUY. (I'M ALWAYS TRYING TO FIND THAT 15 HORSE POWER) BUT WHY LOOSEN THE ROCKERS?? ![]() YOU CAN DISREGARD MY WHOLE PREVIOS REPLY EXCEPT THE PART ABOUT HUGGERCST BEING 100% RIGHT ![]() ![]() ![]()
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junkyardjohn 69 1 TON TOW TRUCK // 84 4WD CUCV BLAZER// 85 1 TON 4WD STAKE TRUCK// 86 M1031 5/4 TON 4WD CUCV// ALOT OF OLD TRUCKS FOR ONE OLD MAN TO DRIVE. ![]() LIFE MEMBER OF P.E.T.A (PEOPLE EATING TASTY ANIMALS) DON'T RENT U-HAUL ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH IT WILL AMAZE PART OF THE PEOPLE & ASTONISH THE REST Last edited by junkyardjohn; 11-19-2004 at 03:04 PM. |
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#10 |
Chevy Nuttttt
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Santa Maria Ca.
Posts: 568
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its cool we are all a little
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67' Chev swb step side 69' SS elky 03' Chev ext cab 4X4 hey who lernt me to spell ![]() ![]() |
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#11 |
its all about the +6 inches
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hilliard Ohio
Posts: 2,693
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Why should anything need moved at all?
Bring the engine to #1 TDC, pop off the top gear and chain, remove the lower one with a puller, and re-install. Even if you do have to move one or the other a tad, you still can't mess it up. if the valves are closed, and the piston is all the way up, then nothing jumped. And as far as hard starting...fully charged battery, but needing a jump. Try unplugging the coil (or the 12 volts wire on HEI) and crank it over. If it cranks fine, then you need to back down the timeing. If it is still a bear, then go to auto zone or where ever and have them test your starter. I have had timing chains real loose in the past, and it never effected the starting of the engine. (never had one jump a tooth though) If anything it'll start easier since the cam will be opening the intake valve late, which in turn lets in less air/fuel. Even though the exhaust valve will also be late, the exhaust gasses are forced out with positive displacement of the piston coming up and should leave minimal gasses to cause a high cylinder pressure. If the starter tests fine, and the battery tests fine (have auto zone do that too...it's free, why not?) Then you need to see if the carb is bumping tons of fuel into the cylinder and causing a mild hydro lock condition. Last edited by Longhorn Man; 11-19-2004 at 03:42 PM. Reason: I'm an idiot |
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#12 | |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Waterloo, IA
Posts: 1,147
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Quote:
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'72 Chevy K20 - 383/4sp/205 - SOLD after 41 years in the family Next project - K/5 Tahoe (71 Blazer on 99 Tahoe chassis) Build thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=789958 |
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#13 |
its all about the +6 inches
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hilliard Ohio
Posts: 2,693
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yeah, that's how bad one of mine was. Sounded like marbles being swirled in a coffee can.
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cypress, Tx
Posts: 4,005
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Thanks for all the replies guys!! I got the job all done. I bumped the engine until the old gear dots lined up, then I removed them and installed the new Cloyes true double roller set. After I got it all put back together the truck cranked right up and has cranked up perfect since then (about 6 starts so far.)
Longhorn, I went to autozone and pulled my starter, alternator, and battery in thir parkng lot, after I had them test the system on the truck running. The electrical checked out Good. I turned off the truck and couldn't get it started, so I pulled the above items. I replaced the battery (red top optima with a red top optima free 3 year replacement), replaced the alternator (thier machine was broke, so he couldn't figure out if it was good or not), and had the starter tested and it was good, without excessive draw on start. It started up good, for a couple of days, then nothing again. The chain was so losse it could jiggle back and forth pretty easy on once side, but on the other side seemed tight enough. Hopefully this will fix it all up and I won't have to mess with it again! Shawn
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1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE |
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#15 | |
Fabricate till you "puke"
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ill
Posts: 9,403
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Quote:
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69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears.... |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Killingworth, CT. USA
Posts: 3,378
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I'm with Longhorn Man on this one, if the chain didn't "jump a tooth" you may as well keep looking for the problem.
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1971 C10 swb stepside 350/700R4/3.73posi (retired as of 4/22/03) 1998 S10 short bed 2002 S10 Blazer 1942 Oldsmobile 1958 Massey Harris Pony 1951 Wife Killingworth, Connecticut May those who love us, love us, any of those who do not love us, may God turn their hearts. And if God is unable to turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles so we may know them by their limping. A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; but a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist. |
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#17 |
Watch out for your cornhole !
![]() Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Azle, Texas
Posts: 14,162
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Fellows, look at the big picture here.
Put the bottom gear where the dot is straight up. Now, the upper gear can have the dot installed at either 6 o-clock or 12 o-clock. It doesn't matter which. See, it's a 2 to 1 ratio. If you put it to where both dots are at 12 o-clock and turn the engine one complete turn to where the bottom gear comes back to 12 o-clock, the upper dot will be straight down now. Turn it another turn and the upper dot will be straight up again. And again, and again. The upper gear turns 1/2 turn for every complete turn of the lower gear.
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I'm on the Instagram- @Gearhead_Kevin |
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#18 | |
F.A.S.T. president
![]() Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,883
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Quote:
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F.A.S.T. President and Founder Fabricators for the Advancement of Sawsall Technology "A fear of the Sawsall is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." ~Sigmund Freud, "General Introduction to Psychoanalysis" Last edited by jamis; 11-20-2004 at 09:53 AM. |
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#19 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: S.W. Michigan
Posts: 403
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Quote:
Thats what I wanted to say, just couldn't explain myself so anyone would be able to understand. |
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#20 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 4,501
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Quote:
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Wynne 70 CST short fleet Hugger orange & white, 350/350, ps, pb, air, tilt, tach/vac/speedwarning, original buckets, AM/FM, oak bed floor, shoulder belts, 3.5"/5.5" drop, 20" American Racing VN425s. Build thread 53 Chevy shortbed 69 Camaro Click here to subscribe Chevy GMC International Truck Club Louisiana Charter Member http://www.louisianaclassictruckclub.com |
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#21 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cypress, Tx
Posts: 4,005
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O.K here's an update!!
Very strange thing. I went outside this morning and tried to start the truck. Much to my suprise it wouldn't start. I tried the jumper cable negative thing and it still wouldn't start. Well, I happened to have another Dizzy from the other 350 in the garage and I put that one on, still not a good start. Finally I said what the He!! and put the starter for the other 350 on the truck (keep in mind I already had the starter on the truck tested and it tested good). Went to crank it up and the starter was strong and cranked the truck right up!!! I couldn't beleive it. Every time I have cranked it over and over she fires right up!! I thought the starter was the problem (I've had a similar problem before) but since it tested good I blew it off. Oh well. I changed the alternator (new), the battery(new), the dizzy(fairly new), and the timing chain(new true double roller), and now the starter(fairly new). It seems that this has finally cured the problem At least I know everything eelse is new now and I don't have to worry about them for awhile. If this doesn't fix the problem I don't know what will. The starter is a Pep Boys starter that was bougt in Jan 02. It has a lifetime warranty so it will be going back this week! Thanks again for all the great help guys! Shawn
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1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE |
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